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Torillian said:
Tober said:

What's illegal about it?

The executive branch has the power to audit itself I thought?

Like someone said above and you derided as goal post moving it's about how the audit is done. There are systems set up for this to protect the privacy of all those involved which have been ignored. You can't just bring in whatever dipshits you want and ignore security clearance, there are ways to do this legally. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2025/02/08/here-are-all-the-major-lawsuits-against-trump-and-musk-as-judge-cuts-off-doges-treasury-access/

There's a list of all the lawsuits that Elon is party of for his "audits". 

Think of this like Trump's documents case. Isn't the executive branch allowed to use it's own documents? Well sure, but only in ways that we have deemed legal, not however they damn well please. 

Kennedy in his speech claimed that Musk has the security clearance needed to do this. I would not know why he would lie about it on a live broadcast.

The lawsuits are interesting, let's see where they go. It's not illegal till a judge past judgement about it.



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Tober said:
Torillian said:

Like someone said above and you derided as goal post moving it's about how the audit is done. There are systems set up for this to protect the privacy of all those involved which have been ignored. You can't just bring in whatever dipshits you want and ignore security clearance, there are ways to do this legally. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2025/02/08/here-are-all-the-major-lawsuits-against-trump-and-musk-as-judge-cuts-off-doges-treasury-access/

There's a list of all the lawsuits that Elon is party of for his "audits". 

Think of this like Trump's documents case. Isn't the executive branch allowed to use it's own documents? Well sure, but only in ways that we have deemed legal, not however they damn well please. 

Kennedy in his speech claimed that Musk has the security clearance needed to do this. I would not know why he would lie about it on a live broadcast.

The lawsuits are interesting, let's see where they go. It's not illegal till a judge past judgement about it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/02/07/trump-musk-government-efficiency-attorneys-general-lawsuit/

Courts take a while but all the orders indicate that judges believe that one side will win on the merits and they aren't going in Elon's way. 



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Ryuu96 said:

People largely voted for Trump because they thought he would get their grocery bills down, not for Elon Musk to rampage through, cutting everything he sets his eyes on, we're not talking about a few cuts here and there but Musk and his Nazis dismantling things completely. Things which will have negative impacts on America as a whole and American citizens.

Anyway...

So Much For Lower Prices: Americans Stockpile Eggs As Stores Are Left With Empty Shelves Amid Bird Flu Outbreaks

Egg theft is on the rise as well lol

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stolen-eggs-pennsylvania-pete-and-gerry-farm/

100,000 organic eggs worth $40,000 from Pennsylvania farm stolen from back of truck

People do realize eggs don't keep right? It's not like toilet paper. Buying entire palettes at Costco...


No Trump, you can't have our eggs!



SvennoJ said:
Ryuu96 said:

People largely voted for Trump because they thought he would get their grocery bills down, not for Elon Musk to rampage through, cutting everything he sets his eyes on, we're not talking about a few cuts here and there but Musk and his Nazis dismantling things completely. Things which will have negative impacts on America as a whole and American citizens.

Anyway...

So Much For Lower Prices: Americans Stockpile Eggs As Stores Are Left With Empty Shelves Amid Bird Flu Outbreaks

Egg theft is on the rise as well lol

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stolen-eggs-pennsylvania-pete-and-gerry-farm/

100,000 organic eggs worth $40,000 from Pennsylvania farm stolen from back of truck

People do realize eggs don't keep right? It's not like toilet paper. Buying entire palettes at Costco...

No Trump, you can't have our eggs!

I thought they must have jacked the truck and drove off but they actually took 100,000 eggs from the back of the truck? Lmao.

With the increase in bird flu it's a good thing America has elected an antivaxxer to lead their efforts in combatting it! I'm not sure how America will push their chlorinated chicken onto the UK for a trade deal when they're going to be slaughtering them all...But either way, America can keep their chicken and other farm produce, we don't want them.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 09 February 2025

The only things more pathetic than American Trump/Elon cultists are Trump/Elon cultists in Europe and the Commonwealth states. It's like chickens supporting Popeye's.

Last edited by SanAndreasX - on 09 February 2025

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Jimbo1337 said:
Zkuq said:

I don't think there would be strong opposition to this if this was done in a legal manner. This seems like it's in the gray area at best and straight up illegal at worst. It's not just about what is happening, it's also about how it's happening.

First sentence: "...if it was done in a legal manner" --> From that, a reader can only conclude the user is stating this is illegal.

Second sentence: "seems like it's in the gray area at best and straight up illegal at worst" --> Now the user doesn't know if it is illegal or not and therefore cannot state the legal code that makes it illegal. 

