By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Will the Switch 2 have some secret sauce? If so, what?

Tagged games:

Pemalite said:
Chrkeller said:

I'll care about RT as soon as it does something other than cut my fps in half. Personally I'm more interested in 120 hz, until a developer demonstrates RT being something other than a gimmick.  Either way I'm excited about Nintendo's next hybrid.  I'm sure it will be a good jump against their current.

Then read my prior post, watch the videos I provided. Clearly there is more to it than *just* cutting your proverbial hyperbole, fps in half.

Also, since when has Nintendo gamers cared about framerates?

Some of the best games on Switch are 30fps experiences like... Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom, Luigi's Mansion 3, Xenoblade, Animal Crossing, Monster Hunter, Octopath, Links Awakening, Mario Odyssey and more, which are all 30fps experiences and sold amazingly well.

Not only that, but just because you have fantastic hardware, does not, has not and will not ever guarantee 60fps. - It's a design choice on the developer, the SNES had 60fps games... And here we are today, 23 years later... And many games are still 30fps.
The SNES has 128kb ram, CPU@3.58Mhz.
The Switch has 4,194,304kb ram, 4 core CPU@1020Mhz.

Hardware isn't the issue, developer design goals are what determines frame-rates.

Which is why we still get Playstation 5 and Xbox Series X titles at 30fps. Developer design goals.

Holding back hardware feature sets because you are literally scared to receive a 30fps experience is absolutely bizarre, you are still going to get 30fps games either way. - I am even willing to put money on it.

You want 60fps? Get a PC.

However, Switch 2 needs hardware feature set parity with the Xbox Series X/S, Playstation 5 and PC, because that ultimately ensures cross-platform ports... And lets be honest, the Switch's 2 hardware is going to be portable and low-end, so it needs every little bit of help it can get in that regard.

The leaked Switch 2 chip, Tegra T239 is at least Ampere based at minimum, Ampere based Nvidia chips in terms of feature set are better than the AMD crap that's in the PS5 and XSX, so on that end I think Nintendo is fine. 

In fact, I think the buzz is Tegra T239 not only is Ampere based but even has Lovelace based aspects, which is like two generations beyond the AMD GPUs in the PS5/XSX. 



Around the Network
Pemalite said:
Chrkeller said:

I'll care about RT as soon as it does something other than cut my fps in half. Personally I'm more interested in 120 hz, until a developer demonstrates RT being something other than a gimmick.  Either way I'm excited about Nintendo's next hybrid.  I'm sure it will be a good jump against their current.

Then read my prior post, watch the videos I provided. Clearly there is more to it than *just* cutting your proverbial hyperbole, fps in half.

Also, since when has Nintendo gamers cared about framerates?

Some of the best games on Switch are 30fps experiences like... Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom, Luigi's Mansion 3, Xenoblade, Animal Crossing, Monster Hunter, Octopath, Links Awakening, Mario Odyssey and more, which are all 30fps experiences and sold amazingly well.

Not only that, but just because you have fantastic hardware, does not, has not and will not ever guarantee 60fps. - It's a design choice on the developer, the SNES had 60fps games... And here we are today, 23 years later... And many games are still 30fps.
The SNES has 128kb ram, CPU@3.58Mhz.
The Switch has 4,194,304kb ram, 4 core CPU@1020Mhz.

Hardware isn't the issue, developer design goals are what determines frame-rates.

Which is why we still get Playstation 5 and Xbox Series X titles at 30fps. Developer design goals.

Holding back hardware feature sets because you are literally scared to receive a 30fps experience is absolutely bizarre, you are still going to get 30fps games either way. - I am even willing to put money on it.

You want 60fps? Get a PC and abandon consoles, especially handhelds.

However, Switch 2 needs hardware feature set parity with the Xbox Series X/S, Playstation 5 and PC, because that ultimately ensures cross-platform ports... And lets be honest, the Switch's 2 hardware is going to be portable and low-end, so it needs every little bit of help it can get in that regard.

Many switch games run at 60 fps as do many ps5 games.  And I have a PC.  You might want to do your homework next time.

And you seem entirely wanting to miss the point.  System resources going to RT or fps...  I'll take fps all day long.  

I'm not impressed with RT.  I've tried it on my ps5 and PC.  Maybe some day I will be impressed, but that day isn't today.



Chrkeller said:

Many switch games run at 60 fps as do many ps5 games.

And many run at 30fps, completely undermining your point and solidifying mine.

