By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - I Just finished Zelda TotK and I see A LOT of room to improve (SOME MINOR SPOILERS)

SvennoJ said:

Eurogamer raised accessibility concerns for TotK, valid points.
https://www.eurogamer.net/tears-of-the-kingdom-shows-that-without-change-accessibility-in-nintendo-games-will-remain-accidental


My view on the matter and comment on the article:

"If we freely let players do customizations on key assignments and such, I feel like we're letting go of our responsibility as a developer," Aonuma said. "We have something in mind for everybody when we play the game, so that's what we hope players experience and enjoy as well."

Apparently what they had in mind is me throwing my weapon nearly every time I try to use the build menu, not being able to jump while sprinting and generally getting twisted up when you using ultra-hand. Some video explained why you keep pressing rb instead of lb for select (and thus start to throw things when trying to build) as a result of mixing up the 'action' side and 'select' side on the controller for various functions. A simple button assignment would fix a lot already.

What else sucks, very hard to read names on the map, yellow text on mostly yellow background. When the quest said go to Toto lake I could not find it on the map, had to walk up to the tv to study the map. The map is pretty bad in general, useless in overlapping areas. Menu text is too small, contrast is generally bad and the controls and camera are often the worst enemy and the only reason for dying.

The UI is taking up the most time, finding and selecting things. The steps to fuse an inventory item to a weapon are bonkers. Quick select menu is slower than using the full grid menu, down button is wasted on calling your horse while I keep ending up in quick bow select when I want to choose my follow up weapon after firing an arrow.

Plus I wish you could turn off auto climb, no I don't want to run up a tree or a wall when I accidentally bump into one. A different button for collect and picking up a rock, just running by hovering up poes or loot, link picks up a rock again ugh. But please do use the same button for skip, not x for shrine animations, b for dialog and all buttons plus + for cut scenes like blood moons.

I love the game but the UI and controls are the worst I've experienced since, err, BotW. And much worse than BotW. So that statement doesn't make any sense, button assignments would have been a great start. Letting me directly select what to fuse from the menu the next big improvement. Let me directly pick the next item to use while building and have it directly in my (ultra) hand instead of selecting up to 5 and throwing them on the ground around me. Having items filtered by type would help a lot for the quick select menu. Let me cook in batches, or a simple repeat last recipe at least. Let me rotate along a third axis with ultra hand (with the triggers) and option to keep the rotation tool aligned with the object. An option to have control sticks steer based on camera orientation like steering link in the world. Fix the camera so you can actually see where you are going when flying up with a control stick and can see where you are placing things when raising them above your head with ultra-hand.

I'm (mostly) used to all the quirks and issues of the controls and UI by now (150+ hours in) but still routinely press the wrong buttons, mostly confusing throw for power select and confusing the menu buttons (+ and -) I avoid cooking as it's a pain to select 5 ingredients from all over the place to make each dish one by one. I rather just die and continue... Building is still often an exercise in frustration. Not helped by the glow effect obscuring things more when using ultra-hand. And combat is nothing but a series of pauses to select things, and I mostly just go the puff shroom sneak strike route, avoids getting mixed up with the buttons.

What worries me is that if I put this game down for a few weeks, I'll never be able to get back into it with the way the controls are. It's a once and done game for me, just hanging on by the daily grind with the controls. Luckily all that's on offer is a lot of fun, just wish it was a lot more streamlined to play.

But you... can reassign the buttons?

You can reassign the buttons through the Switch itself. Doesn't change the button prompts on screen, but still a pretty adequate solution to mapping the buttons. That seemed to be the primary complaint in the article. Kind of a weird thing to call out Nintendo for, when they have enabled you to remap buttons for literally every game on the Switch. 



Around the Network
JWeinCom said:

But you... can reassign the buttons?

You can reassign the buttons through the Switch itself. Doesn't change the button prompts on screen, but still a pretty adequate solution to mapping the buttons. That seemed to be the primary complaint in the article. Kind of a weird thing to call out Nintendo for, when they have enabled you to remap buttons for literally every game on the Switch. 

Thus only makes it more confusing, plus swapping buttons doesn't let me uncouple sword and bow select from the same button, doesn't let assign a different function to the down button, doesn't let me use the same button to skip stuff, doesn't let me separate collecting loot vs picking up items (should really be an auto loot option), doesn't let me assign a button to climb so Link doesn't do it unintentionally.

But yes you can system wide swap Rb and Lb to have select and throw in the correct positions, but then menu navigation is reversed.
You can swap X and Y so you can run and jump, yet then you can's rush attack.
Swap X and A instead, but then you can't hover up loot while running, hence need that auto loot option.

So no, not a solution at all :/

NintendoPie said:
SvennoJ said:

That's what I'm asking, I don't think I tried activating recall again :) Thanks!

