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Forums - Nintendo - Would you rather have the Switch or a powerful conventional Nintendo Home Console that competes with PS & Xbox?

 

Would you rather have the Switch or a powerful conventional Nintendo Home Console that competes with PS & Xbox?

Have a powerful conventio... 14 22.95%
 
Have the Switch as we know it today 47 77.05%
 
Total:61
curl-6 said:
Pemalite said:

Doesn't matter if they are both home consoles, the internals is what matters... Hence my point.

If the mobile hardware is feature-set equivalent to a home console, then supporting two platforms concurrently is rather easy.
Same game, multiple platforms.

And I disagree about the hardware performance divide... The Xbox Series X/S demonstrably demonstrates this really well with many games being more just a difference in resolution, but also differences in texture quality, geometry complexity, ray tracing complexity, shadow quality, draw distances and more.
It's the same game, but they have scaled across different hardware.

There is literally zero need to exclusively develop a game for mobile and another for home console anymore, mobile hardware is feature set equivalent to fixed hardware these days.

The scenario the OP put forth though posits a "powerful" home console; if you're going to make the same games across two platforms anyway, then there is zero reason to make a separate powerful home console because a hybrid already solves the same problem more efficiently.

I 100% disagree.
Having a mobile SoC with just higher clocks is not efficient... The Switch has demonstrated this.

Remember a TV is a larger canvas than a mobile display, you see the limitations in the visual effects far more readily, thus you do tend to need more than just higher clockspeeds to translate it better to a bigger display.
You need more functional units, more bandwidth, more everything... The Switch doesn't do that, so more often than not, Switch games tend to look exactly the same as portable mode, but just at a higher resolution, but still often sub-Full HD... So they look soft, muddy and lack detail.

Sony and Microsoft realized this last generation, hence the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro... And continued down that path with Xbox Series X and S and the Playstation 5/5 Pro.

You do need more than just clockspeeds.




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Pemalite said:
PAOerfulone said:

That's entirely Game Freak and the Pokemon Company's fault. It had nothing to do with the Switch. In fact, if they tried to develop that game within the time constraints they had, on more powerful hardware equivalent to PS4/XOne, it would have turned out so much worse.

And unless they change their approach, that is precisely the direction that Pokemon is headed. 

That's a baseless assertion, that never happened.

I'm really confused by this statement. You're saying PAOerfulone is wrong?? ummm, huh?? Everyone knows they shipped S/V as a buggy messy. Game Freak has refused (so far) to give themselves more time to make the mainline pokemon gen games despite moving from weak handhelds to the Switch. So unfortunately when they went to try to make a big open world game that meant their schedule was way too short and they released a mess. Had nothing to do with the Switch, had everything to do with the fact that they didn't have enough time/resources go into the game. If that game had released year later like it should have been it wouldn't have had the issues it had.

I don't get what you are even referring to as a "baseless assertion" or "never happened". Dude just accurately described the pokemon situation, a situation everyone is well aware of.



Pemalite said:
curl-6 said:

The scenario the OP put forth though posits a "powerful" home console; if you're going to make the same games across two platforms anyway, then there is zero reason to make a separate powerful home console because a hybrid already solves the same problem more efficiently.

I 100% disagree.
Having a mobile SoC with just higher clocks is not efficient... The Switch has demonstrated this.

Remember a TV is a larger canvas than a mobile display, you see the limitations in the visual effects far more readily, thus you do tend to need more than just higher clockspeeds to translate it better to a bigger display.
You need more functional units, more bandwidth, more everything... The Switch doesn't do that, so more often than not, Switch games tend to look exactly the same as portable mode, but just at a higher resolution, but still often sub-Full HD... So they look soft, muddy and lack detail.

Sony and Microsoft realized this last generation, hence the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro... And continued down that path with Xbox Series X and S and the Playstation 5/5 Pro.

You do need more than just clockspeeds.

The audience for a PS/Xbox console isn't the same as for a Nintendo device though.

The fact the Switch is one of the highest selling consoles ever shows most folks are fine with it. Investing all the R&D, money, and other complications of a whole separate system just to output the same games with better settings would be a waste of resources, because the people who care about better graphics are already well served by Playstation and aren't going to buy another console just to play portable games in 4K.

A hybrid already provides both TV and portable play, having separate devices for both is just unnecessary.



curl-6 said:
Pemalite said:

I 100% disagree.
Having a mobile SoC with just higher clocks is not efficient... The Switch has demonstrated this.

Remember a TV is a larger canvas than a mobile display, you see the limitations in the visual effects far more readily, thus you do tend to need more than just higher clockspeeds to translate it better to a bigger display.
You need more functional units, more bandwidth, more everything... The Switch doesn't do that, so more often than not, Switch games tend to look exactly the same as portable mode, but just at a higher resolution, but still often sub-Full HD... So they look soft, muddy and lack detail.

