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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Controversial character design changes in game remakes

Mandalore76 said:
Chrkeller said:

Not sure what you are talking about.  Do tribes fight half naked?  Sure, because they have limited resources.  It isn't like they are leaving the combat gear at home.  Look at any modern army in the world...  they aren't wearing bikinis and lingerie in the battle.

And it is black/white.  Nobody, absolutely nobody, is saying females can't be sexy.  Have a game that takes place at a dance club, sure have them wear sexy outfits.  Have a game that takes place on a beach relaxing, knock yourself out with bikinis.  Those attires fit the environment.  What those attires don't fit is battlefields, fighting the zombie apocalypse, etc.  It is as simple as putting all characters (male and female) in appropriate attire that matches the game, because it adds to the atmosphere.    

Again, not entirely true.  The Celts and Gauls were very much capable of and did produce helmets and padded armor to wear into battle against the Roman army.  Yet, Diororus and Polybius both stated that there were groups from both who fought naked out of confidence and for psychological warfare.  So, yes, they actually did "leave gear at home" as you put it.

Remind me who won that war.  

You can't, or shouldn't, reasonable argue fighting naked makes sense.  Rikku being in a bikini top is childish nonsense.  Jill in a skirt and tube top is childish nonsense.  You want to like it, so be it, but the silly justifications need to stop.  Some like it because boobs, nothing more.

I am all for proper attire in gaming, simply put is just matches to the environment better.  It just makes sense.

I've asked this question multiple times in this thread and nobody has bothered to answer...  you all fine if Nathan Drake in UC5 wears a speedo when exploring the jungle?  No issues right?  Game isn't realistic anyway, am I right?  

*let us be honest, nobody is going to answer that question because they answer is gamers would be pissed if Nathan became a naked model completely lacking character.  If only people could see the hypocrisy.  



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Chrkeller said:
Leynos said:

Tomb Raider is full of magic shit. Shorts are the last thing to get hung up on. Series isn't based on realism anyway.

So you would be ok with Joel, Nathan and Link running around in a g-string?  Games aren't based on realism anyway, right?

If the opposite were happening you all would be crying foul.  

Female gamers do exist.  My daughters being some of them.  Developers being more inclusive simply increases potential sales.

It is pretty simple folks, it really is.  

IDGAF about TLOU or Uncharted since I hate everything ever made by Naughty Dog and think they are the most overrated studio in existence. I don't give a fuck if they run around with a cactus strap on and fuck mushroom men. Besides Uncharted has fat Nathan as a joke. So sure.

Last edited by Leynos - on 09 December 2022

Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Chrkeller said:
Leynos said:

Tomb Raider is full of magic shit. Shorts are the last thing to get hung up on. Series isn't based on realism anyway.

So you would be ok with Joel, Nathan and Link running around in a g-string?  Games aren't based on realism anyway, right?

If the opposite were happening you all would be crying foul.  

Female gamers do exist.  My daughters being some of them.  Developers being more inclusive simply increases potential sales.

It is pretty simple folks, it really is.  

Does this count?



Mandalore76 said:
Chrkeller said:

So you would be ok with Joel, Nathan and Link running around in a g-string?  Games aren't based on realism anyway, right?

If the opposite were happening you all would be crying foul.  

Female gamers do exist.  My daughters being some of them.  Developers being more inclusive simply increases potential sales.

It is pretty simple folks, it really is.  

Does this count?

I'm shocked I have to say this...  no, that isn't a g-string.  



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I cant remember Lara Croft running around in a G-String either. Sure, some of her outfits are debatable, but I think we shouldn't go overboard. That said I would be perfectly ok with Nathan Drake running around in tight shorts. I dont care too much about the looks of a character anyway. Besides I'm a PC gamer, so if anything really pisses me off I will just mod that shit to my liking. =P

But generally I'm all for variety. So go ahead and give us half-naked men in games, why the hell not, someone will surely enjoy that.



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Chrkeller said:
Leynos said:

Tomb Raider is full of magic shit. Shorts are the last thing to get hung up on. Series isn't based on realism anyway.

So you would be ok with Joel, Nathan and Link running around in a g-string?  Games aren't based on realism anyway, right?

If the opposite were happening you all would be crying foul.  

Female gamers do exist.  My daughters being some of them.  Developers being more inclusive simply increases potential sales.

It is pretty simple folks, it really is.  

Naughty Dog does aim for realism though with Uncharted and The Last of Us, so yes, it would be silly for Joel and Nathan to run around in a g-string climbing mountains or fighting mold zombies. Those old Tomb Raider games were never meant to be taken as seriously as Naughty Dog wants their games to be taken. They had Lara jumping around doing superhuman backflips 7 or 8 feet in the air, shooting at dinosaurs with Uzi's for goodness sake. Those games weren't meant to be taken seriously, so a fan service sexy design and outfit for Lara was perfectly fine in those older Tomb Raider games.

When Crystal Dynamics rebooted the franchise in 2013 they did want it to be taken as seriously as Naughty Dog wants their games to be taken, which is why they redesigned Lara to give her a much more common bust-waist-hip ratio, reduced her abilities down from superhuman to human, gave her more environment suited outfits, and made Lara more vulnerable and relatable. That is also ok with me personally, as they clearly stated it was a reboot, not a remake. 

