And this is not me saying I don't think 120fps will become common next gen, I just don't think it will be as in demand as 60fps is because diminishing returns applies to FPS as well as resolution.
Last edited by Otter - on 14 August 2025Switch 2 is out! How you classify? | |||
| Terribly outdated! | 3 | 5.26% | |
| Outdated | 1 | 1.75% | |
| Slightly outdated | 14 | 24.56% | |
| On point | 31 | 54.39% | |
| High tech! | 7 | 12.28% | |
| A mixed bag | 1 | 1.75% | |
| Total: | 57 | ||
And this is not me saying I don't think 120fps will become common next gen, I just don't think it will be as in demand as 60fps is because diminishing returns applies to FPS as well as resolution.
Last edited by Otter - on 14 August 2025So I decided to catalog the relatively demanding multiplatform games released so far and how they compare on PS4 vs. Switch 2 vs. Series S. Half of the games in this set (4 out of 8) had higher framerates on Switch 2 than PS4 and 6 of them had higher max resolutions. The Series S was 8/8 and 6/8 respectively. Of course this isn't looking at graphics quality, and effective image quality (which the Switch 2 is advantaged with giving DLSS often has an advantage compared to TAA/FSR 2 at 1080p, with trade offs of course.)
| Game | Switch 2 (Docked) – Resolution | Switch 2 (Docked) – Framerate | PS4 – Resolution | PS4 – Framerate | Series S – Resolution | Series S – Framerate | S2 vs PS4 (Res) | S2 vs PS4 (FPS) | Series S vs PS4 (Res) | Series S vs PS4 (FPS) | Series S vs S2 (Res) | Series S vs S2 (FPS) |
| Apex Legends | 1080p | Nearly-solid 60fps | Variable 720–1080p | Variable 45–60fps (avg ~50) | 1080p | 60fps (120fps mode available) | + | + | + | + | = | + |
| Hogwarts Legacy | 720p → 1080p (DLSS) | 30fps | 864p | 30fps | 1080p (Fidelity) / 900p (Perf) | 30fps (Fidelity), 60fps (Perf) | + | = | + | + | + | + |
| Civilization VII | 4K (Quality) / 1080p (Perf) | 30fps (Quality), 60fps (Perf) | 1080p | 30fps | Variable 1080p–1440p | 60fps | + | + | + | + | - | = |
| Cyberpunk 2077 | 720–1080p (Quality) / 540–1080p (Perf) | 30fps (Quality), 30–40fps (Perf) | 720–900p | 30fps | 1080–1440p (Quality) / 720–1080p (Perf) | 30fps (Quality), 60fps (Perf) | + | = | + | + | + | + |
| Fortnite | 2176×1224 | Stable 60fps | 900–1080p | 60fps (with significant drops) | 1440p (60 mode) / ~1200p avg (120 mode) | 60fps (Performance), 120fps (Ultra Perf) | + | + | + | + | + | + |
| Hitman 3 | 1152p | 30–60fps | 1080p | 30–60fps | 1080p | 60fps | + | = | = | + | = | + |
| No Man's Sky | 1080p (Perf) / 1440p (Quality) | 45–60fps (Perf), 30fps (Quality) | 1080p | 30fps | 1440p (dynamic Perf) / 1440p (Quality) | 60fps (Perf), 30fps (Quality) | + | + | + | + | + | + |
| Street Fighter 6 | 540p native → 1080p via DLSS (1v1 fights) | 60fps (1v1); WT 30–60, 30 in WT battles | 1080p | 60fps (1v1); WT battles 30fps | 1080p | 60fps (all main modes) | = | = | = | + | = | + |
Problems with these comparisons is the 40fps modes are very unstable and no VRR they are not a good experience to people that care about performance. Then these framerate comparisons are not great for example before the bench marks released for Cyberpunk DF would have us believe that the 30fps is on par with Series S quality mode, it's clearly not and even behind the PS4 pro. They even say that Hogwarts run more stable on ps4 cause they checked one area where PS4 ran more stable. Then i see video of apex legends dropping to 40fps in intense battles on switch 2 so it wildly variable they are not doing a deep dive in these old games.
https://youtu.be/Ff-ZINFEu4o?si=-0rsRwtRdLNcBvPh&t=769
| redkong said: Problems with these comparisons is the 40fps modes are very unstable and no VRR they are not a good experience to people that care about performance. Then these framerate comparisons are not great for example before the bench marks released for Cyberpunk DF would have us believe that the 30fps is on par with Series S quality mode, it's clearly not and even behind the PS4 pro. They even say that Hogwarts run more stable on ps4 cause they checked one area where PS4 ran more stable. Then i see video of apex legends dropping to 40fps in intense battles on switch 2 so it wildly variable they are not doing a deep dive in these old games. |
This is a very copey response. The base PS4 also doesn't have VRR support and has the same issue for its unlocked frame-rate games. At least in the Switch 2's case this isn't a hardware limitation, but a firmware one which can be corrected. One of the caveats DF mentioned with the PS4 Pro having seemingly better performance than Switch 2 is that the HDD loading issue can relieve the CPU-load as the CPU waits for assets bottlenecked by the HDD (basically, the multi-dozen second pop-in issue.) So it isn't clear that the PS4 Pro is in fact doing the same amount of work in the same set of frames to make the comparison like-to-like.
