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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Halo - The New Era Begins

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Pemalite said:
LegitHyperbole said:

I don't believe 343 have it in them to bring Halo back to the highs of the original Trilogy. I very much doubt it'll get back to that unless MS snags some of the Bungie people out from under Sony, provided they are still actually at the studio and haven't lost there touch but with Destiny 2's core gameplay it looks like they still have that X factor but have just lost themselves in the sauce of live service.

Halo: Reach was probably the last super good Halo FPS title.

Halo Wars was a good RTS for a console game... And Spartan Assault was a different take as well.

Halo 4 was a technical showpiece for the Xbox 360 console and gave the Xbox 360 a good send off... But it's Multiplayer and Story left much to be desired, I did like the inclusion of the Prometheans to mix up the flood/covenant stuff that we had experienced already for years.

Chrkeller said:

343 is underrated IMO. I really enjoyed Reach, 4 and Infinite. Perhaps I am remembering wrong, but they were 343 games, no?

Halo 1, 2, 3, ODST and Reach was made by Bungie.
Halo 4, 5 and Infinite were made by 343i.
Halo Wars was made by Ensemble Studios. (One of the best RTS developers... Microsoft closed them.)
Halo Wars 2 was made Creative Assembly.
Spartan Assault and Spartan Strike was made by Vanguard Games... With Spartan Strike being the only Halo game never to release on an Xbox console.
Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary original game code made by Bungie, remaster done by Saber.

Halo: The Master Chief Collection gets tricky... As Saber Interactive did the remaster of Halo 2 with Blur Studios doing the cut-scenes which was incredible, Saber Also did the original Combat Evolved Anniversary Remaster...

343i work involved the combining of all the titles into a single package which ended up being a logistical nightmare, resulting in an absolute unplayable, buggy, terrible mess... Requiring a complete top to bottom rebuild of the set... Microsoft also issued an apology and a free copy of ODST, 1 month of free Xbox Live.

Without a doubt... Bungie made the best Halo FPS games, all of 343i games have fallen short.
Spartan Assault and Spartan Strike were good, albeit short low-budget romps... And Halo Wars 1+2 is a basic, simple, bare-bones, shallow RTS, but has it's charm if you can get around the lack of online population and support.

G2ThaUNiT said:

Same here with how long I've been playing Halo. So many LAN parties back in the day with my classmates.

Here is the kicker... Did you know you can still connect the Original Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One and Xbox Series X and play the original Halo 1+2 over LAN via backwards compatibility on all the consoles still?

I do it with my consoles on the odd occasion... But I also have a ton of PC's so it's easier just to fire those up instead.

LegitHyperbole said:

Nah, We're never getting those days back again. Even if the people at 343 magically raised their talent levels to that of bungie they don't seem to know what a Halo player wants. Best bet for them to make a good Halo game is to remake Combat Evolved and or for a MP game remake all the original trilogy maps and put them in one package. I'd buy a series S for the latter. 

I think that's part of the issue... People are expecting 343i to be like Bungie.
They aren't Bungie and never will be... But 343i also needs to realize this and lean on it's own strengths rather than just trying to stick to a formula or continuously make the same mistakes. (I.E. Lack of Content and expected features with Halo 5 and Infinite on launch.)

One advantage of having their own in-house engine was that they could engineer the engine to the consoles strengths and weaknesses... I.E. Halo 3 used the Tessellation unit (Something Sony didn't have until the PS4) to make Tessellated water effects.
But they also pushed a ton of Alpha Effects which the Xbox 360's insane bandwidth was really amazing at handling.

And Halo 4 they leveraged the extremely flexible shaders on Xbox 360 to implement subsurface scattering on skin to give a very realistic effect... Which ironically is ray tracing.

What did Halo 5 and Infinite do that wowed people to want to buy an Xbox console? It wasn't class-leading graphics, Halo 5 was a terrible looking game and it didn't even have 60fps animations, it was built as a 30fps game.
And Infinite was ridiculed heavily for it's flat texturing and lighting, which forced a delay in it's release.

