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Forums - Sony Discussion - (Rumor) Playstation 6 to be enhanced by generative AI. To feature Ray Reconstruction and Path Tracing

Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:

Films are just stories, stories are meant quite often as a cautionary and reflective tale for human behavior. Contrary to popular belief they're not just a series of events and CGI explosions, the most impactful films are that because they carry a message for the audience. Film, music, to a lesser extent games are art because it reflects on the human condition and lets us view what it means to be human in different ways. 


I can't believe I am arguing with someone who is proposing that science-fiction/speculative fiction films should be taken seriously. In 2024.

They are not real.

I assume after watching the film "knowing" you are under the belief that there will be a giant solar flare which will glass the entire surface of the planet? It's a movie, so it must be real, right?

Or what about the movie "The happening" which has plants conspiring with each other by releasing a toxin designed to wipe out humanity? Is that also real?

Or what about the movie "The Core" which has a group of people drilling to Earths core (Impossible) to detonate a Nuclear device to get the core spinning again?

If you think these stories are a legitimate "cautionary tale" then I am not sure what to tell you... Except you are wrong.

They are works of speculative fiction. Not real life.

Soundwave said:

Stephen Hawking stated that alien contact would likely not end well for humans, so I'll worry about that when aliens arrive. AI is here and now and developing. 

Just like God, there is absolutely zero evidence for alien life.

Now the laws of mathematics and probability does assume there is a high probability of such due to the vastness of the universe and the number of planetary bodies that would exist.

Hence why Stephen Hawking, Neil Degrasse Tyson, Brian Cox etc' have all said that due to the fact there are approximately 2 trillion galaxies, each with 100's of billions of stars in each said galaxy, many of those stars feature upwards of several dozen planets... There is a statistical probability that life has formed on another planet.

But they also state that, we also don't have evidence to support that idea... So the appropriate response is: "We don't know".

Soundwave said:

Your summation there is the whole damn point, the popularity of movies like The Matrix and Terminator in a sense creates a blind spot for a lot of people because they've been taught their whole life "that's just a movie! that can't possibly happen! They're just trying to make money. Ignore that completely, it can't happen".

Again. I never asserted something "can't happen".

I asserted that these are movies and not real life... And any similar "occurrences" are merely coincidental and not some fore-telling/warning from a random fictional movie.
Take the "Simpsons" for example, that show has made all sorts of predictions/ideas since it's inception, many of which turned out to occur, but it's still a cartoon, it's still only correlation.

If you believe we are all hooked up to a computer in a simulated reality (Yes, some people genuinely believe that) like what was proposed by David Kipping, without evidence... Then I am not sure what to tell you.

Except, that I am in possession of Kangaroo feathers and happy to sell.



Soundwave said:

5 years ago if I said a Spanish Flu like virus would shut down the entire planet, shut down industry, shut down all schools worldwide, shut down travel, shut down major sports leagues, cancel the Olympics, people would be locked inside their homes, there'd be people fighting in grocery store aisles for toilet paper and hand sanitizer, would even 1 single person on this board believe it? I doubt it. They'd say "that sounds like a movie". Now we were lucky COVID was a relatively (I say relatively) mild kind of virus, imagine something like that was more like Ebola and spreading everywhere, it would have devolved into mass chaos. 

The difference between something like the Terminator Skynet scenario and the Disease epidemics like COVID is that... One has actually happened and has happened all through human history.

I.E:
1) Antonine plague. - Year 165.
2) Justinian plague. - Year 541.
3) Bubonic plage/Black Death. - Year 735.
4) Cholera Pandemic. - Year 1846.
5) Coronavirus Pandemic/Influenza. - Year 1889.
6) H1N1 panedemic. - Year 1918.
7) HIV - Year 1981.
8) COVID-19. - Year 2019

There are dozens more Panemics/Plagues/Epidemics that have ravaged populations, but I have made my point.

These "outbreaks" predate movies and media and have happened all through history and will continue to repeat, movies stole the concept to commercialize the issue, not the other way around.

Terminator is not based on any real life event or historical context or fact.
Skynet is not a thing.

Soundwave said:

Even for me when I learned about the Spanish Flu in school, I looked at that and said "well that's just some wacky crap from farmer-era, pre-technology 1920s, why do we have to learn about this, that could never happen again". Wrong. 

That's more or less due to your own intrinsic lack of understanding of history and pandemics/epidemics/plagues in general.

We have had Pandemics after-1920.

1) Russian Typhus Epidemic.
2) H2N2 Pandemic.
3) H3N2 Pandemic.
4) HIV.