Third sentence: "It's not just about what is happening, it's also about how it's happening." --> We now learn it's not about legality, but rather the user doesn't like HOW it's happening. 

People want (user included) transparency but don't like how it is being unveiled. Make it make sense. 

When you spell everything out, it makes it abundantly clear how the goal posts move within a given post. Gotta love it. 

I'm not going to continue discussion with a person who is clearly trying to find every possible way to misinterpret my post and then proceeds to do just that. If you choose to engage with me in bad faith, there is no meaningful discussion we can possibly have.



Tober said:

You think Americans would be better of without an audit? An unconventional one this one is for sure, but that it is happening should be good no?

That it is an unconventional one should not come as a surprise with America choosing an unconventional President. I believe Trump was very clear about it during his campaign and seemingly most Americans agreed enough to vote him in.

I think if you bring a chainsaw into surgery you won't be saving many lives...

An audit could be good. I don't think anyone would say that there isn't governmental waste. But a lot of these programs save lives by the thousands, especially in USAID. When lives are at stake, some degree of care is required. Something as simple as an aid pause could cause hundreds of thousands of babies to be infected with HIV. Cancelling a program to teach doctors how to perform C Sections can lead to increases in maternal mortality rates. USAID has saved millions of lives worldwide and we're balancing these programs on the whims of some unelected nazi?

These audits are not being performed with the degree of care required to simultaneously balance the important work these agencies do, and the necessity for auditing to combat potentially wasteful spending. 



sundin13 said:
Tober said:

You think Americans would be better of without an audit? An unconventional one this one is for sure, but that it is happening should be good no?

That it is an unconventional one should not come as a surprise with America choosing an unconventional President. I believe Trump was very clear about it during his campaign and seemingly most Americans agreed enough to vote him in.

I think if you bring a chainsaw into surgery you won't be saving many lives...

An audit could be good. I don't think anyone would say that there isn't governmental waste. But a lot of these programs save lives by the thousands, especially in USAID. When lives are at stake, some degree of care is required. Something as simple as an aid pause could cause hundreds of thousands of babies to be infected with HIV. Cancelling a program to teach doctors how to perform C Sections can lead to increases in maternal mortality rates. USAID has saved millions of lives worldwide and we're balancing these programs on the whims of some unelected nazi?

These audits are not being performed with the degree of care required to simultaneously balance the important work these agencies do, and the necessity for auditing to combat potentially wasteful spending. 

I'm not arguing that USAID is doing good things or not. I am sure that some of it is.

I think most Americans believe their government had been corrupt, inefficient or stupid when it comes to spending tax payers money.

An if in the past Audits have been not effective to address this, then a more unconventional way is being applauded. Perhaps this has a 1 percent chance of actually uncovering the meaty stuff, like bribery, money laundering and such. This still is better than the status quo.



Tober said:
sundin13 said:

I think if you bring a chainsaw into surgery you won't be saving many lives...

An audit could be good. I don't think anyone would say that there isn't governmental waste. But a lot of these programs save lives by the thousands, especially in USAID. When lives are at stake, some degree of care is required. Something as simple as an aid pause could cause hundreds of thousands of babies to be infected with HIV. Cancelling a program to teach doctors how to perform C Sections can lead to increases in maternal mortality rates. USAID has saved millions of lives worldwide and we're balancing these programs on the whims of some unelected nazi?

These audits are not being performed with the degree of care required to simultaneously balance the important work these agencies do, and the necessity for auditing to combat potentially wasteful spending. 

I'm not arguing that USAID is doing good things or not. I am sure that some of it is.

I think most Americans believe their government had been corrupt, inefficient or stupid when it comes to spending tax payers money.

An if in the past Audits have been not effective to address this, then a more unconventional way is being applauded. Perhaps this has a 1 percent chance of actually uncovering the meaty stuff, like bribery, money laundering and such. This still is better than the status quo.

Not being applauded:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/elon-musks-popularity-plummets-as-he-goes-full-maga-his-favorability-plunges-in-the-negative-zone-says-new-poll/articleshow/117984177.cms?from=mdr

Most of us would prefer for a billionaire with obvious conflicts of interest and who nobody voted to keep his nose out of government finances. 

Also, if it has a 1% chance of uncovering anything of import but an 80% chance of leading to misinformation and gutting of agencies that do good work then it's not better than the status quo. 



...

Let's try a hypothetical:

I light the capital building on fire because I think there's a 1% chance that when I sift through the rubble I'll find evidence of the corruption I'm pretty sure is there. Was this better than the status quo?



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