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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Unpopular opinion (on the internet): BotW and TotK's weapon durability feature is one of these games greatest mechanics

curl-6 said:
zeldaring said:

yea lets just mention sales everytime we criticize something in a game. do you think the gameplay loop in RDR2 or GTAV is amazing. GTAV has sold 180 million units yet the combat is horrible and so the RDR combat. 

You're allowed to criticize it, but claiming that enjoying it isn't a popular opinion doesn't hold water when we're talking about one of the most acclaimed and successful games of the generation.

I didn't care for GTAV personally, but I'd never claim that enjoying it is an unpopular opinion as clearly a huge number of people like it even if I don't.

i never said people are not enjoying BOTW. Breakable weapons are  obviously one  the biggest complaints in game. if you look up games with great combat you never find BOTW on the list. No one really talks about botw having great combat most people say its one of the weakest points. i think to say that breakable weapons are popular is false. lets think about it like this, if it wasn't in the game that would be a huge fix for one of the biggest complaints in the game. I just found a huge poll.  personally the reason i don't like is cause it's the main focus for them in the combat instead of having a skill tree, adding more moves, better enemies with more move sets. fixing the dodge button which has a massive window. its the lazy way of making combat varied.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/i-want-to-talk-about-how-genius-the-weapon-breakability-in-breath-of-the-wild-is.167096/page-25  

Last edited by zeldaring - on 27 May 2023

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Yup, BOTW combat is really mid imo, most of time I just avoid minions because I don't find fighting with them particularly fun. The combat just don't feel "tight" enough, they don't give me any sense of action (even less so in TOTK where I need pausing the fight to select a new fusion to my bows), the defenses and pairing time are a bit clunky. For me fighting are more fun when they force me learn attacking patterns and to master my weapons to know how to properly use them.

The good thing is fighting is indeed mostly optional, so the boring fighting never bother me at all. The occasions I need to fight are so sparse they actually become a bit more enjoyable.



Btw I'm still trying to understand how making the weapons breakable to make players try them all is a good mechanic 

Let's be real: There are only 3 types of weapons in BOTW and TOTK: One hand, two hand and spears. Granted there are boomerangs which are slightly different from other one handed weapons. Combined this with the 3 elemental variations and we have a total of 12 weapons types as far as mechanics are concerned and again most of they will play exactly the same way just with different elemental effects (or lack of elemental effects in the case of non elemental weapons) 

Enemy variety and weakness would be more than enough to force you to rotate all your 12 types of weapons, you don't need to break them at all 

Guys love Zelda, I get it. I love it to. It's one of my favorite games and I get to play it regularly many years after its release because the gameplay looping is really addictive, the puzzles are fun and its very immersive and fun to explore, but come on, not every mechanic introduced here is revolutionary or groundbreaking 



IcaroRibeiro said:

Btw I'm still trying to understand how making the weapons breakable to make players try them all is a good mechanic 

Let's be real: There are only 3 types of weapons in BOTW and TOTK: One hand, two hand and spears. Granted there are boomerangs which are slightly different from other one handed weapons. Combined this with the 3 elemental variations and we have a total of 12 weapons types as far as mechanics are concerned and again most of they will play exactly the same way just with different elemental effects (or lack of elemental effects in the case of non elemental weapons) 

Enemy variety and weakness would be more than enough to force you to rotate all your 12 types of weapons, you don't need to break them at all 

Guys love Zelda, I get it. I love it to. It's one of my favorite games and I get to play it regularly many years after its release because the gameplay looping is really addictive, the puzzles are fun and its very immersive and fun to explore, but come on, not every mechanic introduced here is revolutionary or groundbreaking 

Exactly, when you hear about open world games and what they wish they would take from zelda botw, it's usually the freedom, and not Hand holding design. you will never hear anyone say i wish weapons break like the BOTW. think about any game with great combat and imagine have to switch weapons 5 times in a fight because it keep breaking.



zeldaring said:

curl-6 said:

You're allowed to criticize it, but claiming that enjoying it isn't a popular opinion doesn't hold water when we're talking about one of the most acclaimed and successful games of the generation.