It shot by me so wouldn't have helped, Korok lost. Even stopping the recall would still plummet it off the mountain, although I guess you can recall that again as recall has long range, buy time to get close enough to grab it with ultra-hand. (I reloaded and made a better landing second time)

I had a couple hard shrines last night, more proving grounds, after already making it hard to activate the shrines. Here's a dmg 2 stick, go kill all the constructs. Way to many of those or maybe I'm somehow getting them all in a row lol. Meanwhile the puzzle shrines only seem to get more trivial. The only (small) challenge is to get the treasure, which I leave behind anyway lol. (Crappier shield usually)

Sky island shrines are fun, no clue how many there are but hopefully plenty left to discover. It's often "bring the stone to the shrine" but since it's in the sky it adds a nice aerial challenge. At least finding the shrine first points to the stone, thank you very much for that!

of course. hopefully that does what you were looking for!

the shrines in general are my least favorite part. once i got enough stamina and hearts, i never went in them again. i actually enjoy the combat shrines the most though, massively contrary to popular opinion lol. the "hidden" items in the shrines in TotK are way worse than in BotW so i never bothered with them either.

i feel like i never really ran into too many proving grounds; out of all the shrines i did maybe something like 30% were that type. it may be possible that you are just running into them consistently on accident lol.

Actually I do enjoy them more as well, just found it odd I kept getting one after the other, oh Link lost his clothes again :) The proving ground shrines are better 'puzzles' than the puzzle shrines.
And indeed, I only go for the chests to have a bit more puzzle to do. The rewards are dire.



SvennoJ said:
JWeinCom said:

But you... can reassign the buttons?

You can reassign the buttons through the Switch itself. Doesn't change the button prompts on screen, but still a pretty adequate solution to mapping the buttons. That seemed to be the primary complaint in the article. Kind of a weird thing to call out Nintendo for, when they have enabled you to remap buttons for literally every game on the Switch. 

Thus only makes it more confusing, plus swapping buttons doesn't let me uncouple sword and bow select from the same button, doesn't let assign a different function to the down button, doesn't let me use the same button to skip stuff, doesn't let me separate collecting loot vs picking up items (should really be an auto loot option), doesn't let me assign a button to climb so Link doesn't do it unintentionally.

But yes you can system wide swap Rb and Lb to have select and throw in the correct positions, but then menu navigation is reversed.
You can swap X and Y so you can run and jump, yet then you can's rush attack.
Swap X and A instead, but then you can't hover up loot while running, hence need that auto loot option.

So no, not a solution at all :/

NintendoPie said:

of course. hopefully that does what you were looking for!

the shrines in general are my least favorite part. once i got enough stamina and hearts, i never went in them again. i actually enjoy the combat shrines the most though, massively contrary to popular opinion lol. the "hidden" items in the shrines in TotK are way worse than in BotW so i never bothered with them either.

i feel like i never really ran into too many proving grounds; out of all the shrines i did maybe something like 30% were that type. it may be possible that you are just running into them consistently on accident lol.

Actually I do enjoy them more as well, just found it odd I kept getting one after the other, oh Link lost his clothes again :) The proving ground shrines are better 'puzzles' than the puzzle shrines.
And indeed, I only go for the chests to have a bit more puzzle to do. The rewards are dire.

Fair points. Although, I do not think the level of control customization you're talking about is in any game that I am aware of, or at least not found in most. 



SvennoJ said:

You can swap X and Y so you can run and jump, yet then you can's rush attack.

I was annoyed by this one initially in BotW until I realized you can release B and then press X and it still counts as a running jump, there's a really lenient window for it actually.



JWeinCom said:
SvennoJ said:

Thus only makes it more confusing, plus swapping buttons doesn't let me uncouple sword and bow select from the same button, doesn't let assign a different function to the down button, doesn't let me use the same button to skip stuff, doesn't let me separate collecting loot vs picking up items (should really be an auto loot option), doesn't let me assign a button to climb so Link doesn't do it unintentionally.

But yes you can system wide swap Rb and Lb to have select and throw in the correct positions, but then menu navigation is reversed.
You can swap X and Y so you can run and jump, yet then you can's rush attack.
Swap X and A instead, but then you can't hover up loot while running, hence need that auto loot option.

So no, not a solution at all :/

Fair points. Although, I do not think the level of control customization you're talking about is in any game that I am aware of, or at least not found in most. 

Probably not in most, but I'm comparing it to games with similar amounts of play time, like Elite Dangerous, FS2020, GT7 which all have extensive button mapping options including changing functionality. If your game is suited for 200+ hours of play time, some customization options would be appreciated!