Technology matters, I just hope that a shift to UE5 isn't going to make the games feel "samey" to all the other UE5 games.

Exactly. They never will be bungie and they'll never capture that lightning in the bottle that bungie has. Wether people are expecting it or not, they just don't have it in them. And graphics performance aren't the problem, it's the core gameplay and how they design the games. Pretty sure that fan base wants a semi linear game with little fluff but one that has core gameplay as addicting and feels as good as Destiny 2 and well designed MP maps to be able to use the perfect fps gameplay against other people. That's it, there's no more to the equation and 343 can't seem to do that. 



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twintail said:

The move to UE5 is kind of disappointing to hear. Less bespoke engines on the market now.

But it should make it easier to port to PS consoles, and to get additional support from other teams also using UE5.

It is disappointing, but an understandable one. I don't remember who said it exactly but it was specifically mentioned in the article when 343 announced they were becoming Halo Studios, that there were components in the Slipspace Engine that were 25 years old. Which is insane to think that such a supposedly modern engine that was made for Infinite had such old technology still in place. 

But yeah, moving to UE5 would absolutely make it easier to port Halo to PS consoles or even the Switch successor. Xbox has triple downed on UE5. Pretty much every Xbox studio is using Unreal Engine. They've gone so far as creating a dedicated tech studio for Undead Labs that specifializes in UE, and then there's The Coalition, a studio that literally assisted Epic in developing UE5. 

So while it's disappointing that UE is lowkey becoming a monopoly in video game development, it's understandable as you can easily find an Unreal Engineer, and as you mentioned, having so many teams that are experts in the engine, will also help speed up game development. 

With the rumored Halo CE remake, that would be a great starting point for Halo going multiplat to bring in audiences at the start of the series, if that is indeed what Xbox's plan is. 



Azzanation said:
JackHandy said:

I was playing Halo before Xbox Live was even a thing, but when Bungie and Marty left, it felt like the soul of the machine left with them. Despite this, I spent years trying to stay in love with the franchise because in my opinion, those games were the best console FPS of all time. But I just can't anymore. It's been too many missteps. Too many attempts to recreate the magic that was Halo 1-3, only to see each one fall short (imo) of that goal. So I'm done. It was a glorious fight, but we finished it. 

Like most trilogies, it always goes down hill, like we have seen with Star Wars or Indiana Jones etc. It's extremely hard to maintain such epic story telling when the best parts of the stories have already been told.

Yes, you are correct. But imo, I'd rather those franchises call it a day than continue. Star Wars should have ended with Return of the Jedi. Indiana Jones should have ended with The Last Crusade. And, likewise, Halo should have ended with Halo 3 because remember, we finished the fight, and the story was told. Bungie left, Marty left, and Halo should have left with them, in my opinion. If Microsoft wanted another huge FPS franchise, they should have hired the best talent and made a whole new one with a whole new story, not kept churning out new games using the Halo name.

That's how I feel about it.



Ryuu96 said:
Chrkeller said:

343 is underrated IMO. I really enjoyed Reach, 4 and Infinite. Perhaps I am remembering wrong, but they were 343 games, no?

They didn't do Reach but I still agree with you. 343's biggest issues were seemingly being unable to put it all together in one package but they did show signs of greatness for each entry in one specific area. For example, Imo, Halo 4 had a great story but the multiplayer was meh. Halo 5 had a meh story but the multiplayer was great, however it was lacking content with missing Forge on launch and a lack of unique maps.

Halo Infinite actually came the closest for me to them putting it all together, a great story, a great multiplayer, the art-style and Chief model is among the best in the series, I'd also say the best Chief in the series, the core gameplay is Halo at its best. Unfortunately they fucked up on content again, a lack of biomes for the campaign, no Forge on launch and they utterly fucked the post-launch support of multiplayer.