I didn't care for GTAV personally, but I'd never claim that enjoying it is an unpopular opinion as clearly a huge number of people like it even if I don't.

i never said people are not enjoying BOTW. Breakable weapons are  obviously one  the biggest complaints in game. if you look up games with great combat you never find BOTW on the list. No one really talks about botw having great combat most people say its one of the weakest points. i think to say that breakable weapons are popular is false. lets think about it like this, if it wasn't in the game that would be a huge fix for one of the biggest complaints in the game. I just found a huge poll.  personally the reason i don't like is cause it's the main focus for them in the combat instead of having a skill tree, adding more moves, better enemies with more move sets. fixing the dodge button which has a massive window. its the lazy way of making combat varied.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/i-want-to-talk-about-how-genius-the-weapon-breakability-in-breath-of-the-wild-is.167096/page-25  

There are less than 3000 people polled here, so less than 1 in 10,000 of BOTW's sales alone, (plus a fair few of them are probably trolls who never actually played the game) and hobbyists forums like this represent only the most enthusiast minority of gamers, not the mass market. 

Truth is, forums are often way out of touch with the wider market, because most people don't use gaming forums. If you listened to forums you'd think everyone hated the Wii and loved the Gamecube, yet the Wii sold most than four times what the Gamecube did. 

Last edited by curl-6 - on 27 May 2023

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IcaroRibeiro said:

Btw I'm still trying to understand how making the weapons breakable to make players try them all is a good mechanic 

Let's be real: There are only 3 types of weapons in BOTW and TOTK: One hand, two hand and spears. Granted there are boomerangs which are slightly different from other one handed weapons. Combined this with the 3 elemental variations and we have a total of 12 weapons types as far as mechanics are concerned and again most of they will play exactly the same way just with different elemental effects (or lack of elemental effects in the case of non elemental weapons) 

Enemy variety and weakness would be more than enough to force you to rotate all your 12 types of weapons, you don't need to break them at all 

Guys love Zelda, I get it. I love it to. It's one of my favorite games and I get to play it regularly many years after its release because the gameplay looping is really addictive, the puzzles are fun and its very immersive and fun to explore, but come on, not every mechanic introduced here is revolutionary or groundbreaking 

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally love it because it means I'm constantly getting, (or fusing in the case of TOTK) new weapons to try out, and there's more properties weapons can have than just spear/one-handed sword/two handed sword/boomerang and ice/fire/electric, such as sharp or blunt, leaves that blow enemies, certain weapons that bounce enemies, the other day I fused a beehive to a sword and inflicted angry bees on my foes... even down to enjoying the visual variety of their designs.

I also love the resource management aspect of it, deciding how to best deploy whatever limited resources are at my disposal against the situations the game throws at me.



curl-6 said:
zeldaring said:

i never said people are not enjoying BOTW. Breakable weapons are  obviously one  the biggest complaints in game. if you look up games with great combat you never find BOTW on the list. No one really talks about botw having great combat most people say its one of the weakest points. i think to say that breakable weapons are popular is false. lets think about it like this, if it wasn't in the game that would be a huge fix for one of the biggest complaints in the game. I just found a huge poll.  personally the reason i don't like is cause it's the main focus for them in the combat instead of having a skill tree, adding more moves, better enemies with more move sets. fixing the dodge button which has a massive window. its the lazy way of making combat varied.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/i-want-to-talk-about-how-genius-the-weapon-breakability-in-breath-of-the-wild-is.167096/page-25  

There are less than 3000 people polled here, so less than 1 in 10,000 of BOTW's sales alone, (plus a fair few of them are probably trolls who never actually played the game) and hobbyists forums like this represent only the most enthusiast minority of gamers, not the mass market. 

Truth is, forums are often way out of touch with the wider market, because most people don't use gaming forums. If you listened to forums you'd think everyone hated the Wii and loved the Gamecube, yet the Wii sold most than four times what the Gamecube did. 

LOL who cares about the wider market. animal crossing  and pokemon shield are trash games that sell over 30 million is that what you consider quality cause the wider audience buys them. your argument boils down do it has great sales so its not a problem. I enjoy RDR2, GTA6 and BOTW. i'll call like is the combat in those games are bad. now most people don't care about skilled based combat so if thats you. then you  would not care and thats most people

Last edited by zeldaring - on 27 May 2023

zeldaring said:
curl-6 said:

There are less than 3000 people polled here, so less than 1 in 10,000 of BOTW's sales alone, (plus a fair few of them are probably trolls who never actually played the game) and hobbyists forums like this represent only the most enthusiast minority of gamers, not the mass market. 

Truth is, forums are often way out of touch with the wider market, because most people don't use gaming forums. If you listened to forums you'd think everyone hated the Wii and loved the Gamecube, yet the Wii sold most than four times what the Gamecube did. 