The video you shared for Apex shows a very smooth 60fps. There are long periods (2000 - 4000 frames or ~30 seconds - 1 minute) with no drops, and then when it does drop it decreases very smoothly for about 30 frames and increases again very gradually for about another 30 frames, lasting at most 2 seconds.
Compare that to the PS4 (base) version which often stays in the mid to high 40's for hundreds to thousands of frames at a time (there is a segment in this video that it's in the 40's and low 50's for 400 frames/8 seconds :24 - :32, vs. about the 0.5 - 2 second bouts of mid-50's in the example you provided for Switch 2.)
Last edited by sc94597 - on 14 August 2025sc94597 said:
This is a very copey response. The base PS4 also doesn't have VRR support and has the same issue for its unlocked frame-rate games. At least in the Switch 2's case this isn't a hardware limitation, but a firmware one which can be corrected. One of the caveats DF mentioned with the PS4 Pro having seemingly better performance than Switch 2 is that the HDD loading issue can relieve the CPU-load as the CPU waits for assets bottlenecked by the HDD (basically, the multi-dozen second pop-in issue.) So it isn't clear that the PS4 Pro is in fact doing the same amount of work in the same set of frames to make the comparison like-to-like. The video you shared for Apex shows a very smooth 60fps. There are long periods (2000 - 4000 frames or ~30 seconds - 1 minute) with no drops, and then when it does drop it decreases very smoothly for about 30 frames and increases again very gradually for about another 30 frames, lasting at most 2 seconds. Compare that to the PS4 (base) version which often stays in the mid to high 40's for hundreds to thousands of frames at a time (there is a segment in this video that it's in the 40's and low 50's for 400 frames/8 seconds :24 - :32, vs. about the 0.5 - 2 second bouts of mid-50's in the example you provided for Switch 2.) |
I agree with you it's difficult to compare cyberpunk, lets not forget shadows are much higher quality on the PS4/pro and that's one thing most switch 2 and series s lower down to get better performance. In general one could prefer the pro version cause it seems to run better it's nothing crazy. It's not a big step up. We'll how to wait till we get VRR because as right now the experience is not good. Even in handheld it's working right at the moment in most games.
As for apex legends that video was 6 years ago the game might run much better now. Here is another video of apex legends and even the Series s drops frequently, just saying we need proper comparisons to see how much better it actually runs. For example in the DF video they say its mostly 60fps on pro and PS4.
Last edited by redkong - on 14 August 2025| redkong said: I agree with you it's difficult to compare cyberpunk, lets not get shadows are much higher quality on the PS4/pro and that's one thing most switch 2 and series s lower down to get better performance. In general one could prefer the pro version cause it seems to run better it's nothing crazy. It's not a big step up. We'll how to wait till we get VRR because as right now the experience is not good. As for apex legends that video was 6 years ago the game might run much better now. Here is another video of apex legends and even the Series s drops frequently just saying we need proper comparisons to see how much better it actually runs. For example in the DF video they say its mostly 60fps. |
Yes the outdoor shadows are better quality on PS4/PS4 Pro. Everything else (image-clarity, textures, reflections, indoor shadows, etc.) is worse on the last-gen platforms.
As for Apex, there seems to be mixed impressions. For a while performance was somewhat improving, and then it started to decline again with some current-gen focused updates.
Here's the most recent thread I can find on the topic, from players who still play on base PS4. Although these are of course anecdotes. Still if people are noticing without even measuring, I think that is pretty significant.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/1l697u0/does_anyone_still_play_apex_legend_on_a_ps4/
"Yes I still play it on PS4 and it's fine. The performance is meh sometimes but it's pretty much the same as it's always been. It's rarely a locked 60fps and usually between 40-60fps. It's a bit worse on E-District since there's more going on, but usually still at least 30fps. It's pretty rare for it to drop below 30fps or freeze. It's not ideal but still playable, I don't feel like it hurts my gameplay that much and mostly feels fine enough"
"I do and it's a pretty mediocre experience. Add to the fact I have to play at EU-central-1 (200 ms), the 45 fps (during gunfights 35-40) is pretty bad. Half the times idek what or who killed me. But still, it's kinda playable. Reached diamond with it, so it's fine, but not recommended"
"I still do because I have been waiting until gta6 drops to finally upgrade. It is pretty ass now and sometime my fps drops to like 35-40 in gunfights.which is almost as bad as Nintendo switch.
The game used to run 60 fps but they added so much it doesn't run great on last gen console. I still get 60 fps in mixtape mode because a lot less people/small map and I got a consistent 60 fps during that og apex mode with only characters up to Watson and og meta."
