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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How will be Switch 2 performance wise?

 

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Phenomajp13 said:
zeldaring said:

I never doomed them at all i said it might slow down switch 2 sales and hype down  a bit, but that's for another thread. He makes a excuse for everything 256gb is not enough space for something expected higher then ps4 level graphics, especially when permalite gives him great reasons as to why people will end up with games that don't even work in the far future. 

He doesn't make excuses at all because that is his opinion. I share the same, I absolutely do not keep all of my games downloaded and I also doubt millions of other consumers do as well. It's nice and all that Permalite is worried about his physical games in the future and it's unfortunate but it doesn't mean I expect Nintendo to put as much storage in the console as possible because they absolutely will upcharge us. Permalite is right about us as consumers should want as much as possible for our money but we live in the real world where corporate greed will take precedence. What type of prices are you and/or Permalite expecting for Switch 2? What device delivers 256 GB of on board storage with all the other stuff we expect from Switch 2 with a dock for 399.99? Steam Deck 256 GB with LCD and no dock is 399.99. Do you think Nintendo should aim for 399.99 or less if possible? Or should they aim higher and put in more storage?

Comparing steamdeck to switch 2 is like comparing pc box to a ps5 in 2020 these are mainstream products that will sell 90 to 120 million. Steam Deck has only sold like 2 million ww since launch. Nintendo will be getting mass produced deals with much better prices. They can do much better but they will focusing on gimmicks and turning a nice profit day one.



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zeldaring said:
Phenomajp13 said:

He doesn't make excuses at all because that is his opinion. I share the same, I absolutely do not keep all of my games downloaded and I also doubt millions of other consumers do as well. It's nice and all that Permalite is worried about his physical games in the future and it's unfortunate but it doesn't mean I expect Nintendo to put as much storage in the console as possible because they absolutely will upcharge us. Permalite is right about us as consumers should want as much as possible for our money but we live in the real world where corporate greed will take precedence. What type of prices are you and/or Permalite expecting for Switch 2? What device delivers 256 GB of on board storage with all the other stuff we expect from Switch 2 with a dock for 399.99? Steam Deck 256 GB with LCD and no dock is 399.99. Do you think Nintendo should aim for 399.99 or less if possible? Or should they aim higher and put in more storage?

Comparing steamdeck to switch 2 is like comparing pc box to a ps5 in 2020 these are mainstream products that will sell 90 to 120 million. Steam Deck has only sold like 2 million ww since launch. Nintendo will be getting mass produced deals with much better prices. They can do much better but they will focusing on gimmicks and turning a nice profit day one.

Any products from anyone? Apple? Samsung? Anyone that could give me an idea of how this rumored Switch 2's price of lets say 399.99 is still too high for what Nintendo is offering with 256 GB? Also gimmicks? Delivering gimmicks is why Nintendo is so unpredictable. It's seals their place in the market and always offers a possibility of growth. Constantly offering just more powerful hardware is why Sony's market is constantly under attack by other ecosystems such Xbox, PC (Steam & Windows), and even Nintendo. 



Phenomajp13 said:
zeldaring said:

Comparing steamdeck to switch 2 is like comparing pc box to a ps5 in 2020 these are mainstream products that will sell 90 to 120 million. Steam Deck has only sold like 2 million ww since launch. Nintendo will be getting mass produced deals with much better prices. They can do much better but they will focusing on gimmicks and turning a nice profit day one.

Any products from anyone? Apple? Samsung? Anyone that could give me an idea of how this rumored Switch 2's price of lets say 399.99 is still too high for what Nintendo is offering with 256 GB? Also gimmicks? Delivering gimmicks is why Nintendo is so unpredictable. It's seals their place in the market and always offers a possibility of growth. Constantly offering just more powerful hardware is why Sony's market is constantly under attack by other ecosystems such Xbox, PC (Steam & Windows), and even Nintendo. 

You don't remember the wiiu and virtual boy? Gimmicks are hit and miss, Nintendo is basically focusing on the more power approach now probably with a gimmick that doesn't affect pricing too much. 