I rest my case.

So yes, it does keep happening and will continue to keep happening, history is littered with the evidence.

Skynet? Not so much.

CaptainExplosion said:

You're asking me and several other people to give up an essential part of their lives leading to an even worse future. So should we just sit back and wait for the apocalypse, is that what you're saying? Because you might as well be saying that. There's no way humans can coexist with AI in the future.

Why can't we coexist?

A.I. has been around for decades, video games typically always had A.I. for computer controlled opponents even as far back as the 60's for chess.

Although it wasn't until "Deep Blue" was invented by IBM that A.I. managed to beat a world champion, which started development in 1985.

A.I has likely existed alongside you before you were even born with OCR technologies, speech recognition (Dragon Dictate) and more and you never even knew.

There is no apocalypse, that kind of fear mongering wont' get us far... Just like the Mayan 2012. Year 2000. etc'. Those apocalyptic predictions didn't amount to squat.

I simply used that as an example, which pandemics have shut down the entire world and forced people everywhere to have to lock down in their homes, closed schools, shut down all pro sports leagues, shut down all travel, cancelled the Olympics, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. 

My point is most people wouldn't have believed that possible. If I said this was going to happen 5 1/2 years ago on this board would one single person believe it? No fucking chance, lol. 

I remember even sitting on New Years Eve 2019, just a few weeks before shit would hit the fan, and we are kicking back having beers at a party and the news report of the quarantined Japanese cruise ship with COVID on it came on and everyone was having a laugh about it and how much a bizarre situation it was, but the feeling was very strongly "that shit will just stay over there and never come here". 

It's not really until the NBA and NHL shut down their seasons as COVID cases started to escalate that full scale panic kicked in. I went to the grocery store and things were normal just 48 hours prior, the next day and half the aisles were empty all the toilet paper gone. Never experienced anything like that. 

If an AI gains enough intelligence and it really figures it doesn't need 9 billion humans around, it won't be as cinematic as Skynet/Terminator, it'll probably just do something simple, like quietly in the background work on releasing something into the air or water supply or a virus that can rapidly spread itself.  

Last edited by Soundwave - on 06 March 2024

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CaptainExplosion said:
Chrkeller said:

"I hate AI and won't support it!!"

-switch 2 is based around AI tools

"Well I'm fine with it!"

Pretty standard reaction.  People very quickly accept technology and advancement the second they benefit directly.  

Where's your proof that Switch 2 is based around AI tools?

And even if I accepted AI advancements doesn't mean I want it to nuke us.

Lol, really?  You haven't kept up with the rumors and leaks.  The switch 2 is using a nvidia mobile chip...  Deep LEARNING Super Sampling is Nividia's baby.  

And what you buy or don't buy is your choice.  I'm just pointing out why jobs are lost to technology advancement...  consumers don't care and will not go without a product they want.  

Make no mistake DLSS and frame gen make ports easier and faster, because optimization isn't required to be handled by people.  



Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:

Stephen Hawking stated that alien contact would likely not end well for humans, so I'll worry about that when aliens arrive. AI is here and now and developing. 

Just like God, there is absolutely zero evidence for alien life.

Now the laws of mathematics and probability does assume there is a high probability of such due to the vastness of the universe and the number of planetary bodies that would exist.

Hence why Stephen Hawking, Neil Degrasse Tyson, Brian Cox etc' have all said that due to the fact there are approximately 2 trillion galaxies, each with 100's of billions of stars in each said galaxy, many of those stars feature upwards of several dozen planets... There is a statistical probability that life has formed on another planet.

But they also state that, we also don't have evidence to support that idea... So the appropriate response is: "We don't know".

Just to add on this, while they state that it's mathematically almost impossible (as in, about as probable to win the jackpot in a lottery twice in a row), that life doesn't have to be sentient or even further evolved than bacteria or algae. 

Also, while it's not the movie version or even AI, Skynet does exist, In the US as well as China. Both are systems to hunt down humans, even...



CaptainExplosion said:
Chrkeller said:

"I hate AI and won't support it!!"

-switch 2 is based around AI tools

"Well I'm fine with it!"

Pretty standard reaction.  People very quickly accept technology and advancement the second they benefit directly.  

Where's your proof that Switch 2 is based around AI tools?

And even if I accepted AI advancements doesn't mean I want it to nuke us.

It's only natural for the Switch successor have A.I upscaling, whether it uses DLSS, XESS, FSR or a bespoke solution, A.I. is in the next Switch as  developers are leveraging it across the entire industry. FSR with A.I upscaling should be back-ported to the Xbox One, Playstation 4 and Switch hardware.