Anyway a lot of accessibility options are pretty standard nowadays, TotK is stuck in the past. (Seriously, smaller text for characters inner thoughts, the text is small enough already)

@mZuzek Yeah doing a running jump isn't that hard with the lenient window, just not ideal. A would be better suited for jump and to initiate climbing (just like A is used for climb down), X to pick up stuff, auto pickup for stuff in range that fits in your inventory and no auto climb.

Building can use a complete overhaul. Without auto-build it would be completely useless in combat. I tried building something new in one of the arenas with multiple stages. No pause between stages of course so I used puff shrooms to 'pause' the enemies on one side, run to the other to take out stuff to build a simple robot. With the infernal rotation controls I didn't get it finished in time, so had to run the enemies back to the other side, puff shroom them again, ran back to where I was building and it was all gone lol. Arenas are apparently wider than the memory range...

I tried again with an icicle sword, freezing the last enemy (of a wave) in place to build. I still had to do that several times and in the end this was the result

With the ultra hand glow it's nearly impossible to see what's the front of things, so I have the flame thrower shooting backwards, the freeze ray pointing backwards on the construct head and the beam emitter somehow snapped up high on the stabilizer and shoots over them... Thus the thing was only a danger to myself, pointless haha. Back to puff stun sneak strike. Still the fastest and safest way to get rid of enemies.

I got to Hateno village to get the Hero's path added to the Purah pad. Turns out it also records all the times I didn't turn the Switch off, so Link stands still a lot during the replay and I've already filled up 2/3rds of the 256 hour buffer. My meanderings through the Depths (shows the Depths layout and all light roots)

Spoiler!


(Only place left to visit is sperm island lower middle)

Hateno done, now I know all about Cece's deep throat fantasy :/



Around the Network
SvennoJ said:

Spoiler!


(Only place left to visit is sperm island lower middle)

Hateno done, now I know all about Cece's deep throat fantasy :/

wait, how do you layer on where you've traversed?! that's so cool.



NintendoPie said:

wait, how do you layer on where you've traversed?! that's so cool.

Go to the science lab in Hateno to get the extra abilities for the Purah pad (Travel Medallion / Hero's path / Sensor+)
I naturally skipped travel medallion (no fast travel for me) but that directs you somewhere else anyway.



Finished the main quest and disagree with a lot of it. I just didn't find all that many Topazes and am just confused about the complaints on the final boss. I think final bosses should ideally be using variations on things you've seen throughout the game, because the whole point is to test the skills you should have mastered throughout the game. But, taking the boss fight as a whole, it does what the OP wanted. It gave a one on one battle, and also introduced some new last minute mechanics to add a dash of excitement. Just didn't do that all in one phase, but I don't see why that should be a problem.

Overall, there are a lot of mentions of other 3D Zelda titles and how certain elements of TOTK didn't match up there. Which is because this is a different kind of game. To take the opposite, we can use Skyward Sword as an example. That one featured a fairly small world and the most linear progression. As a result, they were able to really make sure each moment was well crafted. Obviously not everything worked, but overall, I think traversing the overworld, the dungeons, and especially the boss fights were the best in the series. But, the feeling of discovery and exploration that BOTW and TOTK do so well was sorely lacking.

You can look at it as kind of a spectrum with Skyward Sword on one End, Breath of the Wild on the other, Ocarina of Time being somewhat closer to the Skyward Sword end, Wind Waker being more towards the BOTW side, and maybe Twilight Princess being pretty close to the middle. Everyone's gonna have their preference on what the ideal spot on that spectrum would be, and it seems like the OP would rather it be further towards the Skyward Sword side of the spectrum. Which is a valid opinion (I actually really do like the older Zelda formula and hope we haven't seen the last of it), but not necessarily a valid criticism.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 22 July 2023

20 hours in, and so far not enjoying myself. Hate building things and the controls are a pain, and the melee combat is probably the worst i have played in years. Really annoying how clunky the UI is when it's a huge part of the game, and i'm not a fan of that as well. I will try 15 more hours hopefully it clicks.



Main causes of death in TotK:
- Controls
- Camera
- Yonobo getting in the way while spamming A to pick up loot (and setting off a lethal explosion)

It clicked for me in the Depths, but I am slowly losing interest now I'm exploring the Sky islands. They are a lot more repetitive than the Depths, quite small as well and since control sticks have no throttle, I'm getting tired of having to resort to crash landing all the time. Meanwhile walking through Hyrule just triggers memories of how amazing it was to explore and survive there in BotW, in TotK it's just terrain to run past. Caves and wells are losing their appeal as well, getting too generic.

However the game has settled itself in my evening/night time routine. So I'll just keep plodding along until BG3 drops on PS5, or RE4 gets it's PSVR2 patch. It's no BotW which I wanted to play every spare minute, but it's a comfy blanket by now, slowly making my way around the map. (About 40% done with the top 2 layers)