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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - VGC: Switch 2 Was Shown At Gamescom Running Matrix Awakens UE5 Demo

Chrkeller said:
Oneeee-Chan!!! said:

I haven't read the conversation between you and Soundwave, but this generation of games can and will be marketed to run on the next generation switch.

I just don't see why it is impossible.

It isn't impossible and i agree it will happen.  Sound (and others) are being dishonest and are intentionally mischaracterizing my argument.

But I am happy to clarify in 3 simple points:

1) switch 2 will run modern games 

2) switch 2 ports will be a noticeable and significant downgrade compared to the ps5/series x/pc

3)  the average consumer won't care about the downgrade

The original argument was Sound claiming the switch was going to produce visual fidelity comparable to the ps5 and I disagreed for the reasons Pemalite detailed a few pages ago.  Hence my goalposts comment about Sound.  He is changing his position to what Ring and I have been saying for pages.

It is that simple.

I see
So the point of conflict is whether it is comparable to PS5?

How exactly would you define the comparable?
80% of PS5 60% 40% 20% etc...

Would that be raw rasterization power or would it include DLSS?

Might be good to set some criteria.



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zeldaring said:

That's nice and all but you are forgetting that the switch 2 will probably have 8 hours of battery life and it come at a cost. ray tracing ain't happening. I always here this generation or 2 theory guess what the Xbox was pos home console and switch had the next-gen architecture and was still miles behind or about the wiiu same crap. 

Anyway we discussed enough we will just have to wait till the games come out. 

The original switch had a 2.5 hour battery life in Breath of the Wild and other demanding games. And again, being able to toggle DLSS helps with battery life because you can underclock the GPU and run the game at a lower internal resolution.

ARM is also a much more efficient architecture than x86 at low power profiles. 

You seem confused. When I said "generation ahead" I was talking about GPU generations. It is a fact that Nvidia is a generation ahead of AMD when it comes to raytracing performance. RDNA3 (AMD's current GPU architecture) is competing with Ampere (Nvidia's last architecture) when it comes to ray-tracing. RDNA 2 (AMD's last GPU architecture) was competing with Turing (two generations ago for Nvidia.) 

Nvidia was clever to resell the features they brought into their GPU's for machine-learning and CUDA GPGPU workloads to gaming use-cases. That's why they are a generation ahead. 

Last edited by sc94597 - on 09 September 2023

Soundwave said:
zeldaring said:

That's nice and all but you are forgetting that the switch 2 will probably have 8 hours of battery life and it come at a cost. ray tracing ain't happening. I always here this generation or 2 theory guess what the Xbox was pos home console and switch had the next-gen architecture and was still miles behind or about the wiiu same crap. 

Anyway we discussed enough we will just have to wait till the games come out. 

More bullshit. It would be nice if you realized some people have a memory that goes back past 2019 ... the original Switch had a battery life of 3 hours, some games not even 3 full hours. Did you think nobody would remember that? 

Nintendo was just fine and dandy selling those by the million-load and people were more than fine buying it by the million-load even with only 2 1/2-3 hours of battery life. 

For most people 2-3 hour play sessions are perfectly fine and Nintendo is more than fine doing a die shrink and getting repeat customers buying a later model with better battery life. 

Lol I just googled it said 3-7 hours . So I'm guessing switch will probably be aiming for 5-8.



Oneeee-Chan!!! said:
Chrkeller said:

It isn't impossible and i agree it will happen.  Sound (and others) are being dishonest and are intentionally mischaracterizing my argument.

But I am happy to clarify in 3 simple points:

1) switch 2 will run modern games 

2) switch 2 ports will be a noticeable and significant downgrade compared to the ps5/series x/pc

3)  the average consumer won't care about the downgrade

The original argument was Sound claiming the switch was going to produce visual fidelity comparable to the ps5 and I disagreed for the reasons Pemalite detailed a few pages ago.  Hence my goalposts comment about Sound.  He is changing his position to what Ring and I have been saying for pages.

It is that simple.

I see
So the point of conflict is whether it is comparable to PS5?

How exactly would you define the comparable?
80% of PS5 60% 40% 20% etc...

Would that be raw rasterization power or would it include DLSS?

Might be good to set some criteria.

Correct, comparable is the argument.  Out of the gates the ps5 has performance mode where all the games I have are 60 fps.  The switch 2 isn't matching this performance, thus it isn't comparable for me.  But comparable is subjective and others can decide for themselves if they care about the performance differences.

Meaning the first question is "will there be differences?"  Which is a giant yes.  The second question being "do people care?"  I do but most others won't.  

