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Forums - Politics Discussion - 2024 US Presidential Election

EricHiggin said:
curl-6 said:

So long as the left decides to double down and learn nothing, they will continue to lose people.

Now is the time for introspection and change, for rethinking how the left can reach those outside their bubble.

By all means, keep screaming at anyone who disagrees with leftist ideology, but then don't act surprised if they vote against you.

I remember a post during the 2020 election, that said if the independents and the center left want the Democrat party to legitimately come back closer to center, that instead of them sitting at home and allowing Trump to win by default like in 2016, that they were going to need to get up and vote for Trump, however difficult that may be for them to swallow. Not in perpetuity, but for long enough to force the Dems to pay attention and shift their course in a more reasonable direction.

The thought behind this was that as long as the Dems could say they had the popular vote, they and many of their voters, were going to be convinced that they could continue governing in the direction they had been, more and more left, and that they just had to campaign smarter and harder during the elections. This meant they were never going to learn the lesson they should've in 2016.

That post got swarmed and that member got told by many that they 'knew what they were up to' and that 'they, nor anyone else, was going to fall for it'. As per the 2020 results, apparently they, nor the independents or center left, 'fell for it', whatever diabolical plan it was behind, supposedly.

Well it actually finally happened, to a degree, the first step you could say, and now here we are. Are the left going to finally realize that member had a strong point, or are they going to keep their blindfolds on and deny what's staring them in the face? How many elections going forward is it going to take?

Pretty sound advice from my point of view (the initial post).

I am not sure what the logical reasoning is but people on the left come across insanely aggressive even to those who agree with them on a large number of issues. 



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RolStoppable said:

If you want to insist that it was mockery of betting firms, then you also have to acknowledge that it must have been mockery of pollsters at the same time. After all, I didn't regard polls as accurate.

Remember the following post from Sept. 13 (Page 79 of this thread, 4th down)

RolStoppable said:
Ryuu96 said:

This is the easiest election in US history, ever. But somehow Trump still polls above 40% without any problems. The polls are rigged.

LMAO !!!



sundin13 said:
LurkerJ said:

The stories covered by Vaush in this clip are wild. 

Apparently Biden’s internal polling was showing a loss of 400 electoral votes when he was insisting he was the only who could beat Trump and decided to run again?

I get why the left has no interest in nuanced discussions since the dems got wiped out, however, only 175k votes were required to flip Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin to Harris’s favour (last I read).

If Biden did things differently it’s not hard to see how 175k votes could’ve gone differently the outcome was different. 

Assuming that story is accurate, why do people think that Dems would have done significantly better given a longer campaign? A shorter campaign helps maintain enthusiasm and allows the candidate to run a campaign focused on the general election instead of having to pivot after the primary. 

My take is that Dems were doomed from the start because of idiots not understanding the economy. 

Sorry, that is a massively bullshit take. First of all, you find reasons why the Dems were doomed from the start. But the truth is, that in every election you will find reasons that are unfortunate for one party or another. So why not pack it in from the start, why raise 1 billion dollar from donors, who probably could use it better? Nah, you can win every election. Is it hard? You bet it is, but even if the basics are in your favor.

A longer campaign may not seem so fresh, but political stances are often pretty set in stone. A longer campaign helps to slowly grind away at these positions, a longer campaigns helps to solidify talking points that are beneficial for a party. The republicans did that, you see they always were on about border policies and immigrants. This sets in over time so that even for people who at the start didn't take this topic too seriously will think it is a serious issue at the end. That is what a long campaign does for you. If you set the talking points (which I would argue the democrats also did badly by choosing talking points that were irrelevant for a majority of people).

And you all have to stop calling people idiots who are different from you. Do you really think calling everyone idiots will make them vote your way the next time?

But the biggest blunder is blaming people not understanding economy. Bernie Sanders said 60% of americans live paycheck to paycheck. What does understanding the economy help these people exactly? Living paycheck to paycheck is a majorly shitty situation and all your insight into worldwide economic development doesn't help.

Let's make up a story. What if, the Democratic presidency instead of telling everyone to suck it up because worldwide economic situation is bad, would be understanding of the problems the working class people face. What if they create programs to help the people that are poor and are hardest hit? What if they supported their people instead of big corporations? Well, Democrats would win the presidency, many terms in succession. They would withstand the sirens call of fascism while the rest of the world gives in and elects or nearly elects fascist governments.

How do I know this? I know this, because this isn't a hypothetical about now, it is a history lesson. The world was hit by a major economic crisis about a hundred years ago. President Franklin D. Roosevelt created programs to help the working americans like the New Deal. The result was that FDR won four consecutive terms as president and the US withstand fascism while most of the world became fascist regimes.

So stop telling people to suck it up, stop telling them they "need to understand the economy", instead do something to help these people, and please for the love of god stop telling working class people they are idiots and start taking them seriously. Because they may have a different live path than you, but that doesn't mean you are in any way better than them.

EDIT: And because I know that people will come in here and scream at me: WHY DO YOU NOT CRITICIZE THE RIGHT? Simple answer: criticizing is a way to make better, and I am not here to improve the right. They are doing well enough on their own, probably because some strategists have recognized things I said here and used it in their favor. Or maybe they just lucked out. I don't know. But they don't need my help and I am unwilling to give them help.

Last edited by Mnementh - 2 days ago

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Mnementh said:
sundin13 said:

Assuming that story is accurate, why do people think that Dems would have done significantly better given a longer campaign? A shorter campaign helps maintain enthusiasm and allows the candidate to run a campaign focused on the general election instead of having to pivot after the primary. 

My take is that Dems were doomed from the start because of idiots not understanding the economy. 