Contrary to popular belief you don't need a ton of "tensor" or FP8 capability to drive A.I. algorithms either, you can do it on conventional FP16/FP32/FP64/INT8/INT16 shader hardware.

Where is your evidence that A.I. will be capable of nuking us?

You cannot DEMAND evidence from someone else and then make a baseless assertion not based on fact and without evidence, it's blatantly hypocritical.

Soundwave said:

I simply used that as an example, which pandemics have shut down the entire world and forced people everywhere to have to lock down in their homes, closed schools, shut down all pro sports leagues, shut down all travel, cancelled the Olympics, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. 

My point is most people wouldn't have believed that possible. If I said this was going to happen 5 1/2 years ago on this board would one single person believe it? No fucking chance, lol.

To be fair... Most people are stupid, it's the individual that can stand out and be smart.

Remember 1 in 4 Americans believe that the sun revolves around the Earth with the Earth at the center of the Solar system.
Conversely 1 in 4 Americans believe they won their independence from a nation other than Britain.

All through human history pandemics/epidemics/plagues have shut down the entire planet, sometimes countries even suffered mortality rates of 50%.
It's happened before. It will happen again, because biology is a complex topic... And when you have brain dead presidents that are telling people to take hydroxychloroquine to cure a disease... Well that doesn't help either.

People beliefs is thus irrelevant when scientifically and statistically it's more than possible.

Soundwave said:

I remember even sitting on New Years Eve 2019, just a few weeks before shit would hit the fan, and we are kicking back having beers at a party and the news report of the quarantined Japanese cruise ship with COVID on it came on and everyone was having a laugh about it and how much a bizarre situation it was, but the feeling was very strongly "that shit will just stay over there and never come here". 

Anecdotes are a great thing. But also a logical fallacy and thus irrelevant.

Soundwave said:

If an AI gains enough intelligence and it really figures it doesn't need 9 billion humans around, it won't be as cinematic as Skynet/Terminator, it'll probably just do something simple, like quietly in the background work on releasing something into the air or water supply or a virus that can rapidly spread itself.  

There is no evidence or past precedent that would point to such a thing happening.

Contrary to popular belief, most systems that are "integral" to providing a specific service tend not to be networked to the world wide web for stupidly obvious reasons.

And what chemical? And how would it disperse it? Where would it disperse it? How will it cover the entire planet? Do you know how many tonnes of chlorine you would require to displace Oxygen enough to wipe out all human life? Let's just say. We don't have enough of it.

There is zero evidence to substantiate your proposition, the only thing you have is a very active fear-mongering imagination.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

AI modeling is more likely to save lives than take lives. Modeling medical will expedite things like cancer treatments. AI can be leveraged to model environmental impact. AI has a wide variety of great benefits.

Edit

And don't look now but AMD is going AI heavy.

https://www.destructoid.com/amd-says-2024-will-be-a-big-year-for-its-ai-upscaling-efforts/



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One of the biggest issues I have with the x-risk arguments is that they don't consider how much A.I can mitigate other x-risks. 

Climate change and its effects, for example, is far more likely to cause human extinction in my opinion than some fantasy unaligned singleton. 

Likewise, with demographic collapses that are occurring in developed countries due to low birth-rates. 

When accounting for the x-risk of A.I we need to consider other x-risks and how A.I can be used to reduce them.

And that is beyond the basic benefits, like for example how we solved the protein-folding problem using AlphaFold.



Pemalite said:
CaptainExplosion said:

Where's your proof that Switch 2 is based around AI tools?

And even if I accepted AI advancements doesn't mean I want it to nuke us.

It's only natural for the Switch successor have A.I upscaling, whether it uses DLSS, XESS, FSR or a bespoke solution, A.I. is in the next Switch as  developers are leveraging it across the entire industry. FSR with A.I upscaling should be back-ported to the Xbox One, Playstation 4 and Switch hardware.

Contrary to popular belief you don't need a ton of "tensor" or FP8 capability to drive A.I. algorithms either, you can do it on conventional FP16/FP32/FP64/INT8/INT16 shader hardware.

Where is your evidence that A.I. will be capable of nuking us?

You cannot DEMAND evidence from someone else and then make a baseless assertion not based on fact and without evidence, it's blatantly hypocritical.

Soundwave said:

I simply used that as an example, which pandemics have shut down the entire world and forced people everywhere to have to lock down in their homes, closed schools, shut down all pro sports leagues, shut down all travel, cancelled the Olympics, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. 

