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Forums - Politics Discussion - Are we on the early stages of World War 3. (Poll)

 

We are in the early stages of World War 3...

Yes 16 28.07%
 
No 41 71.93%
 
Total:57
SvennoJ said:
LegitHyperbole said:

You jokers. The military budget is less than 1 trillion. Ya had me going there, they literally can't keep it up indefinitely and keep their military in tip top shape at the same time unless someone in governemnt moves funds around and like in 2001 2.3 trillion goes missing which I believe could happen and probably would happen in the face of Isreal not having the dome stocked but they won't keep it up for long before the public find out.

These wars are weakening the US especially if shit kicks off in the SCS. Probably the goal with Ukraine was China draining the US of resources. 

The wars are not weakening the US, they are strengthening the US' war machine.

The money goes back to the US' weapon manufacturers. The aid part of those extra expenses is in the millions, the billions are for military equipment, bought from and provided by the US.

The wars are weakening the people living in the US, as they foot the bill. Last time I calculated it, it was about $100 per tax payer for Israel's wars and $400 per tax payer for Ukraine.

The military-industrial complex is the winner.

So your telling me if they have to fight in the South China Sea, let's say one year from now, they will be stronger for it having to keep Ukraine and Isreal going? Explain how this works.



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LegitHyperbole said:
Ryuu96 said:

Not even close.

America has sent 0.347% in equipment value as a % of their total GDP to Ukraine, the vast majority of which being old equipment that was being replaced anyway and largely consisting of land-based equipment. In a hypothetical scenario, America wouldn't be fighting China with Abrams and Bradleys, they'd be fighting them via the seas and skies, of which they've sent fuck all of those to Ukraine, Lol. Seas is understandable as nobody can send Ukraine naval equipment due to Türkiye closing the strait but America hasn't even sent Ukraine a single F-16 and they're on F-35, Lol.

As for the title, no I don't think we're in the early stages of WW3.

Give me a percentage of military budget, two years for Ukraine and one year for Isreal.

I'm not sure for Israel as I don't follow it closely but it's an important distinction to make that Israel is buying a lot of American equipment, like Taiwan buys American equipment or Poland or any other country, I don't really think even if I could find a total for Israel it would be worth comparing to Ukraine whose equipment is almost entirely free.

America's most recent military budget was $849bn for the fiscal year. Ukraine's aid amounts to around $61bn and theoretically lasts for around a year, therefore that would amount to roughly 7.2% of the $849bn passed military budget...However, I'm not actually 100% sure that Ukraine's $61bn is part of the $849bn military budget or counted as a separate thing because it's voted as a separate bill.

Maybe an American can confirm?

You said though that Ukraine and Israel are sucking the funds out of America but it isn't close to the truth, even if we only use military budget because Ukraine would only be 7.2% and Israel largely buys a lot of their equipment. Also, the vast majority of aid "sent" to Ukraine stays in America as billions of it is used to replace American stock after they send Ukraine the old stock destined for scrap in the next ~10-15 years.

So America sends Ukraine old shit that would have been scrapped anyway and billions in the passed Ukraine aid package is instead used to replace that stock with new equipment that Ukraine doesn't get, lets for example use Bradley's as an example, America has sent Ukraine ~300 but they have literally thousands in storage and Bradley is being replaced by XM30.

America is ranked #17 as a % of GDP for aid sent to Ukraine but America has a military budget bigger than China and Russia combined, heck, throw a few other countries on that list too and America would still be beating them all combined. Also, like I said, America would fight China using ships and planes, none of which they've sent to Ukraine and they have one of the largest air-forces and naval-forces in the world still.

China's modern military isn't even battle-tested, it's all on paper right now, Russia has shown us something though, America massively overestimated Russia's military capabilities and could probably easily kick their ass even with half the military budget they have right now, but of course, America's military budget never was for only Russia, it was always designed for two adversaries; Russia and China.



Mar1217 said:

Different period but there are parallels to set upon what happened during the years of the Cold War and what we are currently living through today.

Multiple armed conflicts in highly tension zones like Ukraine, the ME and Asia with Taiwan/China, etc ...

It wouldn't take THAT much for a global war to start out but also due to economics and the global market, everyone would suffer from it if they were to actually act upon it so it becomes quasi unlikely.

The deterrent are too strong for anyone to truly make the "dynamite go boom".

A Cold War. Indeed. But I can't see how it stays cold when land is a the center of the issue, it's not like the cold War in that regard, they're not civil wars. These are wars for land outside of the countries pursuing these conflicts, they can't stay cold. If Taiwan is the next on the list of invasions the best we can hope for is for it to be fought in the air and sea. 



LegitHyperbole said:
SvennoJ said:

The wars are not weakening the US, they are strengthening the US' war machine.

The money goes back to the US' weapon manufacturers. The aid part of those extra expenses is in the millions, the billions are for military equipment, bought from and provided by the US.

The wars are weakening the people living in the US, as they foot the bill. Last time I calculated it, it was about $100 per tax payer for Israel's wars and $400 per tax payer for Ukraine.

The military-industrial complex is the winner.

So your telling me if they have to fight in the South China Sea, let's say one year from now, they will be stronger for it having to keep Ukraine and Isreal going? Explain how this works.

The South China Sea

****SEA****

What do you think America will use to fight a war on the seas?

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 23 September 2024

Ryuu96 said:
LegitHyperbole said:

So your telling me if they have to fight in the South China Sea, let's say one year from now, they will be stronger for it having to keep Ukraine and Isreal going? Explain how this works.

The South China Sea

****SEA****

How do you think America's fighting a war on the sea?