Sorry, that is a massively bullshit take. First of all, you find reasons why the Dems were doomed from the start. But the truth is, that in every election you will find reasons that are unfortunate for one party or another. So why not pack it in from the start, why raise 1 billion dollar from donors, who probably could use it better? Nah, you can win every election. Is it hard? You bet it is, but even if the basics are in your favor.

A longer campaign may not seem so fresh, but political stances are often pretty set in stone. A longer campaign helps to slowly grind away at these positions, a longer campaigns helps to solidify talking points that are beneficial for a party. The republicans did that, you see they always were on about border policies and immigrants. This sets in over time so that even for people who at the start didn't take this topic too seriously will think it is a serious issue at the end. That is what a long campaign does for you. If you set the talking points (which I would argue the democrats also did badly by choosing talking points that were irrelevant for a majority of people).

And you all have to stop calling people idiots who are different from you. Do you really think calling everyone idiots will make them vote your way the next time?

But the biggest blunder is blaming people not understanding economy. Bernie Sanders said 60% of americans live paycheck to paycheck. What does understanding the economy help these people exactly? Living paycheck to paycheck is a majorly shitty situation and all your insight into worldwide economic development doesn't help.

Let's make up a story. What if, the Democratic presidency instead of telling everyone to suck it up because worldwide economic situation is bad, would be understanding of the problems the working class people face. What if they create programs to help the people that are poor and are hardest hit? What if they supported their people instead of big corporations? Well, Democrats would win the presidency, many terms in succession. They would withstand the sirens call of fascism while the rest of the world gives in and elects or nearly elects fascist governments.

How do I know this? I know this, because this isn't a hypothetical about now, it is a history lesson. The world was hit by a major economic crisis about a hundred years ago. President Franklin D. Roosevelt created programs to help the working americans like the New Deal. The result was that FDR won four consecutive terms as president and the US withstand fascism while most of the world became fascist regimes.

So stop telling people to suck it up, stop telling them they "need to understand the economy", instead do something to help these people, and please for the love of god stop telling working class people they are idiots and start taking them seriously. Because they may have a different live path than you, but that doesn't mean you are in any way better than them.

Excellent post.  Just well said my friend.  Exactly right.  



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Trump Picks Kristi Noem to Lead Homeland Security, CNN Reports

"Donald Trump is tapping South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem to head the Department of Homeland Security, CNN said, selecting a loyalist once seen as a potential vice presidential candidate for a job that includes securing the US border and carrying out a promised mass deportation.

Noem would join Tom Homan, Trump’s pick for White House “border czar,” and Stephen Miller, an immigration hardliner, in the administration after the president-elect takes office Jan. 20, CNN said, citing two people familiar with the decision who it didn’t identify. Unlike Homan and Miller, however, Noem’s position requires Senate confirmation."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-picks-kristi-noem-to-lead-homeland-security-cnn-reports/ar-AA1tVpUg?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=8667a7b4cdc345b48163f313ff6c3c8a&ei=11



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Another good take:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrbcIu3Sh5U



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"Vice President Kamala Harris’s resounding defeat at the hands of former President Donald Trump is not only a rejection of the Democratic Party and what it stands for, but also of the mainstream media, and the narrative they created for Harris. 

Why is that? Quite simply, because both Harris and Democrats fundamentally mistook the mood of the electorate. The mainstream media went along with the illusion that Harris and the Democrats operated under, despite substantial evidence to the contrary. 

Specifically, Democrats came to believe that by turning over the campaign to Harris’ “new way forward” and “politics of joy,” without a primary process or any serious discussion of the issues, they could somehow circumvent two key facts about the electorate. The first was that President Biden’s approval rating (36 percent per CNN) rivaled that of former President Jimmy Carter on the eve of his overwhelming 1980 loss to Ronald Reagan (37 percent per Gallup polling). 

Second, the share of voters believing the country is headed in the “right direction” was nearly identical between that 1980 election and the 2024 election, and not in Democrats’ favor. Less than one-fifth (17 percent) of Americans felt that way in a pre-election Ipsos poll, and a similar 20 percent said the same ahead of the 1980 election, according to the Roper Center. 

Taken together, the fact that the American people wanted a new direction, new policies, and new leadership, doomed Democrats in 1980 as it doomed Kamala Harris this week."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/opinion-how-kamala-harris-and-the-media-got-it-so-wrong/ar-AA1tSTVZ?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=96bebebf354746f58ec093a330d59bb1&ei=15



I wanted to point out another weakness of the Harris Campaign.

One of Biden's big talking points was the cancellation of student loan debt. I think many younger people were mobilized and ended up voting for something that would actually affect them personally. Biden ended up failing to uphold his promise for mass cancellation of the student loan debt. Harris couldn't talk about it, and didn't have a talking point nearly as strong as that. Not only was trust in a democrat president eroded, but also trust in any president since the Republicans were clearly against the cancelling of student loan debt. Thus, turnout ended up worse.

I think the next candidate needs to come up with another impossible promise like that to get turnout to be as great as it was in 2020.



https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/school-classes-canceled-support-offered-to-students-following-trump-win/vi-AA1tU91H?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=5f1f8ed20a324b35d9e2a34f899e7b1c&ei=19

LMAO !!!



BFR said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/school-classes-canceled-support-offered-to-students-following-trump-win/vi-AA1tU91H?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=5f1f8ed20a324b35d9e2a34f899e7b1c&ei=19

LMAO !!!

Seems like a small thing, but I personally believe crap like that is pushing middle America to GoP.  Middle America really doesn't like the "snowflake" attitude.  

I wasn't happy at all with the results and went to work the next day.

edit

60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, many doing hard backbreaking work...  and a bunch of kids at Ivy League are too upset to go to class.  I can only imagine what most Americans think of that nonsense.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - 2 days ago

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