I'm talking about "graphics enthusiasts" like the ones that propagate and make a lot of noise on message boards like this one (even though this is a sales website). 

That's not "PC gamer", there are tons of PC gamers with low end rigs and tons of PC gamers that don't give a shit about graphics. 

The proof in that pudding is for several years all we heard was "wait till next-gen games with killer graphics arrive! People will flock to them!". Well those games have started to trickle out, things like Unreal Engine 5 showcase Immortals of Aveum, Senua's Saga just released, Alan Wake II, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, the PS5-only Final Fantasy games, even something like Starfield which is a huge release. 

But most of these games are having underwhelming sales, some of them being full blown flops. I even hear stuff like "well people in Japan are buying a PS5 to play Genshin Impact". And people just casually say that without even thinking about it. Really? A smartphone game is the biggest game on a next gen console in a large market? They're playing that over a $100+ million dollar big budget next-gen Final Fantasy game? When the fuck did this just become the norm? If that isn't a glaring red flag that the market is changing in massive ways I don't even know what to say. 

Some people are wildly out to lunch thinking they're still in 2003 or something and the industry more or less is just working like it was back then, it's not even close. This gen is nothing like previous generations at all, we're nearly into the PS5's fifth year and the biggest 3rd party yearly IP (COD) is still on last gen consoles. We have a small handful of "lets push this new hardware" titles and pretty much all of them have failed to light up any sales chart. People don't care. 

We all know graphics don't sell games on their own but that data obviously shows more people care about perfomance and graphics then you think when the majority of PC gamers have more powerful hardware than ps5, they want to run their favorite games at descent resolution and framerate so that throws your argument right out the window.

I don't think it's anywhere near that simple. The whole "I've bought a new console/graphics card and now will buy a graphics showcase game to show it off" I don't think even that is happening anymore. These people "upgrade" in the same sense they upgrade their phone for a few quality of life features, but they really don't care about the performance that much. It's "iPhone-ization" of hardware in general. 

It used to be if you got say a Dreamcast, you would definitely want Soul Calibur even if you're not a big fighting fan to show off the system and say "hey bet your PS1 can't do this" type of thing. I don't think that's really happening at all anymore. 

Lots of people just buy what's on the shelf at a certain point because they just want something new, just like they want the newer iPhone or whatever, take it home and then just go straight back to playing Fortnite or Genshin Impact and pay zero attention to an Alan Wake 2 or Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora or Senua's Saga ... zero fucks given. In Japan they can't even bother to show up for FF7 Rebirth, an uber expensive, quite pretty remake of one of most beloved Japanese games ever made, like something is definitely changed massively here. They'd rather play a smartphone game on their PS5? When did that become normal, and how is that just some small thing. It's absurd that this doesn't even get talked about, lol, like "yeah this is just normal now" .... whaaat? 

I think part of the problem in discussing what the industry is now is some people just hold to a belief that "well this is how things worked in the past, so everything will just do that over and over and over again" ... when it's clear things are no where near that simple. 

I don't think it's that complicated at all if you have the money and you game 10-20 hours a week, you want the best performance that's in your budget, and the data shows that people don't buy graphic cards like phones cause dropping frames or being low resolution really distracts from the experience for many, and as far i know graphics cards are not sold in monthly plans.

Because you basically just look at the industry in a fairly two dimensional bland way (ie: Nintendo is same Nintendo of 20 years ago even though many of the leadership positions are completely different, their hardware division is run by a completely different person, and Switch isn't exactly the DS philosophy at all for instance). 

Like I can use a fairly easy analogy here ... 4KTV's are the majority (vast majority) of TV sales today. That must mean people care about the highest picture quality possible and 4K video content ... right? Why buy a 4KTV to replace a 1080p one? And by extension that would mean good things for enthusiast formats like 4K Blu-Ray. Makes perfect sense. Except the reality isn't working like that at all. 

What we see is the exact opposite happening, people are fine with their cable TV still broadcasting in ancient compressed 720p, they just blast that onto their 4K 70 inch screen without a second thought. The majority of Netflix customers subscribe to the non 4K tier. 4K Blu Ray sales have tanked as 4K TV adoption has gone up, even though 4K Blu-Ray is the best quality of 4K content available. 

Why? Because you have to look at several factors (for one, you can't even buy non-4K sets that easily anymore and if you can the price difference to a 4K one is negligible, same as trying to hunt down like a GTX 1060 Ti or some shit ... you might as well just buy a RTX 3060). It's hard to even buy a non-4K TV. 

With the PC market it's even far more complex than that there are a lot of other factors most notably the Cryto Bros. Boom where demand was artificially high for years and then that market evaporated flooding the market with used GPUs at a discount. Sales of the 40 series which is the first GPU generation post-crypto boom really saw middling sales, luckily for Nvidia no one really even cares about that because supplying A.I. companies has become their no.1 business. 

But the sales data shows these people buying these GPUs and next-gen consoles don't care enough to spend another $50-$70 to buy a game that pushes the hardware ... Alan Wake II even won some GOTY awards. Starfield had a massive marketing campaign. Avatar Frontiers of Pandora is one of the biggest film IP in the world. Immortals of Aveum is published by EA and had a sizable marketing push too and lots of "finally showcasing the power of Unreal Engine 5!!!" and it flopped. Senua's Saga ... flopping harder than HiFi Rush. Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth as a PS5 only, surely that'll be the next-gen big ticket title that puts up even reasonable sales ... nope. 

Sorry but I don't agree with your points or general hardware philosophy. 

