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Forums - Politics Discussion - Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

the-pi-guy said:
zorg1000 said:

Just out of curiosity which countries are considered capitalistic and which are considered socialistic?

The definition of a socialist country from what I've seen has basically ranged from "socialism is when the government offers things resembling safety nets" to "socialism is only when the state is dissolved".

Actually I think I've seen some people go even further, that socialism can only happen if every state has dissolved, because that's the only way to actually take ownership of your own work.

I think the range is even further than that. To many conservatives, Socialism is simply any economic policy they disagree with just like any social policy they disagree with is considered woke.



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zorg1000 said:
the-pi-guy said:

The definition of a socialist country from what I've seen has basically ranged from "socialism is when the government offers things resembling safety nets" to "socialism is only when the state is dissolved".

Actually I think I've seen some people go even further, that socialism can only happen if every state has dissolved, because that's the only way to actually take ownership of your own work.

I think the range is even further than that. To many conservatives, Socialism is simply any economic policy they disagree with just like any social policy they disagree with is considered woke.

I think the original question was has anyone visited a country that has a socialist economy?

And that answer is no, there are no pure socialist countries. The closest, I think is a social democratic, progressive or state socialist nations. Socialism was originally created as an alternative to capitalism, focusing on improving the working class and creating a more egalitarian society. It tried to stop class wars between those that owned property and those that didn’t.

I think only three countries after WWII tried to have a socialist economy, Israel, Britain, and India. But they eventually gave up on it.



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the-pi-guy said:
zorg1000 said:

Just out of curiosity which countries are considered capitalistic and which are considered socialistic?

The definition of a socialist country from what I've seen has basically ranged from "socialism is when the government offers things resembling safety nets" to "socialism is only when the state is dissolved".

Actually I think I've seen some people go even further, that socialism can only happen if every state has dissolved, because that's the only way to actually take ownership of your own work.

"Socialism is an economic and political philosophy encompassing diverse economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

That is pretty independent from the existence of state. Basically it means factories aren't privately owned. The actual socialist countries in the last century implemented that by state ownership of factories. There are other possibilities, like a cooperative.

Last edited by Mnementh - on 20 May 2024

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Chrkeller said:
zorg1000 said:

Just out of curiosity which countries are considered capitalistic and which are considered socialistic?

I suppose it is some what opinion?  I grew up in the US.  Moved a few years to Europe and came back to US. Ir changed my political beliefs a good chunk.

Is it opinion? I’m pretty sure there are no socialist countries nor purely capitalist countries in the EU/OECD, they are all mixed economies that vary in the size/scope of their safety nets & regulations.

Which European countries? And what specifically about them seemed worse?



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zorg1000 said:
Chrkeller said:

I suppose it is some what opinion?  I grew up in the US.  Moved a few years to Europe and came back to US. Ir changed my political beliefs a good chunk.

Is it opinion? I’m pretty sure there are no socialist countries nor purely capitalist countries in the EU/OECD, they are all mixed economies that vary in the size/scope of their safety nets & regulations.

Which European countries? And what specifically about them seemed worse?

How many did I visit while living in Europe?  A whole bunch.  Scotland, Germany, Austria, croatia, Switzerland, UK, Ireland, Italy, France, Denmark, Sweden, Norway.  Probably a few others.

Standard of living.  Wages for high earners.  Overall affluency.  Innovation.  STEM programs.

Granted Europeans tend to be happier, easier going and healthier.  More family oriented. 

Edit

Sweden and Germany were outliers.  I found both quite innovative.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 20 May 2024

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Mnementh said:

"Socialism is an economic and political philosophy encompassing diverse economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

That is pretty independent from the existence of state. Basically it means factories aren't privately owned. The actual socialist countries in the last century implemented that by state ownership of factories. There are other possibilities, like a cooperative.

Some socialists will argue that the State exists solely to protect the ruling class, and that without there being a ruling class, the state is no longer necessary. 

I'm not saying that the actual definition requires it, but some people have the opinion that it does. And on the other end of it, as Zorg pointed out that some conservatives frequently feel that any economic policy they disagree with is socialism.



Chrkeller said:
zorg1000 said:

Is it opinion? I’m pretty sure there are no socialist countries nor purely capitalist countries in the EU/OECD, they are all mixed economies that vary in the size/scope of their safety nets & regulations.

Which European countries? And what specifically about them seemed worse?

How many did I visit while living in Europe?  I whole bunch.  

Standard of living.  Wages for high earners.  Overall affluency.  Innovation.  

I guess I’m more curious in specifics, which ones did you live in (not visit) and what is your criteria for those things? And are looking at this with the perspective of a millionaire or talking about the average person?



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zorg1000 said:
Chrkeller said:

How many did I visit while living in Europe?  I whole bunch.  

Standard of living.  Wages for high earners.  Overall affluency.  Innovation.  

I guess I’m more curious in specifics, which ones did you live in (not visit) and what is your criteria for those things? And are looking at this with the perspective of a millionaire or talking about the average person?

Average person.  I have lived many places.  But as an easy example many out of Uni bike to work and are in shared living.  Because wages are way lower in STEM and the cost of living is way higher.  Comparatively in the US getting a STEM degree means house + car.  

Edit

Another thing that was odd to me is in many countries cars don't come with a spare tire.  Because if you get a flat you aren't suppose to change the tire yourself.  You are suppose to call a government agency to do it for safety.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 20 May 2024

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Chrkeller said:

Another thing that was odd to me is in many countries cars don't come with a spare tire.  Because if you get a flat you aren't suppose to change the tire yourself.  You are suppose to call a government agency to do it for safety.  

Which countries are those? 

I am finding information that apparently in some countries, there's no longer a legal requirement to have a spare, so car companies are removing the spare. 

That sounds more like corporations causing issues, as opposed to the government. 



the-pi-guy said:
Chrkeller said:

Another thing that was odd to me is in many countries cars don't come with a spare tire.  Because if you get a flat you aren't suppose to change the tire yourself.  You are suppose to call a government agency to do it for safety.  

Which countries are those? 

I am finding information that apparently in some countries, there's no longer a legal requirement to have a spare, so car companies are removing the spare. 

That sounds more like corporations causing issues, as opposed to the government. 

There are multiple.  UK being an example.  I have a UK driver's license and took the written test.  You are 100% wrong.  How many years have you lived in Europe?

One of the questions in the test is what to do when you get a flat.  You call someone, you are 100% not suppose to change your tire.  It is a government regulation.  I remember because I clicked "change your tire" and got it wrong on my test.  



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