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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom out now on Switch

Slownenberg said:
RolStoppable said:

The game I would call the most comparable to Echoes of Wisdom is Paper Mario: The Origami King. All the ingredients for a great game are there, but one boneheaded decision regarding the core gameplay drags everything down. For TOK it was the removal of RPG staples like EXP and combat abilities during the turn-based battles which were all already proven to work splendidly in the first two Paper Mario games. For EoW it's the removal of the sword (or any conventional weapon, because Zelda could have been given something other than a sword).

Due to the lack of a weapon, EoW feels all too often like you have to take an extra step to get something done. Instead of hitting an enemy directly, you have to summon something. At its core it's also absolutely idiotic to advertise a game as offering so many choices when the most basic and obvious choice is being taken away from the player. There's no "you can play this game like you want" like in Breath of the Wild, here it's a "you have to play it like we want you to." This culminates in the final phase of the story where

Spoiler!
Link comes on the team and takes his weapons back. He then assists you up to and including the final battle where the developers rub it in your face what this game could have been if you were ever given full control of a sword, bow and bombs. You play as Zelda and summon dumb monsters while Link does most of the work and you just watch him go wild.

It's so infuriating.

What's left is a decent to good game which is not the level of quality you'd like to see and expect from a Zelda game. This is the kind of Zelda that Aonuma would love to make until the end of time. It becomes glaringly obvious when

Spoiler!
you tackle the sleep challenges in Kakariko Village. The ones where you can use the sword have extremely generous time limits whereas the ones where you can't use your sword require you to plan carefully if you want the extra bonus for not only beating the target time, but also doing it especially fast. It's as if this made for people who have a very hard time with action-based gameplay, i.e. Eiji "I can't beat the first dungeon in the original Zelda" Aonuma.

Top-down Zelda games are faster to make than 3D Zelda games, but we are getting them at a slower rate anyway. Makes it sting all the more that this is this decade's new top-down Zelda. A Link Between Worlds had its shortcomings, but it did a lot more things right than Echoes of Wisdom.

Lastly, can Nintendo please move on from using A Link to the Past's overworld? They seriously embedded it in Echoes of Wisdom's center with a bunch of alterations, but it's still easy enough to recognize.

Yeah this pretty much confirms my plan to not buy the game. When the game was first revealed I was thinking it was awesome, until I realized you don't actually get to do combat, which is of course a major part of the Zelda series. Seems like they just wanted to make a quirky side game with Zelda as the character rather than give her a mainline game that could stand up with the stellar 2D Zelda pedigree. I've been looking forward to a new 2D Zelda the entire time the Switch has been out, now I'm just gonna hope they come out with a legit mainline 2D Zelda in a few years on the successor.

Combat, honestly isn't great.  Summon echo and watch it act dumb as a box of rocks.  

The game would have been much better if zelda could fight better.  



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Valdney said:
HoloDust said:

I already had problems in BotW with climbing - it uses stamina, which can be replenished mid-climb by going into inventory (which pauses game) and using stamina food/elixir, which are made with resources that are pretty much constantly respawning in the world, so practically no cost there - which for me was first step in trivializing exploration. This was actually easily fixable, but they didn't do it, so whether you climb something or not was maybe a decision in first few hours of the game, later becoming moot point due to overabundance of resources.

As I said, Echoes of Tiresome is not a terrible game - but it is disheartening seeing Aonuma striking again with his "puzzle-time" take on everything and instead of making 2D Zelda better, pretty much trivializing most elements of what made it good.

Which actually is not that surprising, he never liked original Zelda, thinking it's too hard. What I'm worried about is that, in mindset in which he obviously is now, if he is tasked with overlooking OoT remake (which is speculated to be next Zelda), he will fuck that up too with his "fresh" ideas.

You bring up a good point on BotW trivializing exploration with overabundance of resources, but it actually never impacted me because I never took the time to cook any elixirs other than the heart restoration one. Lol. Now, in a world where many games make you restore HP in real time, making combat and everything else much more exciting, you would think Nintendo would do it too. But Nintendo seems kinda lost between accessibility and difficulty. 

