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Forums - Sales Discussion - FF7 Rebirth has reportedly sold half what Remake did in the same timeframe

curl-6 said:
Chrkeller said:

I understand wholly.  You just give the impression that raw power and modern features are equal partners in the dance, meaning 1:1.  I'm saying they are not equal...  raw power needs weighting of at least 2x, if not more.  See Steam Deck vs 1080ti for details. 

Newer features aren't a non-factor though, that's all I'm saying.

In the case of Switch and PS3, the advantages can be seen in the games they share.

Take the Crysis trilogy for example. The Switch versions smoke the PS3 versions.

It is hard to calculate and perhaps impossible.  But after gaming on a Switch, ps4, ps5, 3050, 4070 and 4090...  I'm going it is 20% modern features and 80% raw power.  

But I think we are saying the same thing.  

I say that because the 3050 has modern features over a 2070s (ps5 ish) and it means little.  The 2070s wins with extreme ease. 

The 4070 and 4090 have the same modern features but the 4090 decimates the 4070.  I can run games on the 4090 better than the 4070 and in some cases the 4090's fans don't even turn on because it doesn't even have to try. 



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I don't think we know what the Switch 1 can fully do, it's becoming fairly obvious Nintendo probably stopped the system from going to max performance to save 4K/higher frame rates as a selling point for Switch 2. The Switch 1 can even run Tears of the Kingdom at 60 fps, but Nintendo won't allow this even though modders/hackers can run it. And this is the OG Switch which runs hotter, the Mariko/OLED models should be able to run this much more easily because they consume less power, Nintendo could have offered this mode at least for Mariko/OLED users docked, I believe they are not because they want people to pay for a Switch 2 for 60 fps and/or higher res and for people to have to buy the game over again on Switch 2. 

I think Switch OLED was originally indeed supposed to be the fabled Switch 4K/Switch Pro ... but when they saw they really didn't need it because Switch 1 sales were so high, they cut the 4K output and higher performance features out and just pivoted to use the OLED display as the sales feature so as to allow the Switch 2 to have 4K to itself. The Switch OLED dock oddly still having added 4K output certainly supports that theory, they added the 4K output to the dock because it was supposed to have 4K games but they then backtracked and cut the feature out but didn't want to throw away the dock design they paid to have made. 

We have proof now too that the Switch can even run games at 4K, in the previous video I posted. Nintendo IMO is not allowing these features in order to save them for Switch 2. If the current Switch allowed for 4K games, well that hurts the Switch 2 to some extent, I think they decided they don't want to do that because they didn't need sales boosts for the current Switch.

It's the same thing with no GCN/Wii games on Switch Online ... the Tegra X1 can actually easily emulate those games, not only run them but run them at 1440p resolution (as shown in the Switch 4K video). Nintendo just isn't offering this now, likely because it's being saved for Switch 2.

The Tegra X1 is closer to the PS4 and especially XB1 specifically the Mariko/OLED version of it than it's given credit for, Nintendo is not IMO allowing it for sales reasons. They realized Switch 1 sales were so high that they didn't need a Pro/4K model, they want people to have to buy a new system (Switch 2) to get 4K and they want people to buy games like Tears of the Kingdom again on Switch 2 as the only way to get 1440p-4K, 60 fps, etc. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 19 May 2024

Chrkeller said:
curl-6 said:

So why didn't NVidia make the Tegra X1 in 2005, if no progress in GPU technology was made between 2005 and 2015?

For that matter, why is the PS4 more powerful than the PS3, if technology doesn't advance over time?

The cold hard fact is that Switch is more capable than PS3. That's not an opinion, that's objective reality. We have the specs, and we can see how the games they share perform.

Nobody said progress wasn't made.  We are saying muscle is more important.

The ps3 was 256 ram, the ps4 was 8 gb....  32x increase.  

The ps3 was 20 (ish) gb/s while the ps4 was 176 gb/s....  almost a 10x increase. 

The muscle of the ps4 kills the ps3.

The switch has 25 gb/s....  sounds like a ps3 and no where near a ps4......  but it has more ram than the ps3.  

So yeah the switch is stronger than the ps3....  by 10-15% in performance.  Maybe 20%. 

It doesn't touch the ps4.  There is nothing on the switch that is like Ghost, GoW, Horizon, etc.  

True. But there is nothing like Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom on PS3 either. And Breath of the Wild was made for Wii U (2012).

Doom 2016, Nier Automata, Mortal Comabat11 where released on Switch with minor compromises. Could Doom 2016, Nier Automata, Mortal Combat11 be a PS3 game?



Soundwave said:

I don't think we know what the Switch 1 can fully do, it's becoming fairly obvious Nintendo probably stopped the system from going to max performance to save 4K/higher frame rates as a selling point for Switch 2. The Switch 1 can even run Tears of the Kingdom at 60 fps, but Nintendo won't allow this even though modders/hackers can run it. And this is the OG Switch which runs hotter, the Mariko/OLED models should be able to run this much more easily because they consume less power, Nintendo could have offered this mode at least for Mariko/OLED users docked, I believe they are not because they want people to pay for a Switch 2 for 60 fps and/or higher res and for people to have to buy the game over again on Switch 2. 