When Forge finally arrived, it's by far the best Forge mode ever, the multiplayer at its core is awesome due to the gameplay but it's a multiplayer title and they shit the bed on the post launch support and that's where the vast majority of criticism came from, if they didn't fuck that up then we'd be looking back at 343i differently, they may not have been going through this huge revamp even.

Unfortunate it is too little too late for Infinite to recover but at least they still support it. Halo Infinite's core gameplay is the best in the series. I really hope they don't change that for the sequel, I also hope they don't change the art-style for the sequel or soft-reboot the story once again, Lol. They need to fix their content pipeline (which Unreal Engine should help with).

Also, I really hope they stick with Atriox, he is Imo one of the most interesting Halo villains, I loved him in Halo Wars 2 and Halo Infinite but they didn't have enough of him, his backstory is great and he is more complex of a character than the Prophet of Truth and more badass than Tartarus. He has a lot of potential as a villain. I also loved Didact (he's amazing in the books) but they shit the bed by not keeping him on as a villain and fleshing him out more, Didact should have been the villain in Halo 5 instead and it would have felt more like there was some sort of long-term story plan.

I mostly agree with this, although I think 4 was weak from both a multiplayer and a single-player perspective. The multiplayer in 5 was a return to form but the campaign was the worst in the entire saga.

Infinite should have been the redemption song for 343. And in some ways it is. It finally returned to the open-ended, improvisational action that made Halo so fun to begin with. But, like you said, they fumbled the distribution of the game.

Anyway, I’m hopeful for the next chapter.



LegitHyperbole said:
Pemalite said:

Halo: Reach was probably the last super good Halo FPS title.

Halo Wars was a good RTS for a console game... And Spartan Assault was a different take as well.

Halo 4 was a technical showpiece for the Xbox 360 console and gave the Xbox 360 a good send off... But it's Multiplayer and Story left much to be desired, I did like the inclusion of the Prometheans to mix up the flood/covenant stuff that we had experienced already for years.

Chrkeller said:

343 is underrated IMO. I really enjoyed Reach, 4 and Infinite. Perhaps I am remembering wrong, but they were 343 games, no?

Halo 1, 2, 3, ODST and Reach was made by Bungie.
Halo 4, 5 and Infinite were made by 343i.
Halo Wars was made by Ensemble Studios. (One of the best RTS developers... Microsoft closed them.)
Halo Wars 2 was made Creative Assembly.
Spartan Assault and Spartan Strike was made by Vanguard Games... With Spartan Strike being the only Halo game never to release on an Xbox console.
Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary original game code made by Bungie, remaster done by Saber.

Halo: The Master Chief Collection gets tricky... As Saber Interactive did the remaster of Halo 2 with Blur Studios doing the cut-scenes which was incredible, Saber Also did the original Combat Evolved Anniversary Remaster...

343i work involved the combining of all the titles into a single package which ended up being a logistical nightmare, resulting in an absolute unplayable, buggy, terrible mess... Requiring a complete top to bottom rebuild of the set... Microsoft also issued an apology and a free copy of ODST, 1 month of free Xbox Live.

Without a doubt... Bungie made the best Halo FPS games, all of 343i games have fallen short.
Spartan Assault and Spartan Strike were good, albeit short low-budget romps... And Halo Wars 1+2 is a basic, simple, bare-bones, shallow RTS, but has it's charm if you can get around the lack of online population and support.

Here is the kicker... Did you know you can still connect the Original Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One and Xbox Series X and play the original Halo 1+2 over LAN via backwards compatibility on all the consoles still?

I do it with my consoles on the odd occasion... But I also have a ton of PC's so it's easier just to fire those up instead.

LegitHyperbole said:

Nah, We're never getting those days back again. Even if the people at 343 magically raised their talent levels to that of bungie they don't seem to know what a Halo player wants. Best bet for them to make a good Halo game is to remake Combat Evolved and or for a MP game remake all the original trilogy maps and put them in one package. I'd buy a series S for the latter. 