Both real time potions and decreasing full stamina and health meter by certain small percent (say 3%) every time you loose some, fixes most of the issues when it comes to stamina and health related stuff - it makes you think twice if you'll climb that cliff and loose quite a bit of maximum from your stamina wheel (until you rest or use some more expensive potions), or go around it through bokoblin patrol and risk your current and maximum health and some stamina (again, until you rest or use more expensive potions). It gives you clear choices and focus on a way you want to play and what you want to upgrade the most.

Not my idea - Outward actually uses this (along with same mechanic for environmental effects, along with some others) to great effect.



Finished it today. Meh, it was OK. Not great.

Biggest complaint is how weak zelda is in battles, especially defensively. And christ they nerfed her more towards the end.

The AI is god awful as well.

Good idea, meh execution.



Replaying through original Zelda for free right now on NSO instead of buying this game for $60. I think I made the right choice!



Slownenberg said:

Replaying through original Zelda for free right now on NSO instead of buying this game for $60. I think I made the right choice!

Let’s see how this game will sell, I have a feeling it is not going to be great! People are sick and tired of whoever is responsible for turning Zelda into this crap! I was so naive to believe that after BotW Zelda would finally move in the right direction, but this crap came back with a vengeance,  like a cancer and even 2d Zelda is now bad. Damn!



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Valdney said:

Let’s see how this game will sell, I have a feeling it is not going to be great! People are sick and tired of whoever is responsible for turning Zelda into this crap! I was so naive to believe that after BotW Zelda would finally move in the right direction, but this crap came back with a vengeance,  like a cancer and even 2d Zelda is now bad. Damn!

*Looks at (both LT and continued) sales of BotW and TotK*

Eh. Doesn't really seem like they are.



After Gerudo, Zora, Faron and Eldin...there are enjoyable tidbits in there, and actually potentially good core concept...but...I already can't remember any of the main dungeons (though I just played Faron and Eldin this weekend) - they are not intrinsically bad, but nothing is really memorable about them. Combat remains piss easy (actually, it got even easier) and traversal is as trivial as it was.

There are glimpses of proper 2D Zelda in there, but in this form, no, it's just not it.



Valdney said:
Slownenberg said:

Replaying through original Zelda for free right now on NSO instead of buying this game for $60. I think I made the right choice!

Let’s see how this game will sell, I have a feeling it is not going to be great! People are sick and tired of whoever is responsible for turning Zelda into this crap! I was so naive to believe that after BotW Zelda would finally move in the right direction, but this crap came back with a vengeance,  like a cancer and even 2d Zelda is now bad. Damn!

good news for you is that you can stop buying them and save money... win win

i am very happy with the direction of 2 of the best Zelda game we have ever had and thinking that a 2D Zelda with Zelda as main protagonist is to be considered anything but what it says on the package is wanting to be upset and moan about nothing. 

Zelda Echoes of Wisdom is just a nice placeholder waiting for the next real Zelda game. 

Jez what we have to endure during the last years of the 3DS.



Switch!!!

S.Peelman said:
Valdney said:

Let’s see how this game will sell, I have a feeling it is not going to be great! People are sick and tired of whoever is responsible for turning Zelda into this crap! I was so naive to believe that after BotW Zelda would finally move in the right direction, but this crap came back with a vengeance,  like a cancer and even 2d Zelda is now bad. Damn!

*Looks at (both LT and continued) sales of BotW and TotK*

Eh. Doesn't really seem like they are.

Amen!!! 



Switch!!!

HoloDust said:

After Gerudo, Zora, Faron and Eldin...there are enjoyable tidbits in there, and actually potentially good core concept...but...I already can't remember any of the main dungeons (though I just played Faron and Eldin this weekend) - they are not intrinsically bad, but nothing is really memorable about them. Combat remains piss easy (actually, it got even easier) and traversal is as trivial as it was.

There are glimpses of proper 2D Zelda in there, but in this form, no, it's just not it.

That is my biggest complaint, the dungeons are super generic.  I haven't played Skwyard for years and still can remember many of the dungeons.  I beat Wisdom a few days ago and can't recall anything of note.