I think Switch OLED was originally indeed supposed to be the fabled Switch 4K/Switch Pro ... but when they saw they really didn't need it because Switch 1 sales were so high, they cut the 4K output and higher performance features out and just pivoted to use the OLED display as the sales feature so as to allow the Switch 2 to have 4K to itself. The Switch OLED dock oddly still having added 4K output certainly supports that theory, they added the 4K output to the dock because it was supposed to have 4K games but they then backtracked and cut the feature out but didn't want to throw away the dock design they paid to have made. 

We have proof now too that the Switch can even run games at 4K, in the previous video I posted. Nintendo IMO is not allowing these features in order to save them for Switch 2. If the current Switch allowed for 4K games, well that hurts the Switch 2 to some extent, I think they decided they don't want to do that because they didn't need sales boosts for the current Switch.

It's the same thing with no GCN/Wii games on Switch Online ... the Tegra X1 can actually easily emulate those games, not only run them but run them at 1440p resolution (as shown in the Switch 4K video). Nintendo just isn't offering this now, likely because it's being saved for Switch 2.

The Tegra X1 is closer to the PS4 and especially XB1 specifically the Mariko/OLED version of it than it's given credit for, Nintendo is not IMO allowing it for sales reasons. They realized Switch 1 sales were so high that they didn't need a Pro/4K model, they want people to have to buy a new system (Switch 2) to get 4K and they want people to buy games like Tears of the Kingdom again on Switch 2 as the only way to get 1440p-4K, 60 fps, etc. 

Switch had like 9 years in the market now we are making excuses  that it didn't reach it's potential lol. We can't really look at how a over clocked version cause it's not reality. What if ps3 didn't have shit ram set up that was a pain or had more ram it would have made a huge difference 



zeldaring said:
Soundwave said:

I don't think we know what the Switch 1 can fully do, it's becoming fairly obvious Nintendo probably stopped the system from going to max performance to save 4K/higher frame rates as a selling point for Switch 2. The Switch 1 can even run Tears of the Kingdom at 60 fps, but Nintendo won't allow this even though modders/hackers can run it. And this is the OG Switch which runs hotter, the Mariko/OLED models should be able to run this much more easily because they consume less power, Nintendo could have offered this mode at least for Mariko/OLED users docked, I believe they are not because they want people to pay for a Switch 2 for 60 fps and/or higher res and for people to have to buy the game over again on Switch 2. 

I think Switch OLED was originally indeed supposed to be the fabled Switch 4K/Switch Pro ... but when they saw they really didn't need it because Switch 1 sales were so high, they cut the 4K output and higher performance features out and just pivoted to use the OLED display as the sales feature so as to allow the Switch 2 to have 4K to itself. The Switch OLED dock oddly still having added 4K output certainly supports that theory, they added the 4K output to the dock because it was supposed to have 4K games but they then backtracked and cut the feature out but didn't want to throw away the dock design they paid to have made. 

We have proof now too that the Switch can even run games at 4K, in the previous video I posted. Nintendo IMO is not allowing these features in order to save them for Switch 2. If the current Switch allowed for 4K games, well that hurts the Switch 2 to some extent, I think they decided they don't want to do that because they didn't need sales boosts for the current Switch.

It's the same thing with no GCN/Wii games on Switch Online ... the Tegra X1 can actually easily emulate those games, not only run them but run them at 1440p resolution (as shown in the Switch 4K video). Nintendo just isn't offering this now, likely because it's being saved for Switch 2.

The Tegra X1 is closer to the PS4 and especially XB1 specifically the Mariko/OLED version of it than it's given credit for, Nintendo is not IMO allowing it for sales reasons. They realized Switch 1 sales were so high that they didn't need a Pro/4K model, they want people to have to buy a new system (Switch 2) to get 4K and they want people to buy games like Tears of the Kingdom again on Switch 2 as the only way to get 1440p-4K, 60 fps, etc. 

Switch had like 9 years in the market now we are making excuses  that it didn't reach it's potential lol. We can't really look at how a over clocked version cause it's not reality. What if ps3 didn't have shit ram set up that was a pain or had more ram it would have made a huge difference 

IMO I think there's a lot of signs Nintendo was prepping a Switch Pro, but COVID basically derailed those plans. We can see on the Switch OLED model as is the dock has added 4K resolution output, not only that but they enabled 4 DP lanes on the Switch OLED chipset which allows for 4K/60 fps output on the chipset itself. Why would they do that? There is no reason to do these two things unless you were planning on 4K video output. 

There are reports from 2020 from not rumor rags but sources like Bloomberg that Nintendo was telling developers to prepare for 4K for a new model coming in early 2021. I think these reports in hindsight were actually correct but Nintendo just pivoted away from this direction. 