LOL who cares about the wider market. animal crossing  and pokemon shield are trash games that sell over 30 million is that what you consider quality cause the wider audience buys them. your argument boils down do it has great sales so its not a problem. I enjoy RDR2, GTA6 and BOTW. i'll call like is the combat in those games are bad. now most people don't care about skilled based combat so if thats you. then you  would not care and thats most people

Animal crossing is not trash. In no way can the new zelda games combat be compared to gta or rdr2, botw/totk may not have the most complex combat system ever but there is enough depth to it to keep it interesting, with mechanics like parrying, dodging, flurry rushes, staggering enemies (sword +shield is harder to stagger enemies than two handed weapon but have slower attack so enemies can attack first or move out of way) elemental abilities, sharp vs blunt weapons, stealth, enemies being able to use any weapon, bows, bullet time etc. There is more than enough to the combat to keep it fun and engaging. Personally the combat in botw/totk is actually my favourite in the series, I've mostly never found combat all that interesting in most zeldas but I actually get a lot of enjoyment from the newer games because of how much more variety and depth there is.

I saw you using sekiro as an example of great combat I love that game and its combat but I would not in a million years want that combat system in a game like botw/totk. Botw/totk combat system is made to be accessible to beginners/younger gamers, like with a lot of nintendo games there is a simple pick and play nature to the games but there is also plenty of depth to be found for more skilled/seasoned gamers especially for people willing to experiment with various mechanics in the games.

You're being a bit hypocritical I think,  you've been saying that most agree with your opinions but when people disprove that you start saying who cares what most think. I saw in some thread you were saying how all old zelda fans wanted the things you wanted in Totk, but as a long time zelda fan I disagree with so much of what you say and most zelda fans I know do as well.



SvennoJ said:
BasilZero said:

Except combat is present in every Zelda game....considering your post history with all the issues you have with other stuff like hardware (gaming PCs, etc) - I think its easy to say in the case of Zelda you just have a skill issue lol.

So far the combat hasn't posed any challenge, just boring obstacles. In BotW the same. Sure the silver Lynels were harder but all you have to do is roll at the right time. That I can do. It's not a matter of skill, it's just not very interesting to do. But that's not limited to Zelda, combat is simply very low on my list of things to like in games. Honestly I can't remember the last time I wanted to continue a game for its combat system.

Have you finished the tutorial yet?



pikashoe said:
zeldaring said:

LOL who cares about the wider market. animal crossing  and pokemon shield are trash games that sell over 30 million is that what you consider quality cause the wider audience buys them. your argument boils down do it has great sales so its not a problem. I enjoy RDR2, GTA6 and BOTW. i'll call like is the combat in those games are bad. now most people don't care about skilled based combat so if thats you. then you  would not care and thats most people

Animal crossing is not trash. In no way can the new zelda games combat be compared to gta or rdr2, botw/totk may not have the most complex combat system ever but there is enough depth to it to keep it interesting, with mechanics like parrying, dodging, flurry rushes, staggering enemies (sword +shield is harder to stagger enemies than two handed weapon but have slower attack so enemies can attack first or move out of way) elemental abilities, sharp vs blunt weapons, stealth, enemies being able to use any weapon, bows, bullet time etc. There is more than enough to the combat to keep it fun and engaging. Personally the combat in botw/totk is actually my favourite in the series, I've mostly never found combat all that interesting in most zeldas but I actually get a lot of enjoyment from the newer games because of how much more variety and depth there is.

I saw you using sekiro as an example of great combat I love that game and its combat but I would not in a million years want that combat system in a game like botw/totk. Botw/totk combat system is made to be accessible to beginners/younger gamers, like with a lot of nintendo games there is a simple pick and play nature to the games but there is also plenty of depth to be found for more skilled/seasoned gamers especially for people willing to experiment with various mechanics in the games.

You're being a bit hypocritical I think,  you've been saying that most agree with your opinions but when people disprove that you start saying who cares what most think. I saw in some thread you were saying how all old zelda fans wanted the things you wanted in Totk, but as a long time zelda fan I disagree with so much of what you say and most zelda fans I know do as well.

He's using sales as a way to prove thats botw has good combat  and people like the breakable weapons i think we can agree there are tons of games that do combat much better then GTAV, and RDR2 but they don't sell even 5% of gtav. basically his argument boils down that gamers on forums like to complain and sales and reviews are what matter.  the problem with the melee combat is very easy to master and really has very little depth, enemies have little variety and bosses are lame the only good enemy was lionell and once you beat him. you mastered the combat the bosses are lame well with very little challenge.

Forget about a sekiro. how about a skill tree, where links actually gets some new cool moves, a proper roll, and a not so forgiving dodge with a huge timing window, but or maybe some proper difficulty modes if you so worried about the kids.   

last thing is i really enjoy these games. hell if GTAV, zelda and red dead 2 had great combat they would be gaming perfection for me

Last edited by zeldaring - on 27 May 2023