My point is most people wouldn't have believed that possible. If I said this was going to happen 5 1/2 years ago on this board would one single person believe it? No fucking chance, lol.

To be fair... Most people are stupid, it's the individual that can stand out and be smart.

Remember 1 in 4 Americans believe that the sun revolves around the Earth with the Earth at the center of the Solar system.
Conversely 1 in 4 Americans believe they won their independence from a nation other than Britain.

All through human history pandemics/epidemics/plagues have shut down the entire planet, sometimes countries even suffered mortality rates of 50%.
It's happened before. It will happen again, because biology is a complex topic... And when you have brain dead presidents that are telling people to take hydroxychloroquine to cure a disease... Well that doesn't help either.

People beliefs is thus irrelevant when scientifically and statistically it's more than possible.

Soundwave said:

I remember even sitting on New Years Eve 2019, just a few weeks before shit would hit the fan, and we are kicking back having beers at a party and the news report of the quarantined Japanese cruise ship with COVID on it came on and everyone was having a laugh about it and how much a bizarre situation it was, but the feeling was very strongly "that shit will just stay over there and never come here". 

Anecdotes are a great thing. But also a logical fallacy and thus irrelevant.

Soundwave said:

If an AI gains enough intelligence and it really figures it doesn't need 9 billion humans around, it won't be as cinematic as Skynet/Terminator, it'll probably just do something simple, like quietly in the background work on releasing something into the air or water supply or a virus that can rapidly spread itself.  

There is no evidence or past precedent that would point to such a thing happening.

Contrary to popular belief, most systems that are "integral" to providing a specific service tend not to be networked to the world wide web for stupidly obvious reasons.

And what chemical? And how would it disperse it? Where would it disperse it? How will it cover the entire planet? Do you know how many tonnes of chlorine you would require to displace Oxygen enough to wipe out all human life? Let's just say. We don't have enough of it.

There is zero evidence to substantiate your proposition, the only thing you have is a very active fear-mongering imagination.

No one really got COVID right, so perhaps humanity as a species isn't as smart as they think they are. If they did it should have been stopped before it spread everywhere. We are arrogant, careless, and mistake prone, even the best of us. That's not anecdotal either. 

There is no past precedent because where exactly would you get a past precedent? We've had computers for what? Really 70 years only? That's nothing. There's nothing to prepare us for what is coming, Siri on an iPhone doesn't prepare you for shit, nothing in our past is going to tell you anything about this kind of a future. 

An intelligence that's allowed to keep growing and advancing in years or even decades what took monkeys/apes/humans hundreds of thousands of years of evolution to achieve, there's no way to predict what it might do, how much it could learn, or what it could be capable of. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 06 March 2024

Maybe if we had AI we could have predicted, tracked and handled covid better.



Chrkeller said:

Maybe if we had AI we could have predicted, tracked and handled covid better.

You really want to co-exist with an intelligence that is smarter than any human on the planet? 

You really can't see how that could go very wrong very quickly? 

A human being is not being malicious (in most cases) when they have a fly in the room. But if the fly is buzzing all night long and the human decides to squash it dead with a newspaper, it's not personal. The person just has reached a point where it doesn't want to co-exist with a fly because it's trying to get some sleep, the fly was too stupid to understand it's existence was at threat by bothering the human. 

Now think about your enthusiasm for this kind of a scenario long and hard once again. 

Yes, it might help you with COVID or cancer or whatever, wonderful. But once it reaches that level of intelligence, it may also decide a few years down the road that's it's tired of just working for a bunch of morons that are beneath its intelligence level, and then good luck. 



Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

Maybe if we had AI we could have predicted, tracked and handled covid better.

You really want to co-exist with an intelligence that is smarter than any human on the planet? 

You really can't see how that could go very wrong very quickly? 

A human being is not being malicious (in most cases) when they have a fly in the room. But if the fly is buzzing all night long and the human decides to squash it dead with a newspaper, it's not personal. The person just has reached a point where it doesn't want to co-exist with a fly because it's trying to get some sleep, the fly was too stupid to understand it's existence was at threat by flying around.  

Now think about your enthusiasm for this kind of a scenario long and hard once again. 

Yes, it might help you with COVID. It may also decide a few years down the road that's it's tired of just working for a bunch of morons that are beneath its intelligence level, and then good luck. 

I'm honestly not worried.  I'm far more concerned about putin and trump than I am with skynet.  US might not have a democracy and a madmen with nuclear codes.  AI is the least of my concerns.  AI would make a better president.