I think that's part of the issue... People are expecting 343i to be like Bungie.
They aren't Bungie and never will be... But 343i also needs to realize this and lean on it's own strengths rather than just trying to stick to a formula or continuously make the same mistakes. (I.E. Lack of Content and expected features with Halo 5 and Infinite on launch.)

One advantage of having their own in-house engine was that they could engineer the engine to the consoles strengths and weaknesses... I.E. Halo 3 used the Tessellation unit (Something Sony didn't have until the PS4) to make Tessellated water effects.
But they also pushed a ton of Alpha Effects which the Xbox 360's insane bandwidth was really amazing at handling.

And Halo 4 they leveraged the extremely flexible shaders on Xbox 360 to implement subsurface scattering on skin to give a very realistic effect... Which ironically is ray tracing.

What did Halo 5 and Infinite do that wowed people to want to buy an Xbox console? It wasn't class-leading graphics, Halo 5 was a terrible looking game and it didn't even have 60fps animations, it was built as a 30fps game.
And Infinite was ridiculed heavily for it's flat texturing and lighting, which forced a delay in it's release.

Technology matters, I just hope that a shift to UE5 isn't going to make the games feel "samey" to all the other UE5 games.

Exactly. They never will be bungie and they'll never capture that lightning in the bottle that bungie has. Wether people are expecting it or not, they just don't have it in them. And graphics performance aren't the problem, it's the core gameplay and how they design the games. Pretty sure that fan base wants a semi linear game with little fluff but one that has core gameplay as addicting and feels as good as Destiny 2 and well designed MP maps to be able to use the perfect fps gameplay against other people. That's it, there's no more to the equation and 343 can't seem to do that. 

They do have it in them because the gameplay of Halo Infinite is about as close to a Bungie Halo as it can get. If you played it, you would know the gameplay for Infinite is why people even kept playing as long as they have because it's damn good. It's the other problems it had like missing content and long delays between new content.



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smroadkill15 said:
LegitHyperbole said:

Exactly. They never will be bungie and they'll never capture that lightning in the bottle that bungie has. Wether people are expecting it or not, they just don't have it in them. And graphics performance aren't the problem, it's the core gameplay and how they design the games. Pretty sure that fan base wants a semi linear game with little fluff but one that has core gameplay as addicting and feels as good as Destiny 2 and well designed MP maps to be able to use the perfect fps gameplay against other people. That's it, there's no more to the equation and 343 can't seem to do that. 

They do have it in them because the gameplay of Halo Infinite is about as close to a Bungie Halo as it can get. If you played it, you would know the gameplay for Infinite is why people even kept playing as long as they have because it's damn good. It's the other problems it had like missing content and long delays between new content.

The difference between 343 and Bungie seems small but it's the difference between great and exceptional. You pick up Destiny 2 and it instantly feels incredible. The difference might be small in length but there is a vast casm between them.



LegitHyperbole said:
smroadkill15 said:

They do have it in them because the gameplay of Halo Infinite is about as close to a Bungie Halo as it can get. If you played it, you would know the gameplay for Infinite is why people even kept playing as long as they have because it's damn good. It's the other problems it had like missing content and long delays between new content.

The difference between 343 and Bungie seems small but it's the difference between great and exceptional. You pick up Destiny 2 and it instantly feels incredible. The difference might be small in length but there is a vast casm between them.

Have you played Halo Infinite? Destiny Bungie and Halo Bungie are very different teams. Destiny and Halo play very differently so I'm not sure how you can really compare. 

Last edited by smroadkill15 - 5 days ago

smroadkill15 said:
LegitHyperbole said:

Exactly. They never will be bungie and they'll never capture that lightning in the bottle that bungie has. Wether people are expecting it or not, they just don't have it in them. And graphics performance aren't the problem, it's the core gameplay and how they design the games. Pretty sure that fan base wants a semi linear game with little fluff but one that has core gameplay as addicting and feels as good as Destiny 2 and well designed MP maps to be able to use the perfect fps gameplay against other people. That's it, there's no more to the equation and 343 can't seem to do that. 