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/nintendo-is-reportedly-telling-developers-to-make-their-games-4k-ready/

I think what happened is Switch 1 was selling so well (and continues to this day) circa 2020 that Nintendo realized they didn't need a Pro model and decided to leave 4K and better frame rates for Switch 2. Why use that bullet before if you don't need to. They want people to buy a Switch 2 and buy games like Tears of the Kingdom a second time on that system at 4K/60. Business wise this is the correct move to make. 

But the current Switch OLED/Mariko is capable of running games at even 4K, that's been proven now, even in the most insane way. Imagine a PS5 installing Linux on it, running a PS5 emulator and then running PS5 games at 8k resolution ... it would be insane, but the more recent Switch models are already capable of this. Nintendo just doesn't want to allow this because they want people pay up for a Switch 2 to get it. 

The Tegra X1 is more capable that it's credited for, it's just a weird mix of an odd initial manufacturing process (20nm) that made it run a bit too hot and then COVID happened created a massive surge in Switch sales without Nintendo even having to release huge software for a couple of years which I think then also killed the Switch Pro and we got a Switch OLED instead. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 19 May 2024

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Tober said:
Chrkeller said:

Nobody said progress wasn't made.  We are saying muscle is more important.

The ps3 was 256 ram, the ps4 was 8 gb....  32x increase.  

The ps3 was 20 (ish) gb/s while the ps4 was 176 gb/s....  almost a 10x increase. 

The muscle of the ps4 kills the ps3.

The switch has 25 gb/s....  sounds like a ps3 and no where near a ps4......  but it has more ram than the ps3.  

So yeah the switch is stronger than the ps3....  by 10-15% in performance.  Maybe 20%. 

It doesn't touch the ps4.  There is nothing on the switch that is like Ghost, GoW, Horizon, etc.  

True. But there is nothing like Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom on PS3 either. And Breath of the Wild was made for Wii U (2012).

Doom 2016, Nier Automata, Mortal Comabat11 where released on Switch with minor compromises. Could Doom 2016, Nier Automata, Mortal Combat11 be a PS3 game?

GTA IV, Oblivion, Fallout, etc.

Probably.



Here is the Switch OLED running Diablo III at 4K resolution and a playable frame rate even, and understand this is running this while having to have Linux (performance hit) installed + *emulating a Switch through Yuzu* (lol), so the system is being forced to emulate itself (massive performance hit):

https://youtu.be/uqhZpjHFud4?si=eGzsjTUjgmc8jLYQ&t=1575

Not even the PS4 runs Diablo III at 4K resolution.

The Switch OLED IMO was supposed to be the Switch Pro. The power is clearly there for it to be. COVID happened, Switch sales surged, and Nintendo basically I think said "we don't need to use the 4K bullet on a Pro model, we're better off saving that as a Switch 2 selling point". And they're probably correct in doing that, still a bit of a shame it probably worked out that way. If Switch 1 already had 4K resolution, selling a Switch 2 would become a lot harder, they made the right call. 

This is waaaay beyond a PS3 or XBox 360 though, even for a PS4 emulating a Switch 1 and running any Switch 1 software at 4K would probably fuck it up. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 19 May 2024

LMFAO



The Switch Pro/OLED stuff should probably be its own thread, but I think it's becoming more obvious Switch OLED was indeed basically the Switch Pro.

We just had no way of testing it until a Youtuber found that you can force the Switch to display higher resolutions than 1080p by using a rare projector display that most people don't have but that display unlocks a whole host of display outputs for the Switch right in its native menu. And then even more insanely he figured out he can emulate a Switch using the Switch itself. 

Wouldn't surprise me if in 10-15 years from now Nintendo confirms this as the case at some GDC panel or something like how they just casually admitted "Atlantis" (32-bit Game Boy 2 with full color 3D graphics was supposed to launch in 1996 or 97) was actually a real thing like 11 years after the fact despite never talking about it before (it was rumored in game magazines but never announced or discussed by Nintendo until around 2008). 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 19 May 2024

Chrkeller said:
Tober said:

True. But there is nothing like Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom on PS3 either. And Breath of the Wild was made for Wii U (2012).

Doom 2016, Nier Automata, Mortal Comabat11 where released on Switch with minor compromises. Could Doom 2016, Nier Automata, Mortal Combat11 be a PS3 game?

GTA IV, Oblivion, Fallout, etc.

Probably.

Those games are a generation behind the likes of Doom 2016 in terms of technical makeup though.

Porting PS4 games to Switch is just about possible cos of its 3.2GB of useable RAM, but even then you can see where they had to cut things like textures back. So if they had to dig deep to get these games running on 3.2GB of RAM, it's safe to say that they wouldn't be feasible on the less than 500MB available to PS3, and that's before we even account for all the graphical bells and whistles in these games that PS3 wasn't designed to handle.