It won't be as simple as that, The moment Taiwan is put in jeopardy or God knows if China manage to invade then shit goes wild real fast, so many countries are going to be extremely pissed from Japan down to Austrailia, many are in Chinas pocket. A lot of Islands there it becomes a real mess on the map. But...yes. We can hope that it stays naval but we just don't know how it'll shake out. How did they fight World War 2 in the same sea? It wasn't just confined to naval and Air warfare. 



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Germany's chancellor has done a great job at escalation management, but his days in office are limited. He'll likely make it to the finish line in September 2025 when Germany elects its next government, but he has absolutely no chance of winning again. In the three most recent regional elections in Germany, Putin-friendly political parties have combined for roughly 45% in each one. The writing is on the wall.

As history has taught us, World Wars are started by the Germans.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

LegitHyperbole said:
Mar1217 said:

Different period but there are parallels to set upon what happened during the years of the Cold War and what we are currently living through today.

Multiple armed conflicts in highly tension zones like Ukraine, the ME and Asia with Taiwan/China, etc ...

It wouldn't take THAT much for a global war to start out but also due to economics and the global market, everyone would suffer from it if they were to actually act upon it so it becomes quasi unlikely.

The deterrent are too strong for anyone to truly make the "dynamite go boom".

A Cold War. Indeed. But I can't see how it stays cold when land is a the center of the issue, it's not like the cold War in that regard, they're not civil wars. These are wars for land outside of the countries pursuing these conflicts, they can't stay cold. If Taiwan is the next on the list of invasions the best we can hope for is for it to be fought in the air and sea. 

Humans have change quite a bit since WW2.  What large scale wars have China fought and won lately, do you really think China wants to test their inexperienced army in a WW?  The UK has completely changed from a hundred plus years ago and are pretty peaceful people.  All of the USA allies are peaceful for the most part, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, most of Europe, Japan etc. (not so much Israel).  China and the USA depend on each other so much for trade, that neither will ever want war with each other.  Anyone that would try and attack America in the USA would lose, it's too big.  Same with China, if anyone tried to attack China on Chinese soil they would lose.



RolStoppable said:

Germany's chancellor has done a great job at escalation management, but his days in office are limited. He'll likely make it to the finish line in September 2025 when Germany elects its next government, but he has absolutely no chance of winning again. In the three most recent regional elections in Germany, Putin-friendly political parties have combined for roughly 45% in each one. The writing is on the wall.

As history has taught us, World Wars are started by the Germans.

That is flat-out wrong!

Spoiler!

They get started by Austrians.

The first one by some Austrians dying, the second one by some Austrian painter sadly not dying



Ryuu96 said:
LegitHyperbole said:

Give me a percentage of military budget, two years for Ukraine and one year for Isreal.

I'm not sure for Israel as I don't follow it closely but it's an important distinction to make that Israel is buying a lot of American equipment, like Taiwan buys American equipment or Poland or any other country, I don't really think even if I could find a total for Israel it would be worth comparing to Ukraine whose equipment is almost entirely free.

America's most recent military budget was $849bn for the fiscal year. Ukraine's aid amounts to around $61bn and theoretically lasts for around a year, therefore that would amount to roughly 7.2% of the $849bn passed military budget...However, I'm not actually 100% sure that Ukraine's $61bn is part of the $849bn military budget or counted as a separate thing because it's voted as a separate bill.

Maybe an American can confirm?

You said though that Ukraine and Israel are sucking the funds out of America but it isn't close to the truth, even if we only use military budget because Ukraine would only be 7.2% and Israel largely buys a lot of their equipment. Also, the vast majority of aid "sent" to Ukraine stays in America as billions of it is used to replace American stock after they send Ukraine the old stock destined for scrap in the next ~10-15 years.

So America sends Ukraine old shit that would have been scrapped anyway and billions in the passed Ukraine aid package is instead used to replace that stock with new equipment that Ukraine doesn't get, lets for example use Bradley's as an example, America has sent Ukraine ~300 but they have literally thousands in storage and Bradley is being replaced by XM30.

America is ranked #17 as a % of GDP for aid sent to Ukraine but America has a military budget bigger than China and Russia combined, heck, throw a few other countries on that list too and America would still be beating them all combined. Also, like I said, America would fight China using ships and planes, none of which they've sent to Ukraine and they have one of the largest air-forces and naval-forces in the world still.

China's modern military isn't even battle-tested, it's all on paper right now, Russia has shown us something though, America massively overestimated Russia's military capabilities and could probably easily kick their ass even with half the military budget they have right now, but of course, America's military budget never was for only Russia, it was always designed for two adversaries; Russia and China.

I just wanna address two things here, the rest I'm not knowledgeable enough to talk on. You said the US has more military budget than China but we don't know China's true spending, it's all calculated from what can be seen as them spending but even those calculations are pretty high, half a trillion so half the US budget. They have much shrouded in secret, their Nuclear weapons programme for one and it wouldn't surprise me should they keep a lot of other R&D secret too.

Second thing, China has so many more fighting age men it's unbelievable. Even if there was a draft in the US they'd still have so, so many more. Not to mention so many US men will fail bootcamp for many reasons. If China wants to invade, they don't need military equipment, they need able bodied men and they have a lot of them and a lot tougher too than the US where so many are over weight. 



RolStoppable said:

Germany's chancellor has done a great job at escalation management, but his days in office are limited. He'll likely make it to the finish line in September 2025 when Germany elects its next government, but he has absolutely no chance of winning again. In the three most recent regional elections in Germany, Putin-friendly political parties have combined for roughly 45% in each one. The writing is on the wall.

As history has taught us, World Wars are started by the Germans.

😆 

It'd be remarkably funny if that turned out to be the case. Germany was already involved early with the pipeline though, so already partly true (if we are early in WW3).