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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Digital Foundry: Hellblade II - "A defining moment in the evolution of realtime graphics"

curl-6 said:

Not necessarily; graphics and gameplay are separate departments, one doesn't have to take away from the other. There are plenty of games that have both great graphics and great gameplay.

Sure they are separate departments, paid out of the same overall budget. Do you allocate more budget to the graphics department, or to the gameplay department. Of course one takes away from the other, budgets are finite.

TotK has great graphics and great gameplay, but not by pushing the evolution of realtime graphics or trying to simulate Hollywood movies.

And there is a big correlation between freedom in gameplay and 'defining graphics'. The better you want the game to look, the more you need to control / reign in what the player can see and do. Better graphics -> less interactivity. It's been like that since the beginning and will still be like that until graphics can't be improved any further.

Anyway as a graphical showcase (mines the CA) Hellblade II looks amazing and feels like a peak into what can be great graphics with great gameplay next generation. Just like the Order 1886 and Rise of Rome were.



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SvennoJ said:
curl-6 said:

Not necessarily; graphics and gameplay are separate departments, one doesn't have to take away from the other. There are plenty of games that have both great graphics and great gameplay.

Sure they are separate departments, paid out of the same overall budget. Do you allocate more budget to the graphics department, or to the gameplay department. Of course one takes away from the other, budgets are finite.

TotK has great graphics and great gameplay, but not by pushing the evolution of realtime graphics or trying to simulate Hollywood movies.

And there is a big correlation between freedom in gameplay and 'defining graphics'. The better you want the game to look, the more you need to control / reign in what the player can see and do. Better graphics -> less interactivity. It's been like that since the beginning and will still be like that until graphics can't be improved any further.

Anyway as a graphical showcase (mines the CA) Hellblade II looks amazing and feels like a peak into what can be great graphics with great gameplay next generation. Just like the Order 1886 and Rise of Rome were.

Great gameplay doesn't require lots of money though, there are indie games made with barely any money that have great gameplay.

I haven't played Hellblade II yet, but if it's anything like the first game, its tightly controlled nature is more in the service of atmosphere, storytelling, and minimalism. They didn't sacrifice gameplay to make it look better, this is simply the style of game they wanted to make.

I'd also contend that Hellblade 1 at least had excellent gameplay.



curl-6 said:

Great gameplay doesn't require lots of money though, there are indie games made with barely any money that have great gameplay.

I haven't played Hellblade II yet, but if it's anything like the first game, its tightly controlled nature is more in the service of atmosphere, storytelling, and minimalism. They didn't sacrifice gameplay to make it look better, this is simply the style of game they wanted to make.

I'd also contend that Hellblade 1 at least had excellent gameplay.

Zelda TOTK could have been sold several years earlier. But they wanted it to have good playability.

Several years without income is not what I would call "cheap"



Tico said:
curl-6 said:

Great gameplay doesn't require lots of money though, there are indie games made with barely any money that have great gameplay.

I haven't played Hellblade II yet, but if it's anything like the first game, its tightly controlled nature is more in the service of atmosphere, storytelling, and minimalism. They didn't sacrifice gameplay to make it look better, this is simply the style of game they wanted to make.

I'd also contend that Hellblade 1 at least had excellent gameplay.

Zelda TOTK could have been sold several years earlier. But they wanted it to have good playability.

Several years without income is not what I would call "cheap"

TOTK is not a typical case though, it has one of the most elaborate physics systems of any game ever made.

There are indie games with tiny budgets that have great gameplay.

Hellblade's gameplay is the way it is because that is the game Ninja Theory wanted to make, not just so it can have amazing graphics.



curl-6 said:
Tico said:

Zelda TOTK could have been sold several years earlier. But they wanted it to have good playability.

Several years without income is not what I would call "cheap"

TOTK is not a typical case though, it has one of the most elaborate physics systems of any game ever made.

There are indie games with tiny budgets that have great gameplay.

Hellblade's gameplay is the way it is because that is the game Ninja Theory wanted to make, not just so it can have amazing graphics.

A lot of the reviews say this one has worse game play than the first one, so the criticism that they over focused on graphics and just mailed in the game play probably isn't without merit. 



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Had posted this in the OT thread a couple of hours ago but just realized it should have been here:

"finished Hellblade II ( playing one chapter per day, that worked really well for me) and to me it is an amazing experience. I think to be able to see that Ninja Theory wanted to give it more mainstream appeal than the first one, without sacrificing their vision - and to me they succeeded.

There was a good flow to the story and progression, graphics, music and sound are awesome, and I say they did a great job immersing you in Senua's world (learning to live with the constant voices in your head, looking for clues and hidden faces everywhere in the world and doubting what of what you have seen and done was "real" and what was not- that's how Senua walks through life, and you get to experience glimpses of that yourself as the player and get to feel her struggle; great accomplishment).

And the combat and the puzzles (although mechanically in and of themselves only being mediocre videogame food) fit into that experience and support it. Clear 9 out of 10 in my book.

My gripes are actually only the water physics (the way waves clip into other objects for example) which I found to be immersion-breakingly bad next to the other stunning visuals and Melina Juergens' acting- I don't doubt her commitment but I think she is not a very good or convincing actor.

But I am happy this game exists and was allowed to be made exactly like this."



Tico said:
curl-6 said:

Great gameplay doesn't require lots of money though, there are indie games made with barely any money that have great gameplay.

I haven't played Hellblade II yet, but if it's anything like the first game, its tightly controlled nature is more in the service of atmosphere, storytelling, and minimalism. They didn't sacrifice gameplay to make it look better, this is simply the style of game they wanted to make.

I'd also contend that Hellblade 1 at least had excellent gameplay.

Zelda TOTK could have been sold several years earlier. But they wanted it to have good playability.

Several years without income is not what I would call "cheap"

Okay, but Zelda has always been about gameplay/combat over visuals. Hellblade is a different kind of game that purposely priorities other features over gameplay. If you don't like that, then cool, but it has nothing to do with "lack of budget." 



I finally got around go finish it. Overall, I really enjoyed it. I would give it the same score I gave the first game which is about 8/10. There are things I liked more about this one compared to first, but some things I like more in the first one.
One thing is for certain, this game is a looker.

I really want to post some screenshots, but last time posted images on here from my phone, I broke the thread 😅.



Current number of players in steam 😬😰

Hellblade 2  291 players 

Hi-Fi Rush  390 players



smroadkill15 said:

I finally got around go finish it. Overall, I really enjoyed it. I would give it the same score I gave the first game which is about 8/10. There are things I liked more about this one compared to first, but some things I like more in the first one.
One thing is for certain, this game is a looker.

I really want to post some screenshots, but last time posted images on here from my phone, I broke the thread 😅.

The game can be played on Day One and was released almost three weeks ago.You have been a part of this thread since early on.

If you really enjoyed it you would have finished it long ago.