1) 256 gb is small and won't hold much
2) S2 will have expandable storage, so item 1 isn't a huge deal



zeldaring said:
Phenomajp13 said:

He doesn't make excuses at all because that is his opinion. I share the same, I absolutely do not keep all of my games downloaded and I also doubt millions of other consumers do as well. It's nice and all that Permalite is worried about his physical games in the future and it's unfortunate but it doesn't mean I expect Nintendo to put as much storage in the console as possible because they absolutely will upcharge us. Permalite is right about us as consumers should want as much as possible for our money but we live in the real world where corporate greed will take precedence. What type of prices are you and/or Permalite expecting for Switch 2? What device delivers 256 GB of on board storage with all the other stuff we expect from Switch 2 with a dock for 399.99? Steam Deck 256 GB with LCD and no dock is 399.99. Do you think Nintendo should aim for 399.99 or less if possible? Or should they aim higher and put in more storage?

Comparing steamdeck to switch 2 is like comparing pc box to a ps5 in 2020 these are mainstream products that will sell 90 to 120 million. Steam Deck has only sold like 2 million ww since launch. Nintendo will be getting mass produced deals with much better prices. They can do much better but they will focusing on gimmicks and turning a nice profit day one.

From a business perspective that is spot on, but from a consumer perspective it is a problem.

I love the idea of the Steam deck, to carry my steam library on the go plus Retroarch.  However, $550 for, at best, 1050 ti performance is steep.  I'm hoping the Deck 2 is a better offering.  

I don't mind paying more for PC but I expect performance to be attached.  



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Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:

Then you just re-download the game if your SD Card has an issue, it's not that big of a deal. You should be able to keep your save files on the main storage.

Downloading a Terabytes worth of data is not a 5 minute job.

Soundwave said:

You should be able to keep your save files on the main storage.

Or via Cloud... If it wasn't hidden behind a pay wall.

Soundwave said:

I've used SD Cards with the Switch and even prior to that for years and have never had a problem.

Anecdotal evidence is only evidence for anecdotes.
In short... Your argument here is completely irrelevant.

The electrical charge stored in NAND's cells discharge over time. This is a blatant fact, we are beholden to the laws of Physics, your anecdote cannot erase this fundamental fact.

Factors that accelerate the issue are: How often it's used/recharged, current wear rate, temperature it's stored at, silicon quality, geometry transistor size and more.

There is a reason -why- data centers don't use NAND Flash to store data for archival purposes, it's extremely unreliable... Anyone who argues otherwise literally has no idea.

It's also the reason why consoles like the WiiU will brick themselves if you don't use them.
https://www.techpowerup.com/305736/long-term-nintendo-wii-u-owners-experiencing-bricked-systems

Soundwave said:

This isn't just an issue for Switch 2, for PS5/XBox most people are already not keeping all their games actually downloaded all at once on their internal storage. 

Playstation 5 and Xbox Series has the option of augmenting their storage with non-NAND options.

Soundwave said:

It's simply the reality of an industry that's going all digital, you keep the games you play most on board, delete stuff you don't play as much in the moment, if you want to revisit those games you can always put it on cold storage or back up or redownload it. 

I was a PC gamer living in the digital-only world years before consoles went digital.

It's convenient having a wide-array of titles installed and updated and ready to play.

Again... I don't have the time nor care factor to install and update a title because I feel like playing it on a whim, that crap can take hours... I've literally turned my console off and jumped on my PC because of that inconvenience.

Soundwave said:

The important thing for Switch 2 is the main storage is large enough to handle any single kind of game, that way the publisher can port to the system and be assured a player if they really want to can play the digital only version of the game without needing an add-on SD Card or whatever. 

No. It's important to hold multiple large games. Not singular.

It's a portable device first and foremost, cellular data tends to be relatively expensive compared to other options, you aren't going to uninstall a 100GB+ game and download another 100GB+ game to play on the bus.

Not an issue if you can have both installed.

Chrkeller said:

But I get your point.  Based on rumors/leaks, the Deck 2 and Ally 2 will outclass the S2 with ease..  but neither of them will have Nintendo S2 1st party games.

You haven't been paying attention then. PC has been getting Switch exclusives... And sometimes even before release date on Switch.
Legalities are a little bit meh, but they are available.. And run and look better.