Sony and Microsoft realized this last generation, hence the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro... And continued down that path with Xbox Series X and S and the Playstation 5/5 Pro.

You do need more than just clockspeeds.

The audience for a PS/Xbox console isn't the same as for a Nintendo device though.

The fact the Switch is one of the highest selling consoles ever shows most folks are fine with it. Investing all the R&D, money, and other complications of a whole separate system just to output the same games with better settings would be a waste of resources, because the people who care about better graphics are already well served by Playstation and aren't going to buy another console just to play portable games in 4K.

A hybrid already provides both TV and portable play, having separate devices for both is just unnecessary.

And yet I haven't touched the Switch since finishing TotK...

I would buy a standalone version and more games for the system if it looked less 'fuzzy' on TV.



SvennoJ said:
curl-6 said:

The audience for a PS/Xbox console isn't the same as for a Nintendo device though.

The fact the Switch is one of the highest selling consoles ever shows most folks are fine with it. Investing all the R&D, money, and other complications of a whole separate system just to output the same games with better settings would be a waste of resources, because the people who care about better graphics are already well served by Playstation and aren't going to buy another console just to play portable games in 4K.

A hybrid already provides both TV and portable play, having separate devices for both is just unnecessary.

And yet I haven't touched the Switch since finishing TotK...

I would buy a standalone version and more games for the system if it looked less 'fuzzy' on TV.

Us enthusiasts who care about this stuff are a small fraction of the overall audience though.

Very few people would have bought an entire new console just to play TOTK with a sharper picture, most are either happy to play it as is, or if they care that much about graphics, they wouldn't want to play TOTK in the first place since even at 4K it will never look as good as a AAA PS5 game because it has to run on mobile hardware.



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Slownenberg said:
Pemalite said:

That's a baseless assertion, that never happened.

I'm really confused by this statement. You're saying PAOerfulone is wrong?? ummm, huh?? Everyone knows they shipped S/V as a buggy messy. Game Freak has refused (so far) to give themselves more time to make the mainline pokemon gen games despite moving from weak handhelds to the Switch. So unfortunately when they went to try to make a big open world game that meant their schedule was way too short and they released a mess. Had nothing to do with the Switch, had everything to do with the fact that they didn't have enough time/resources go into the game. If that game had released year later like it should have been it wouldn't have had the issues it had.

I don't get what you are even referring to as a "baseless assertion" or "never happened". Dude just accurately described the pokemon situation, a situation everyone is well aware of.

I am saying that given more powerful hardware, Violet/Scarlett would run better.
And it does.
See: Emulation, Switch overclocking.

The bugs would obviously still exist as that's far removed from hardware performance, that a developer competency issue.

But even outside of Gamefreak there is a long list of Switch games that run poorly unless... You overclock your console or throw it through an Emulator on PC.
See: Digital Foundries countless analysis on the topic with titles like Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom showcases marked performance improvements.

curl-6 said:

The audience for a PS/Xbox console isn't the same as for a Nintendo device though.

The fact the Switch is one of the highest selling consoles ever shows most folks are fine with it. Investing all the R&D, money, and other complications of a whole separate system just to output the same games with better settings would be a waste of resources, because the people who care about better graphics are already well served by Playstation and aren't going to buy another console just to play portable games in 4K.

A hybrid already provides both TV and portable play, having separate devices for both is just unnecessary.

I would argue a large percentage of all consoles share a common userbase as games like Fortnite, Roblox and Minecraft etc' tend to dominate play time on each console.

It's also a poor argument that "sales means people are fine with it".

I am a Switch owner, I own multiple Switch consoles, I am a Switch owner, I contributed to the Switch being one of the best selling consoles of all time...  And I am not fine with it's hardware capabilities, in-fact even before the console released I wasn't happy with it, it could have been 50% faster and use the same amount of power by adopting Pascal instead of Maxwell for it's GPU architecture.
I am happy with the hardware feature set and it's efficiency, I am not happy with it's total performance.

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the console or haven't had a blast with some games like Links Awakening, Breath of the Wild and so forth... But if the only criticism I can level against a platform is poor performance? Then that's a small list of complaints in the grand scheme of things having gamed on consoles with notoriously poor performance in games like on the Playstation 3, Nintendo 64, Xbox One etc'.

Having separate devices means that I don't need to compromise graphics in order to include features that I will never use like: A dock, Joycons, Display, Battery and more. - They can use that extra budget for faster hardware... Or even offer a lower price.

More choice is NEVER a bad thing for consumers.

SvennoJ said:

And yet I haven't touched the Switch since finishing TotK...

I would buy a standalone version and more games for the system if it looked less 'fuzzy' on TV.

It goes to show it's a legitimate issue for many gamers considering HDMI "upscalers" exist to try and clean up the Switch's poor output.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Pemalite said:

I would argue a large percentage of all consoles share a common userbase as games like Fortnite, Roblox and Minecraft etc' tend to dominate play time on each console.