But if you want a cold hard metric on it, the sales don't lie, people that think like you are a small minority on message boards that make a lot of noise but aren't showing up to buy games in any big number. If that wasn't true, there are now several "graphics showcase" type titles this gen that have sold underwhelming numbers. 

The tech doesn't matter to begin with when the business model is falling apart. 

Whole lot of talk, not a lot of actual sales going on here which indicates an industry that is headed in a much different direction, it's like sitting on a movie board and having a small bunch of people talk on and on about CGI quality when the fact is the average movie goer doesn't give a fuck about CGI quality in 2024, it's not 1996 anymore where that meant a lot. 

That's not "PC gamer", there are tons of PC gamers with low end rigs and tons of PC gamers that don't give a shit about graphics. 

Like I can use a fairly easy analogy here ... 4KTV's are the majority (vast majority) of TV sales today. That must mean people care about the highest picture quality possible and 4K video content ... right? Why buy a 4KTV to replace a 1080p one? And by extension that would mean good things for enthusiast formats like 4K Blu-Ray. Makes perfect sense. Except the reality isn't working like that at all. 

What we see is the exact opposite happening, people are fine with their cable TV still broadcasting in ancient compressed 720p, they just blast that onto their 4K 70 inch screen without a second thought. The majority of Netflix customers subscribe to the non 4K tier. 4K Blu Ray sales have tanked as 4K TV adoption has gone up, even though 4K Blu-Ray is the best quality of 4K content available. 

Why? Because you have to look at several factors (for one, you can't even buy non-4K sets that easily anymore and if you can the price difference to a 4K one is negligible, same as trying to hunt down like a GTX 1060 Ti or some shit ... you might as well just buy a RTX 3060). It's hard to even buy a non-4K TV.

So you don't agree with the evidence presented either? Then hows about you present better evidence? Otherwise we can just factually conclude you are wrong on all accounts for failing to do so.

Steam makes billions every year. We are not a small number. Don't propagate false information.

Many Nintendo exclusives sell in underwhelming numbers as well, but their development can still be justified as it helps build-out an entire ecosystem.

Case in point, Metroid is a fairly small I.P. Yet if it can accrue a million customers to the platform, those million customers will likely invest in other titles as well, making it a net-win.
 

The PC business model is not falling apart.
People have been making blatantly false proclamations for literally decades that the PC is dying.

Console gaming is also not falling apart, Microsoft and Sony still make a ton of money.

The industry has matured. And there are sales.

However you are shifting the goal post yet again.

When are you going to stop engaging in logical fallacies and actually start forming a coherent, logical argument laden with appropriate evidence to backup your claims?

YOU NEED TO STOP LYING.

The evidence has already been provided where the majority of PC gamers are NOT using low-end hardware.

You need to start accepting that fact, because it is actually fact.

Your analogy doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Streaming is the majority of where our video comes from in 2024 and often they are 4k.

https://www.nielsen.com/insights/2023/streaming-grabs-a-record-38-7-of-total-tv-usage-in-july-with-acquired-titles-outpacing-new-originals/

However... 4k Panels can also upscale lower-definition content.

However, 4k isn't just to benefit only 4k content.

The Xbox One X, Playstation 4 Pro, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X, Playstation 5 can all display content that is above 1080P (I.E. 1440P) and thus has benefits on a 4k panel verses a 1080P panel.

This entire thread you have literally failed to provide evidence or indisputable facts.

What's the 2nd highest used GPU on Steam? A GTX 1650? That's "high end hardware"?

Graphics whores are a minority part of the audience, it is showing in SALES DATA. Just because people buy new consoles and GPUs doesn't mean there's a 1:1 correlation to "these people must love graphics like I do" ... no actually there's a lot of different factors in play. 

Lots of people buy PC hardware for work/hobby/investment purposes first for example, lots of people bought PCs for crypto, lots of people want to be social media influencers and buy modern PCs to be able to edit videos, other people work in fields like computer animation, etc. etc. etc. They also then may justify the purchase by also saying "well I can also game on this rig too, cool".

That doesn't mean "OMG! They are graphics enthusiasts just like me". Fuck no. 

People are not buying games like Alan Wake II, Unreal Engine 5 showcases like Immortals Of Aveum, Sensua's Saga, Avatar, shit even on PS5 Square-Enix can't even get people interested in next-gen only Final Fantasy games including a remake. When we are seeing market trends like this it is fair to surmise there is a complexity of things happening on the market, it's not as simple as "I like this that means everyone also must". 

That is also a laughable dumb POV that gets throw around here a lot "well I only game with 16GB+! I need this level of performance! Well I only game at XYZ resolution! No one can play at 30 FPS! Nintendo should have used $700 worth of components for the Switch in my opinion!" ... like that has no relevance to wide market discussion whatsoever. I'm interested in what the actual market trends are, how they are changing, the dynamics of budgets in relation to that and the future of the business ... I don't give two shits about random individuals on the internet and their individual gaming fetishes as if that is some super important issue, least of all when they are niche part of the audience to begin with. 

It's not a dumb pov at all. people used to accept 20-30fps games on n64, 360, and ps3 hardware. As hardware gets more advanced people have higher standards, learn how to deal with it, and accept  other people's pov instead of using you own Made up data point sto push your narrative.

In a discussion about broad market trends and the overall industry, 3-4 people constantly trying to insert their own personal gaming fetishes and preferences is irrelevant and frankly stupid that the entire discussion has to always revolve around the preferences of a handful of people. I'm not interested in what settings you like to game at or what you need as a gamer, it has nothing of value to add to the conversation if we're talking the overall market, where the industry is trending, how massively rising budgets are impact the business, etc. etc. etc.