LegitHyperbole said:

I never realised it took more graphics power. Maybe they can personalise the screen to look similar like some TV's that have that fake HDR dynamic preset, have to assume they'll use OLED also. 

It does. It's why Microsoft increased the clockrates on the Xbox One S over the base Xbox One.

Oneeee-Chan!!! said:

If Nintendo and Nvidia are going to use 4nm, it would be wise for them to adopt Lovelace as is rather than go through the trouble and port the Samsung Ampere to tsmc.

Honestly, I am okay with Ampere, it's capable with the features like Ray Tracing.
I just want more Ram to let the current hypothetical ampere-based GPU breathe.

And going Ampere would certainly be a cost-cutting measure as it's not the latest and greatest nVidia has to offer, so Nintendo likely got a good deal on the SoC's.

Now I am scare to turn on my Wii U. it's a shame that they built something so poorly design.

Sadly switch games can only be copied to SD and not from SD to HDD for col storage. Even if you do find a way to clone say the SD card and store on PC, it seems like that game data is tied to you console anyway, so a new switch wouldn't even play the data.

It's actually making me want to now start considering buying a high end PC and emulating consoles. 



 

 

Cobretti2 said:

Sadly switch games can only be copied to SD and not from SD to HDD for col storage. Even if you do find a way to clone say the SD card and store on PC, it seems like that game data is tied to you console anyway, so a new switch wouldn't even play the data.

The data on the SD card is bound to your current Switch, but you can copy the data on it to an HDD (for backup purposes) or to another SD card without any problems. In 2017 I started with a 128 GB SD card for my Switch, later I copied the data to a 200 GB SD card, later I copied the data to a 400 GB SD card.

If the old SD card gets damaged, you can copy a backup from your HDD to a new SD card and it should work on the same Switch.

I just started a new backup of my Switch SD card (320 GB data). Transfer speed is ~60 MB/s, so the backup process should be finished after 90 minutes.

Last edited by Conina - on 27 May 2024

Cobretti2 said:
Pemalite said:

Downloading a Terabytes worth of data is not a 5 minute job.

Soundwave said:

You should be able to keep your save files on the main storage.

Or via Cloud... If it wasn't hidden behind a pay wall.

Anecdotal evidence is only evidence for anecdotes.
In short... Your argument here is completely irrelevant.

The electrical charge stored in NAND's cells discharge over time. This is a blatant fact, we are beholden to the laws of Physics, your anecdote cannot erase this fundamental fact.

Factors that accelerate the issue are: How often it's used/recharged, current wear rate, temperature it's stored at, silicon quality, geometry transistor size and more.

There is a reason -why- data centers don't use NAND Flash to store data for archival purposes, it's extremely unreliable... Anyone who argues otherwise literally has no idea.

It's also the reason why consoles like the WiiU will brick themselves if you don't use them.
https://www.techpowerup.com/305736/long-term-nintendo-wii-u-owners-experiencing-bricked-systems

Soundwave said:

This isn't just an issue for Switch 2, for PS5/XBox most people are already not keeping all their games actually downloaded all at once on their internal storage. 

Playstation 5 and Xbox Series has the option of augmenting their storage with non-NAND options.

I was a PC gamer living in the digital-only world years before consoles went digital.

It's convenient having a wide-array of titles installed and updated and ready to play.

Again... I don't have the time nor care factor to install and update a title because I feel like playing it on a whim, that crap can take hours... I've literally turned my console off and jumped on my PC because of that inconvenience.

Soundwave said:

The important thing for Switch 2 is the main storage is large enough to handle any single kind of game, that way the publisher can port to the system and be assured a player if they really want to can play the digital only version of the game without needing an add-on SD Card or whatever. 

No. It's important to hold multiple large games. Not singular.

It's a portable device first and foremost, cellular data tends to be relatively expensive compared to other options, you aren't going to uninstall a 100GB+ game and download another 100GB+ game to play on the bus.

Not an issue if you can have both installed.

You haven't been paying attention then. PC has been getting Switch exclusives... And sometimes even before release date on Switch.
Legalities are a little bit meh, but they are available.. And run and look better.

LegitHyperbole said:

I never realised it took more graphics power. Maybe they can personalise the screen to look similar like some TV's that have that fake HDR dynamic preset, have to assume they'll use OLED also. 