Edit: I think everyone is in agreement that fixing VRR would go a long way to making the Switch 2 experience a lot better though.
sc94597 said:
Yes the outdoor shadows are better quality on PS4/PS4 Pro. Everything else (image-clarity, textures, reflections, indoor shadows, etc.) is worse on the last-gen platforms. As for Apex, there seems to be mixed impressions. For a while performance was somewhat improving, and then it started to decline again with some current-gen focused updates. Here's the most recent thread I can find on the topic, from players who still play on base PS4. Although these are of course anecdotes. Still if people are noticing without even measuring, I think that is pretty significant. https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/1l697u0/does_anyone_still_play_apex_legend_on_a_ps4/ "Yes I still play it on PS4 and it's fine. The performance is meh sometimes but it's pretty much the same as it's always been. It's rarely a locked 60fps and usually between 40-60fps. It's a bit worse on E-District since there's more going on, but usually still at least 30fps. It's pretty rare for it to drop below 30fps or freeze. It's not ideal but still playable, I don't feel like it hurts my gameplay that much and mostly feels fine enough" "I do and it's a pretty mediocre experience. Add to the fact I have to play at EU-central-1 (200 ms), the 45 fps (during gunfights 35-40) is pretty bad. Half the times idek what or who killed me. But still, it's kinda playable. Reached diamond with it, so it's fine, but not recommended" "I still do because I have been waiting until gta6 drops to finally upgrade. It is pretty ass now and sometime my fps drops to like 35-40 in gunfights.which is almost as bad as Nintendo switch. The game used to run 60 fps but they added so much it doesn't run great on last gen console. I still get 60 fps in mixtape mode because a lot less people/small map and I got a consistent 60 fps during that og apex mode with only characters up to Watson and og meta." |
DF also noted that some geometry was down graded as well for switch 2 even compared to even PS4. Also PRO has higher over all resolution.
I'm sure Apex runs better i just wanna see a proper comparison. As VRR yes it would make things much better and hopefully they can fix the issues cause it's not even working right in most games in handheld mode.
Last edited by redkong - on 14 August 2025| redkong said: DF also noted that some geometry was down graded as well for switch 2 even compared to even PS4. Also PRO has higher over all resolution. |
The Pro does have a higher internal resolution, but that is without the performance cost that DLSS introduces. If the Switch 2 didn't have DLSS using some of its resources, then it would allocate some of those resources used for DLSS to a higher internal pixel count than it currently does, because DLSS is not free. But they didn't choose to do this because DLSS with the lower internal resolution provides an overall better final image quality than TAA at the higher internal resolution.
As for the geometry point, there are unique scenes/assets where the Switch 2 version has reduced geometry, but Richard then says at 7:28 in the video you shared, "Rerunning Switch 2 against PS4 in the Kabuki run demonstrates a night and day difference in favor of the Nintendo console hybrid. The game presents with swathes of geometry, textures, and shadows missing [on PS4 and PS4 Pro]. A night and day difference."
So overall I think it is safe to say that the Switch 2 isn't "downgraded" on-net as far as mesh complexity/geometry is concerned. The reduced geometry in those few scenes Richard highlighted probably is reduced for optimization given that the Switch 2 version is overall much more complex (mesh-wise) than the PS4/Pro version, to the point that Richard describes it as a "night and day difference" multiple times.
| sc94597 said: So I decided to catalog the relatively demanding multiplatform games released so far and how they compare on PS4 vs. Switch 2 vs. Series S. Half of the games in this set (4 out of 8) had higher framerates on Switch 2 than PS4 and 6 of them had higher max resolutions. The Series S was 8/8 and 6/8 respectively. Of course this isn't looking at graphics quality, and effective image quality (which the Switch 2 is advantaged with giving DLSS often has an advantage compared to TAA/FSR 2 at 1080p, with trade offs of course.)
|
Nice summary; one thing though, Hitman is 1152p as per DF, with DLSS on top of that, so significantly above PS4.
Also just a heads up, Redkong is an alt account so there's no point in engaging with him, he is purely here to downplay and concern troll.
Last edited by curl-6 - on 14 August 2025

| curl-6 said: Just started playing through the Phantom Liberty today, and it's seriously impressive stuff, even more so than the base game. It's a shame there aren't more showpiece titles, with Nintendo's own games so far being rather graphically conservative and rooted in Switch 1 era rendering technology, but at least CD Projekt Red have stepped up and demonstrated what the hardware is really capable of.
Nintendo has targeted 60fps in most of their games since the Gamecube, even on power constrained systems like Wii and Switch 1. They'll almost certainly shoot for 60 in most of their Switch 2 games. |
Not true, lots of Nintendo games don't achieve 60fps, many don't even achieve 30.
Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom, Links Awakening, Echoes of Wisdom, Pokemon Scarlett/Violette, Pokemon Sword/Shield, Pikmin 1+2 HD, Paper Mario 1,000 year door, Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, Super Mario RPG, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Pikmin 4, Smash Bro's Ultimate and more are all games that cannot maintain 60fps, most are 30fps.
Even Donkey Kong Bananza on Switch 2 exhibits frame rate drops on Nintendo's newest console.

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