I do want to genuinely thank you for taking the time and effort to understand my position.  It is appreciated.



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zeldaring said:
Soundwave said:

More bullshit. It would be nice if you realized some people have a memory that goes back past 2019 ... the original Switch had a battery life of 3 hours, some games not even 3 full hours. Did you think nobody would remember that? 

Nintendo was just fine and dandy selling those by the million-load and people were more than fine buying it by the million-load even with only 2 1/2-3 hours of battery life. 

For most people 2-3 hour play sessions are perfectly fine and Nintendo is more than fine doing a die shrink and getting repeat customers buying a later model with better battery life. 

Lol I just googled it said 3-7 hours . So I'm guessing switch will probably be aiming for 5-8.

Try harder next time. Everyone and their grandma knows the original Switch had 2 1/2-3 hour battery life even when running Breath of the Wild. Maybe time to retire that "zeldaring" alt eh? 



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Soundwave said:
zeldaring said:

Lol I just googled it said 3-7 hours . So I'm guessing switch will probably be aiming for 5-8.

Try harder next time. Everyone and their grandma knows the original Switch had 2 1/2-3 hour battery life even when running Breath of the Wild. Maybe time to retire that "zeldaring" alt eh? 

I only borrowed a switch to play totk, and had wiiu so I wouldn't know. Not really a handheld gamer and honestly just like discussing the tech.



sc94597 said:
zeldaring said:

That's nice and all but you are forgetting that the switch 2 will probably have 8 hours of battery life and it come at a cost. ray tracing ain't happening. I always here this generation or 2 theory guess what the Xbox was pos home console and switch had the next-gen architecture and was still miles behind or about the wiiu same crap. 

Anyway we discussed enough we will just have to wait till the games come out. 

The original switch had a 2.5 hour battery life in Breath of the Wild and other demanding games. And again, being able to toggle DLSS helps with battery life because you can underclock the GPU and run the game at a lower internal resolution.

ARM is also a much more efficient architecture than x86 at low power profiles. 

You seem confused. When I said "generation ahead" I was talking about GPU generations. It is a fact that Nvidia is a generation ahead of AMD when it comes to raytracing performance. RDNA3 (AMD's current GPU architecture) is competing with Ampere (Nvidia's last architecture) when it comes to ray-tracing. RDNA 2 (AMD's last GPU architecture) was competing with Turing (two generations ago for Nvidia.) 

Nvidia was clever to resell the features they brought into their GPU's for machine-learning and CUDA GPGPU workloads to gaming use-cases. That's why they are a generation ahead. 

I'll be getting my line ready for you. Just make sure you honor the bet. Lol. ✌️ ☮️



If the Steam Deck can play virtually every single XBox Series X title and would be able to play every PS5 game if Sony would make PC versions available of every game ... then I think the whole "Switch 2 can't possibly run those games" is already been debunked.

I can't even find a major XBox Series X game that doesn't run on the $399.99 Steam Deck due to performance, and frankly all the games look pretty damn good on that little screen. It's not like some hugely compromised version that's barely playable. 

Anyone saying "60 fps or it's a totally different game!" is selling a load of bullshit. By that logic you can say the PS5/XSX don't have next gen versions of any game either since they can't run any of those games at like 120 fps like a higher end PC can and thus the PC version is the only legitimate version. What kind of fucking dumb logic is that.

Last edited by Soundwave - on 09 September 2023

I'd love for the Switch 2 to have a 40hz mode like the Steam Deck. That would be the best sweet-spot in my opinion. 40hz is a huge latency reduction over 30hz, while still being pretty attainable for the hardware.

Would be nice to play Metroid Prime 4 with ray-tracing, DLSS 1080p, at 40hz.



I followed the discussion up to this point.
From what I understood, and to summarize the overall expectations about the Switch 2:

- It should perform in the range of 2-3 tflops when docked.
- Using DLSS tech it will upscale resolution at no cost while saving battery life.
- Overall, thanks to DLSS and the extra available resources, "perceived" graphics quality should be comparable to a 4-5 tflops capable machine doing standard rendering.

And this is perfectly fine to me, for a next-gen Switch, the gap in "perceived" visual quality will be in the order of 10x compared to the current Switch with its 0.5 tflops of raw power. Next-gen Nintendo games (and second parties) will look stunning on this new console, while almost all PS5/Xbox games could be ported easily with expected, but not too limiting, graphics downgrades.

If this is really the case, Nintendo will have hit the mark this time too.

Last edited by JimmyFantasy - on 09 September 2023