It does. It's why Microsoft increased the clockrates on the Xbox One S over the base Xbox One.

Honestly, I am okay with Ampere, it's capable with the features like Ray Tracing.
I just want more Ram to let the current hypothetical ampere-based GPU breathe.

And going Ampere would certainly be a cost-cutting measure as it's not the latest and greatest nVidia has to offer, so Nintendo likely got a good deal on the SoC's.

Now I am scare to turn on my Wii U. it's a shame that they built something so poorly design.

Sadly switch games can only be copied to SD and not from SD to HDD for col storage. Even if you do find a way to clone say the SD card and store on PC, it seems like that game data is tied to you console anyway, so a new switch wouldn't even play the data.

It's actually making me want to now start considering buying a high end PC and emulating consoles. 

Emulation shocking works well.  Not sure how high end it needs to be.  



Conina said:
Cobretti2 said:

Sadly switch games can only be copied to SD and not from SD to HDD for col storage. Even if you do find a way to clone say the SD card and store on PC, it seems like that game data is tied to you console anyway, so a new switch wouldn't even play the data.

The data on the SD card is bound to your current Switch, but you can copy the data on it to an HDD (for backup purposes) or to another SD card without any problems. In 2017 I started with a 128 GB SD card for my Switch, later I copied the data to a 200 GB SD card, later I copied the data to a 400 GB SD card.

If the old SD card gets damaged, you can copy a backup from your HDD to a new SD card and it should work on the same Switch.

I just started a new backup of my Switch SD card (320 GB data). Transfer speed is ~60 MB/s, so the backup process should be finished after 90 minutes.

I thought the SD card would be encrypted and prevent copy to HDD via say windows? How o you do it I haven't been able to find a clear answer?

ON a side note, how awesome would it be if Nintendo at the end of the Switch life, released firmware that doesn't tie your game data to a console. Then can easily replace your broken switch.



 

 

zeldaring said:
Phenomajp13 said:

He doesn't make excuses at all because that is his opinion. I share the same, I absolutely do not keep all of my games downloaded and I also doubt millions of other consumers do as well. It's nice and all that Permalite is worried about his physical games in the future and it's unfortunate but it doesn't mean I expect Nintendo to put as much storage in the console as possible because they absolutely will upcharge us. Permalite is right about us as consumers should want as much as possible for our money but we live in the real world where corporate greed will take precedence. What type of prices are you and/or Permalite expecting for Switch 2? What device delivers 256 GB of on board storage with all the other stuff we expect from Switch 2 with a dock for 399.99? Steam Deck 256 GB with LCD and no dock is 399.99. Do you think Nintendo should aim for 399.99 or less if possible? Or should they aim higher and put in more storage?

Comparing steamdeck to switch 2 is like comparing pc box to a ps5 in 2020 these are mainstream products that will sell 90 to 120 million. Steam Deck has only sold like 2 million ww since launch. Nintendo will be getting mass produced deals with much better prices. They can do much better but they will focusing on gimmicks and turning a nice profit day one.

They can probably do better, but that's been their mentality for the most part. Making sure they can profit. Don't most businesses want to make profit for something that's their primary focus? Sony and Microsoft can afford to sell consoles at a loss in the beginning until they can sell for a profit. Nintendo as a company that's primarily a first-party gaming company that just recently started branching out to theme parks and movies/multimedia projects can't afford to waste money or sell at a loss from the start. Previous President Kimishima emphasized on that when the Switch was first being revealed. 

Nintendo won't sell Switch at a loss; plans to ship 2 million units in March | VentureBeat

Unless you can tell me how Nintendo, a company that has no other primary business to lean on when trouble occurs, would be more aggressive than what the Switch 2 is rumored to be without selling at a loss, then by all means.

This is the same company that doesn't even provide high-tech graphics that we see from FFVII Remake/Rebirth, COD, The Last of Us, etc. Even though some people have long requested them to do such thing? I can see Nintendo sticking to art style and graphics that are great, but not necessarily up to what we saw from the Zelda Wii U demo that we like to imagine it to be, and focus on new gameplay opportunities that a stronger console can provide.

Last edited by Kai_Mao - on 27 May 2024