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curl-6 said:

"But the other side does evil things too" doesn't make it okay.

Reasonable people on the left should call out the radicalism in our own ranks, cos that shit has driven more people to the right than the likes of Trump or Kirk ever could.

I call out left wing radicalism plenty. 

If you want to make this a both sides issue, then honestly call out both sides. Talk about how terrible it is that left wingers are celebrating, and how terrible it is when right wingers talk about genocide like that. 

If you're only willing to call out some of that behavior, and not even the worst examples of it, you're being dishonest.  



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the-pi-guy said:
curl-6 said:

"But the other side does evil things too" doesn't make it okay.

Reasonable people on the left should call out the radicalism in our own ranks, cos that shit has driven more people to the right than the likes of Trump or Kirk ever could.

I call out left wing radicalism plenty. 

If you want to make this a both sides issue, then honestly call out both sides. Talk about how terrible it is that left wingers are celebrating, and how terrible it is when right wingers talk about genocide like that. 

If you're only willing to call out some of that behavior, and not even the worst examples of it, you're being dishonest.  

The wrongs of the alt right are covered here pretty extensively already, for pages and pages. I've made it clear on multiple occasions that I find Trumpism to be awful. If you want me to come out and condemn it again, then yes, I condemn it.

I'm not criticising the alt left to defend the alt right, I criticise it because in my view it contributed to the conditions that allowed the alt right to thrive.



curl-6 said:
the-pi-guy said:

I call out left wing radicalism plenty. 

If you want to make this a both sides issue, then honestly call out both sides. Talk about how terrible it is that left wingers are celebrating, and how terrible it is when right wingers talk about genocide like that. 

If you're only willing to call out some of that behavior, and not even the worst examples of it, you're being dishonest.  

The wrongs of the alt right are covered here pretty extensively already, for pages and pages. I've made it clear on multiple occasions that I find Trumpism to be awful. If you want me to come out and condemn it again, then yes, I condemn it.

I'm not criticising the alt left to defend the alt right, I criticise it because in my view it contributed to the conditions that allowed the alt right to thrive.

The condition that allowed the alt right to thrive is not found on the left but rather the right cultivating there base to be angry people who are happy when you tell them there problem is caused by other groups of people. It's the right politician and especially Trump not giving any consideration for facts and allowing conspiracy theorist to thrive because it serve them. You even had Trump promoting conspiracy theory in the wake of Paul Pelosi attack. Trump promoting violence against peaceful protester, Trump actually using violence against peaceful protester for a photo op. Trump asking supremacist group to be on stand by, Trump pardoning it's actual violent protester because they like him.
Political violence is increasing simply because politician on the right have made conspiracy theories that demonize people they don't like all what they are about while excusing most heinous act they are doing themselves.


Last edited by EpicRandy - on 19 September 2025

curl-6 said:

The wrongs of the alt right are covered here pretty extensively already, for pages and pages. I've made it clear on multiple occasions that I find Trumpism to be awful. If you want me to come out and condemn it again, then yes, I condemn it.

I'm not criticising the alt left to defend the alt right, I criticise it because in my view it contributed to the conditions that allowed the alt right to thrive.

Don't you argue that left wingers being overly critical of people not on the same view, push people to the right? 

Is the best solution there, to add more criticism? 

More critically, I think your criticism comes across as hollow, when it's so selectively one sided (even to "balance" things out), but also when one side is objectively doing worse things. Some left wingers being schmucks about Charlie Kirk is not the same thing as the US government shutting down speech. Especially when that government is consistently looking the other way, when stuff happens the other way. 

I don't know what the right thing to do is. 

I've been frustrated with Era. I saw a good guy get banned for like a month because the mods thought he misgendered someone, even though he was talking about someone else. I don't think that heavy handedness helps anything. 

But also, I can't let people be bullies. So there has to be some kind of line somewhere.  

I can't pretend that I think I'm doing a good job. But I try to argue the ideas, and not attack the person. (I'm not claiming to be perfect. Frequently I fail, when I feel someone is clearly not interested in actually having a conversation.)



RolStoppable said:
Runa216 said:

(...)

I don't try to criminalize being a conservative, but I absolutely do feel what people like Kirk are doing should be seen as criminal. Hate speech. Propaganda.

(...)

Quick response to only this particular point. In many European countries hate speech is a crime because our rebuilt democracies after World War II recognized how powerful of a tool propaganda is. Hate speech is defined as the act of inciting violence against a person or a group of people in a public space. This means that people like Kirk who run massive platforms would have found themselves in court for their actions, convicted and sentenced.

It is in Canada, too. 



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So, I noticed a lot of people believe those text messages from Tyler are fake and does not represent someone at his age would say and seem very boomer like.



Machiavellian said:

So, I noticed a lot of people believe those text messages from Tyler are fake and does not represent someone at his age would say and seem very boomer like.

Apparently Matt Walsh and Steve Bannon even suggested it was scripted.  


Some of the wording is odd, like "swept the area".

I need to see more evidence though, that these texts are made up.  



The efforts that Fox News and others make to justify the suspension of Jimmy Kimmel is something to behold.

EDIT: The best of all, as usual, is how Trump undoes all these efforts by saying it all out loud and clearly what it is all about. 4:50 to 5:10 in the video below.

Trump is such a sissy... is what I intended to type, but I thought I should look it up to verify if the word means what I thought it means (oversensitive). To my surprise, it turned out that the word has a second meaning and that one happens to be an appropriate description of Trump as well.

Last edited by RolStoppable - on 19 September 2025

Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

I don't really understand the need for the entirety of the left to rise up to denounce every random college student who says something bad. It seems to never be enough for some people. I've spent years arguing with and criticizing people on the left, but there is always some random asshole who I've never heard of that I've somehow failed to denounce, so oops, all the centrists are fascists now. I didn't say "this random person I've never heard of said something bad" loudly enough, so this Twitter user now supports authoritarianism.

I think it is and has always been bullshit. People just want the moral high ground to justify their desire for fascism. They should own their own shit instead of putting it on strangers. If you honestly argue that you are a Republican because the left didn't denounce some college kids hard enough, go into the woods and have a long hard think, because there's something going on there that you are purposely avoiding looking at.



sundin13 said:

I don't really understand the need for the entirety of the left to rise up to denounce every random college student who says something bad. It seems to never be enough for some people. I've spent years arguing with and criticizing people on the left, but there is always some random asshole who I've never heard of that I've somehow failed to denounce, so oops, all the centrists are fascists now. I didn't say "this random person I've never heard of said something bad" loudly enough, so this Twitter user now supports authoritarianism.

I think it is and has always been bullshit. People just want the moral high ground to justify their desire for fascism. They should own their own shit instead of putting it on strangers. If you honestly argue that you are a Republican because the left didn't denounce some college kids hard enough, go into the woods and have a long hard think, because there's something going on there that you are purposely avoiding looking at.

It's the equivalent of someone saying that they aren't buying company X's console because they find company X's fanboys obnoxious, that's why they go with company Y or Z. As if company Y and Z would not have obnoxious fanboys as well. Somehow games (which would be policies in politics) are meaningless.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.