We don't get to choose if a game is 30fps or 60fps, it's up to the developer, not the hardware, not the technology, the developer... Otherwise every game since Pong which was released in 1972 from Atari would be 60fps because hardware has gotten orders-of-magnitude faster.

Chrkeller said:

And I have a PC.  You might want to do your homework next time.

Again, I'll repeat myself. Abandon consoles and stick to PC gaming if all your care about is framerate, but leave those who wish to see technological progress and visuals being pushed, be pushed.

Chrkeller said:

And you seem entirely wanting to miss the point.  System resources going to RT or fps...  I'll take fps all day long.  

Again, I have provided EVIDENCE that games can run at 60fps with Ray Tracing.

Again. It's up to the developer.

RT itself is not the issue.

In-fact many PS5 games have Ray Tracing + 60fps caps.
A list can be found here (Again, this thing called evidence.) - https://www.androidcentral.com/list-every-ps5-game-supports-ray-tracing

Soundwave said:

The leaked Switch 2 chip, Tegra T239 is at least Ampere based at minimum, Ampere based Nvidia chips in terms of feature set are better than the AMD crap that's in the PS5 and XSX, so on that end I think Nintendo is fine. 

In fact, I think the buzz is Tegra T239 not only is Ampere based but even has Lovelace based aspects, which is like two generations beyond the AMD GPUs in the PS5/XSX. 

The leaks can't be substantiated as of yet.

The AMD RDNA chips inside the Playstation 5 and Xbox Series X are great chips, their strengths however just don't lay with Ray Tracing as it's based on AMD's first attempt at implementing the technology, but that is okay.

They are powerful mid-range chips that are relatively cost-effective to produce, but their strengths lay with rasterization, even then some games will be 30fps because developers would rather push resolution and visuals over framerate, completely up to the developer.

Tegra is just stupidly energy efficient compared to AMD's APU's, but they are targeting different markets, cost, form factor and TDP's, I am actually excited to see how games perform and look on the latest chip, because we just don't see it being used often.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Chrkeller said:

Many switch games run at 60 fps as do many ps5 games.

And many run at 30fps, completely undermining your point and solidifying mine.

We don't get to choose if a game is 30fps or 60fps, it's up to the developer, not the hardware, not the technology, the developer... Otherwise every game since Pong which was released in 1972 from Atari would be 60fps because hardware has gotten orders-of-magnitude faster.

Chrkeller said:

And I have a PC.  You might want to do your homework next time.

Again, I'll repeat myself. Abandon consoles and stick to PC gaming if all your care about is framerate, but leave those who wish to see technological progress and visuals being pushed, be pushed.

Chrkeller said:

And you seem entirely wanting to miss the point.  System resources going to RT or fps...  I'll take fps all day long.  

Again, I have provided EVIDENCE that games can run at 60fps with Ray Tracing.

Again. It's up to the developer.

RT itself is not the issue.

In-fact many PS5 games have Ray Tracing + 60fps caps.
A list can be found here (Again, this thing called evidence.) - https://www.androidcentral.com/list-every-ps5-game-supports-ray-tracing

Soundwave said:

The leaked Switch 2 chip, Tegra T239 is at least Ampere based at minimum, Ampere based Nvidia chips in terms of feature set are better than the AMD crap that's in the PS5 and XSX, so on that end I think Nintendo is fine. 

In fact, I think the buzz is Tegra T239 not only is Ampere based but even has Lovelace based aspects, which is like two generations beyond the AMD GPUs in the PS5/XSX. 

The leaks can't be substantiated as of yet.

The AMD RDNA chips inside the Playstation 5 and Xbox Series X are great chips, their strengths however just don't lay with Ray Tracing as it's based on AMD's first attempt at implementing the technology, but that is okay.

They are powerful mid-range chips that are relatively cost-effective to produce, but their strengths lay with rasterization, even then some games will be 30fps because developers would rather push resolution and visuals over framerate, completely up to the developer.

Tegra is just stupidly energy efficient compared to AMD's APU's, but they are targeting different markets, cost, form factor and TDP's, I am actually excited to see how games perform and look on the latest chip, because we just don't see it being used often.

The AMD chips inside the PS5/XBSX don't even do ray tracing very well. I mean shit, they don't even do 4K very well (lol). The reason Sony/MS use them is because they're cheap, Nvidia GPUs and architecture is superior but Sony/MS can't afford to use them. 

The reason Nintendo gets Nvidia tech is because the Tegra line hasn't taken off the way Nvidia hoped so Nintendo is kind of the only major customer, so the tech has to be affordable for Nintendo, but Nintendo reaps the benefits of the better architecture. 