They do have it in them because the gameplay of Halo Infinite is about as close to a Bungie Halo as it can get. If you played it, you would know the gameplay for Infinite is why people even kept playing as long as they have because it's damn good. It's the other problems it had like missing content and long delays between new content.

I finished Infinite (short game sadly) and while the game play was fun, in the end I was only doing grapple hook punch kills. I hardly bothered with the guns after the 'open' world part was over.

I did enjoy the art style a lot, served up by the bespoke engine, so more hesitant to an Unreal 5 switch. Infinite had some very cool lighting.

(I'm not into multiplayer, so this is purely about the campaign)



G2ThaUNiT said:

Why is everyone still mentioning 343 as if they exist anymore? Everyone that led 343 throughout these tumultuous years and missteps are now gone. 343 doesn't exist anymore. The whole point of this thread being "The New Era Begins" is because this is a completely fresh new start for the studio.

New leadership from top to bottom, a LOT of new creative leads since the entire creative team was laid off, new tech, and from what's been said so far, a new concept on making Halo games. Which I imagine stems from not having to create and maintain their own internal engine now.

343 was always good from a gameplay perspective, like 343's Halo games always felt good to play. So they have talented gameplay developers. Infinite's gameplay in particular is fantastic. So what I'm personally hoping for now with Halo Studios is an entirely new group of leadership and creatives that know Halo and want to bring back those epic stories that all of us fondly remember from Bungie's Halo days.

New names, all look the same, all speak the same.

You're welcome to buy into this blatant marketing scheme (which is basically just the Infinite sales pitch 2.0), other people are welcome to feel indifferent.

Halo was a massive part of my adolescence, I have no problem leaving it there and moving on. They haven't proven they can recreate what made this franchise special and there's no reason outside of blind optimism to believe they ever will.

I have no expecations but good luck to them.



Shaunodon said:
G2ThaUNiT said:

Why is everyone still mentioning 343 as if they exist anymore? Everyone that led 343 throughout these tumultuous years and missteps are now gone. 343 doesn't exist anymore. The whole point of this thread being "The New Era Begins" is because this is a completely fresh new start for the studio.

New leadership from top to bottom, a LOT of new creative leads since the entire creative team was laid off, new tech, and from what's been said so far, a new concept on making Halo games. Which I imagine stems from not having to create and maintain their own internal engine now.

343 was always good from a gameplay perspective, like 343's Halo games always felt good to play. So they have talented gameplay developers. Infinite's gameplay in particular is fantastic. So what I'm personally hoping for now with Halo Studios is an entirely new group of leadership and creatives that know Halo and want to bring back those epic stories that all of us fondly remember from Bungie's Halo days.

New names, all look the same, all speak the same.

You're welcome to buy into this blatant marketing scheme (which is basically just the Infinite sales pitch 2.0), other people are welcome to feel indifferent.

Halo was a massive part of my adolescence, I have no problem leaving it there and moving on. They haven't proven they can recreate what made this franchise special and there's no reason outside of blind optimism to believe they ever will.

I have no expecations but good luck to them.

It absolutely is a blatant marketing scheme as this new leadership hasn’t made any games yet. The only thing they’ve shown up to this point is a concept.

But it’s a highly disingenuous take to try to pass it off as “Infinite sales pitch 2.0” because, again, no 343 leadership role in any capacity is at this studio.

All the people that sold us on the original Infinite sales pitch are literally no longer there. So just passing them off before they’ve even had a chance to prove themselves because you’re already comparing them to their predecessors just rubs me the wrong way. None of the leadership or the lead creatives at this newly refreshed studio have made their own Halo game before.

Idk what to expect because they haven’t made a Halo game yet. So I don’t have any expectations because I don’t have anything to base it on. So, I can only be hopeful that they’re able to deliver on their first attempt.