Female gamers do exist, but that doesn't mean that all female gamers are ok with this recent trend of making female game characters less sexy. I follow quite a few female gamers on twitter who are unhappy with the current state of gaming and don't feel represented by most of the playable female characters we are getting these days, including Melonie, whose tweet I posted in the opening post. Especially the "traditional" female gamers who have been gaming since the 80's and 90's and early 2000's, seem to be quite unhappy with this trend of frumpy looking female characters and less sexy outfits for them. Those old Tomb Raider games were responsible for creating many thousands of female gamers. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 09 December 2022

shikamaru317 said:
Chrkeller said:

So you would be ok with Joel, Nathan and Link running around in a g-string?  Games aren't based on realism anyway, right?

If the opposite were happening you all would be crying foul.  

Female gamers do exist.  My daughters being some of them.  Developers being more inclusive simply increases potential sales.

It is pretty simple folks, it really is.  

Naughty Dog does aim for realism though with Uncharted and The Last of Us, so yes, it would be silly for Joel and Nathan to run around in a g-string climbing mountains or fighting mold zombies. Those old Tomb Raider games were never meant to be taken as seriously as Naughty Dog wants their games to be taken. They had Lara jumping around doing superhuman backflips 7 or 8 feet in the air, shooting at dinosaurs with Uzi's for goodness sake. Those games weren't meant to be taken seriously, so a fan service sexy design and outfit for Lara was perfectly fine in those older Tomb Raider games.

When Crystal Dynamics rebooted the franchise in 2013 they did want it to be taken as seriously as Naughty Dog wants their games to be taken, which is why they redesigned Lara to give her a much more common bust-waist-hip ratio, reduced her abilities down from superhuman to human, gave her more environment suited outfits, and made Lara more vulnerable and relatable. That is also ok with me personally, as they clearly stated it was a reboot, not a remake. 

Female gamers do exist, but that doesn't mean that all female gamers are ok with this recent trend of making female game characters less sexy. I follow quite a few female gamers on twitter who are unhappy with the current state of gaming and don't feel represented by most of the playable female characters we are getting these days, including Melonie, whose tweet I posted in the opening post. Especially the "traditional" female gamers who have been gaming since the 80's and 90's and early 2000's, seem to be quite unhappy with this trend of frumpy looking female characters and less sexy outfits for them. Those old Tomb Raider games were responsible for creating many thousands of female gamers. 

Have you played Uncharted?  Nathan does all kinds of crazy things.  Far, far, far, far crazier than anything Lara ever did.  Some of the action scenes are crazy over the top in Uncharted.

Melonie is also in the camp of getting paid via being popular.  I have 3 female gamers in my household.  For starters the new Lara Croft isn't unattractive.  The new Jill Valentine isn't unattractive.  They are simply dressed for their environment, literally nothing more.  

I'll leave this as my last comment in the thread, because it isn't like anybody is going to change their position, but I am baffled by people being bothered about women in gaming wearing clothes that match their environment.  I just don't get the problem.



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Chrkeller said:
Mandalore76 said:

Again, not entirely true.  The Celts and Gauls were very much capable of and did produce helmets and padded armor to wear into battle against the Roman army.  Yet, Diororus and Polybius both stated that there were groups from both who fought naked out of confidence and for psychological warfare.  So, yes, they actually did "leave gear at home" as you put it.

Remind me who won that war.  

You can't, or shouldn't, reasonable argue fighting naked makes sense.  Rikku being in a bikini top is childish nonsense.  Jill in a skirt and tube top is childish nonsense.  You want to like it, so be it, but the silly justifications need to stop.  Some like it because boobs, nothing more.

I am all for proper attire in gaming, simply put is just matches to the environment better.  It just makes sense.

I've asked this question multiple times in this thread and nobody has bothered to answer...  you all fine if Nathan Drake in UC5 wears a speedo when exploring the jungle?  No issues right?  Game isn't realistic anyway, am I right?  

*let us be honest, nobody is going to answer that question because they answer is gamers would be pissed if Nathan became a naked model completely lacking character.  If only people could see the hypocrisy.  

I'll answer the question, replacing Nathan Drake with Link because I really don't care too much about Uncharted. If BOTW2 featured only speedo Link, I would be unhappy about it and am far less likely to buy the game. Although, I wouldn't say it was wrong for Nintendo to make a game like that, just not to my tastes.

But, there just really doesn't seem to be a market for that anyway, so it's kind of a non-issue. There is however, seemingly a market for games with scantily clad women. And, I don't really have a problem with devs catering to that market, realism be damned. If devs want to make a game with more realistic proportioned women dressed in weather appropriate attire, that's fine too. I'm generally happy to let the free market sort these things out. 



shikamaru317 said:

Somewhere I have a Joan of Arc game on PC from 18 years ago. Was decent but nothing special. Good character design though:

My favorite version is from the PSP game Jeanne D' Arc - one of my most favorite SRPGs since Final Fantasy Tactics. Wish they would remaster/port it over to PS4/PS5.



 Man Nintendo takes Zelda so SERIOUSLY!

NO SILLYNESS or NEKKID ALLOWED!

Btw in the offical artbook for the game Nintendo drew a fully nude Link minus a penis.



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