Ultimately if tech really matters to you, a PC GPU is going to blow the shit out of a Playstation 5, it's just not even close. 



I think they'll be some sort of quality of life feature.

I imagine it acting like a media hub whilst docked, voice command turning it on, switching between apps, maybe a build in camera providing some unique gameplay capacity (translating your face into characters for mario kart or parts of a level) & taking some of the health features kinect 2 abandoned (being able to read heart beats etc) and tying it into a fitness title. A few mini games that don't require controls etc.

Whereas Switch felt a very simple device, I think Switch 2 will give a more modern tech impression whilst still being fun



Around the Network
Pemalite said:

Some of the best games on Switch are 30fps experiences like... Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom, Luigi's Mansion 3, Xenoblade, Animal Crossing, Monster Hunter, Octopath, Links Awakening, Mario Odyssey and more, which are all 30fps experiences and sold amazingly well.

Super Mario Odyssey runs at 60 fps.

Regardless of that, raytracing would lower the framerate and not provide any gameplay improvement to any of these games or their sequels. Making a specific type of game slightly more immersive is not worth implementing raytracing. It's drawbacks are a 100 times bigger than those that DLSS could have. DLSS can make games run and look better throughout. Raytracing only makes the lighting and shadows look better and needs way more powerful hardware. After like 10 minutes I'd literally stop noticing it.



Otter said:

I think they'll be some sort of quality of life feature.

I imagine it acting like a media hub whilst docked, voice command turning it on, switching between apps, maybe a build in camera providing some unique gameplay capacity (translating your face into characters for mario kart or parts of a level) & taking some of the health features kinect 2 abandoned (being able to read heart beats etc) and tying it into a fitness title. A few mini games that don't require controls etc.

Whereas Switch felt a very simple device, I think Switch 2 will give a more modern tech impression whilst still being fun

Bold: Ring Fit Adventure has that. You can check your pulse by holding your thumb on to the IR sensor on one of the joy-cons.



Why is there a Raytraycing versus DLSS conversation going on? The Switch 2 will do both like any modern Nvidia hardware lol

DLSS is obviously more important



Kakadu18 said:
Pemalite said:

Some of the best games on Switch are 30fps experiences like... Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom, Luigi's Mansion 3, Xenoblade, Animal Crossing, Monster Hunter, Octopath, Links Awakening, Mario Odyssey and more, which are all 30fps experiences and sold amazingly well.

Super Mario Odyssey runs at 60 fps.

Regardless of that, raytracing would lower the framerate and not provide any gameplay improvement to any of these games or their sequels. Making a specific type of game slightly more immersive is not worth implementing raytracing. It's drawbacks are a 100 times bigger than those that DLSS could have. DLSS can make games run and look better throughout. Raytracing only makes the lighting and shadows look better and needs way more powerful hardware. After like 10 minutes I'd literally stop noticing it.

If you honestly believe you'd stop noticing the effects of ray tracing in Metrod Exodus after 10 minutes, you need to get your eyes checked.

A lot of these replies to Permalite's suggestion just seem ridiculously stubborn and exaggerated. Even if you don't consider ray tracing an essential feature, you shouldn't ignore the nuance that certain games can truly implement it in a way that creates a uniquely immersive experience, and in those cases the benefits and cost of ray tracing can absolutely justify a sacrifice in performance.

Defiantly standing by the notion that it's not possible and performance is the be-all end-all for gaming just makes you sound like a luddite. The two biggest games of the year are both locked to 30fps on consoles, because their developers chose to prioritise other features for the experience they desire. You shouldn't already be downplaying the possibility that ray tracing will have that level of importance for future titles, when we've hardly seen the technology properly implemented yet.

Last edited by Shaunodon - on 06 August 2023

Kakadu18 said:
Pemalite said:

Some of the best games on Switch are 30fps experiences like... Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom, Luigi's Mansion 3, Xenoblade, Animal Crossing, Monster Hunter, Octopath, Links Awakening, Mario Odyssey and more, which are all 30fps experiences and sold amazingly well.

Super Mario Odyssey runs at 60 fps.

Regardless of that, raytracing would lower the framerate and not provide any gameplay improvement to any of these games or their sequels. Making a specific type of game slightly more immersive is not worth implementing raytracing. It's drawbacks are a 100 times bigger than those that DLSS could have. DLSS can make games run and look better throughout. Raytracing only makes the lighting and shadows look better and needs way more powerful hardware. After like 10 minutes I'd literally stop noticing it.

This