It's also a poor argument that "sales means people are fine with it".

I am a Switch owner, I own multiple Switch consoles and I am not fine with it's hardware capabilities, in-fact even before the console released I wasn't happy with it, it could have been 50% faster and use the same amount of power by adopting Pascal instead of Maxwell for it's GPU architecture.

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the console or haven't had a blast with some games like Links Awakening, Breath of the Wild and so forth... But if the only criticism I can level against a platform is poor performance? Then that's a small list of complaints in the grand scheme of things.

Having separate devices means that I don't need to compromise graphics in order to include features that I will never use like: A dock, Joycons, Display, Battery and more. - They can use that extra budget for faster hardware... Or even offer a lower price.

More choice is NEVER a bad thing for consumers.

I never said it would be a bad thing for consumers; heck, I would buy such a device myself, as I only play in docked mode.

What I'm saying is more that it probably wouldn't be worth it for Nintendo, because such a device would require a huge investment from them while probably selling very little.



Well according to everyone on this site it's already competing with PS and Xbox. In fact, it's not just competing, it's thrashing them! So, the people here really aren't going to appreciate that question. They think that once that switch slides into that dock, it turns into a monstrous and powerful console that is the envy of Sony and Microsoft, even it was only powerful enough to run one big third party release all year. Sonic shadow generations. Doesn't matter to anyone on here though. Who needs third party games?



From a personal perspective for sure the latter though it would be a bad business move for Nintendo of course. With how strong Nintendo's brands are right now I do think a conventional home console from them would have a good shot at outselling the NES since Mario, Zelda, Smash, Pokemon, Animal Crossing etc on the same system makes more of a difference now than it ever has. That would still be small compared to the Switch's success though.



JRPGfan said:
curl-6 said:

Making two separate systems, one home console and one portable, just wasn't viable any more, even with Wii U and 3DS they weren't able to produce enough software for both.

A powerful new console and a next gen portable would've been even worse, and there's no way they'd give up their portable line and go all in on a home console alone when historically their portables have always sold more.

Unifying their product lines, as they did with Switch, was really the only viable path forwards.

You can do that, by haveing the homeconsole be the same as the handheld.

Just cut out the battery/joycons/screen ect...  boom... BOM is 100$ less.
Sell it cheap. The "home" version of the Switch, for the users that don't value the portability factor.
(this could also lead to double dipping, if they first get the home version, then realise they want to get a portable one)

Slownenberg said:

Wman1996 said:

What I want is the following.
-A hybrid that is around base PS4 or more in handheld mode.
-A dock with a chipset that boosts the performance past PS4 Pro approaching Xbox One X territory. Unless the dock is pricey, I don't see it matching or exceeding the speed and GPU of Xbox Series S.
-A modern online infrastructure.
-Give people an TV-only SKU who only want to play on the TV.

yup exactly.

Literally all they need to do (in addition to continuing to pump out tons of amazing games) to have another wildly successful system that everyone is gonna love just like the Switch.

Don't even need a dock chipset though, and in discussions on here in previous years people suggested that wouldn't really be possible anyway because bandwidth between system and dock would be too slow, but I don't know nothing about that. Just handheld performance around PS4/XB1 or slightly better and a Switch-like dock that allows the system to run a faster/hotter to pump the performance up near PS4 Pro levels.

I really hope they haven't even tried to add any sort of new innovation to the system as they typically do. Maybe Switch 3 will need some innovation, but with Switch 2 just give us a straight up successor with better online infrastructure + UX, add GC to NSO Expansion Pack, and add a Home model to the family, and no joycon drift.

I've been thinking about this approach for quite some time, but I think Nin would choose to do the dock or the home console. If Nin has decided to unify their products as much as possible, then they probably won't want to do the dock and console. Switch Lite was a bit of a surprise, but it did make sense because it's not deviating that much from the Switch hybrid. I think if Nin tries to do both that the home console will get the bulk of the sales and that the performance dock won't sell very well. Maybe I'm wrong though. 

If Nin were going to make a Switch 2 hybrid, Lite, and console, then the next question would be, does Nin make a more expensive, powerful enough home console, so it get's the majority of third party games, or do they go for a cheaper console, by just taking the internals of the hybrid and putting them in a Wii-ish sized case (or smaller)?

This I'm unsure of. The cheaper console would bring in new customers who simply couldn't afford Switch or Switch 2, but will those who want a Nin home console again, yet want a powerful enough model to play most third party games, settle for a cheaper, mostly Nin only console? For me personally, if Nin makes a powerful console, it really needs to be something special, otherwise I'll stick with PS. However, if I stuck with PS, and there was a cheap enough Switch 2 home console, I'd certainly entertain the idea of getting one eventually.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.