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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Controversial character design changes in game remakes

Qwark said:

I love how much of these are PlayStation characters. Also TLOU P1 Ellie, announcement Vs game, because she looked to much like Ellen Page.

That should no longer be a problem because Elliot Page looks completely different now.



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DroidKnight said:
tsogud said:

Yeah it came off as sexist because it was sexist. The reason those changes happen is bc more people other than straight males play video games now. Video games have become mainstream. And it's gross to know it's largely there bc some guy wanted to see virtual breasts.

If I was a gay woman I would still prefer a voluptuous well-figured character.

If I was a gay man, I would like to think I would prefer a beef-cake character, huge muscles and a huge bulge.

I'm not sure what being a straight man has anything to do with anything.

I'm not really into fugly (it's gross), but I'm not going to judge you.

Eh, you can have preferences but its kinda presumptuous to say what you think you'd like as a gay man or woman. Can only speak for yourself as you are. 

As for the examples, in my experience most of them are really not that controversial. Especially so if the game was aiming for realism in its art direction from the beginning and does a decent job of creating new models that look like the average person. I also take the tone of the game into account as well usually. If the game is intentionally campy or satirical, I don't necessarily mind seeing the characters be a bit exaggerated or unrealistic.  

I may not like every change that is made when a dev remakes a game either, but I do have an issue with this sense of entitlement about how if a character doesn't look the way someone thinks they should, its due to some ulterior motive and not just a change the developer wanted to make on their own.



shikamaru317 said:
tsogud said:

Yeah it came off as sexist because it was sexist. The reason those changes happen is bc more people other than straight males play video games now. Video games have become mainstream. And it's gross to know it's largely there bc some guy wanted to see virtual breasts.

So you're saying that no sexy, large breasted, hourglass figure women play games, and want to feel represented too? 

Point to where I said that please.



 

DroidKnight said:
tsogud said:

Yeah it came off as sexist because it was sexist. The reason those changes happen is bc more people other than straight males play video games now. Video games have become mainstream. And it's gross to know it's largely there bc some guy wanted to see virtual breasts.

If I was a gay woman I would still prefer a voluptuous well-figured character.

If I was a gay man, I would like to think I would prefer a beef-cake character, huge muscles and a huge bulge.

I'm not sure what being a straight man has anything to do with anything.

I'm not really into fugly (it's gross), but I'm not going to judge you.

Speaking as a nonbinary bisexual I don't prefer voluptuous well-figured characters or beef-cakes with huge buldges. This isn't porn, it's interactive art. I, like many people, prefer realism in characters in games that go for that art style. That doesn't mean these types of characters don't have a place in games. Games that go for campy or satirical style are an exception, like Catherine or Bayonetta (tho I do think Bayo does a pretty good job with portraying powerful women) but the examples pointed out are from games that originally chased the realism art style and tone as evident by the characters.

Also you can't speak for other people or demographics. You spoke for yourself so the convo will be centered on that. You admitted in your post that it might be sexist and I just confirmed it was. That's all. You think women with flat butts and chests and asymmetrical faces are ugly and you value big jiggly breasts and only want to look at that. Your post literally admitted to objectifying women, albeit virtual women. That's sexist. Sorry, but it is.



 

shikamaru317 said:
DroidKnight said:

If I was a gay woman I would still prefer a voluptuous well-figured character.

If I was a gay man, I would like to think I would prefer a beef-cake character, huge muscles and a huge bulge.

I'm not sure what being a straight man has anything to do with anything.

I'm not really into fugly (it's gross), but I'm not going to judge you.

What really grinds my gears is the fact that many of the same people that complain about characters like these:

are the same people drooling over characters like these:

They claim that these sexy female game characters are unrealistic and drive unrealistic beauty standards that harm women, and yet they are right there drooling over sexy male game characters that the vast majority of male gamers will never be able to look like. But you don't see the male gamers crying over unrealistic standards and asking for the male characters to be made pudgy and balding to better represent the male gender, instead either accept the fact that they aren't going to look like a sexy male game character, or they aspire to look more like those sexy male characters; they hit the gym, pump iron, eat a ton of protein, etc.

I see the same thing happening with superhero movies. When men cry fowl over how female super heroes and their outfits are becoming less sexy over time, the feminists claim they are being sexist. But then those same feminists are drooling when Chris Hemsworth takes his shirt off.

I just can't abide by all the hypocrisy I'm seeing these days.

I'm a feminist and I think those unrealistic portrayals of men are just as harmful. Actually most feminists think so too. Toxic masculinity and unrealistic beauty standards negatively effects people of all genders. Feminism at it's core helps men too and agrees that both are harmful and hinders gender equity and agency to be who you are.

Feminist ideology encompasses a lot of different sects. You can't just pick out toxic sects of an ideology and claim it's all of those people of that ideology that believe that. Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminism and White Feminism are the big sects of problematic feminism among others that you are using to bash all feminists. Intersectional feminists (which I am) make up the majority of feminists and they, like me, would agree with you.



 

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tsogud said:

Speaking as a nonbinary bisexual I don't prefer voluptuous well-figured characters or beef-cakes with huge buldges. This isn't porn, it's interactive art. I, like many people, prefer realism in characters in games that go for that art style. That doesn't mean these types of characters don't have a place in games. Games that go for campy or satirical style are an exception, like Catherine or Bayonetta (tho I do think Bayo does a pretty good job with portraying powerful women) but the examples pointed out are from games that originally chased the realism art style and tone as evident by the characters.

Also you can't speak for other people or demographics. You spoke for yourself so the convo will be centered on that. You admitted in your post that it might be sexist and I just confirmed it was. That's all. You think women with flat butts and chests and asymmetrical faces are ugly and you value big jiggly breasts and only want to look at that. Your post literally admitted to objectifying women, albeit virtual women. That's sexist. Sorry, but it is.

I don't care what you prefer, you are free to like whatever you like.  I only spoke for myself and not other people, you may have misread my post. I said if I was a gay female or if I was a gay male, the key word in those sentences being "I".  I said in my post that what I said would come across as sexist, I never once defended that or backtracked on that, but you for some reason are stuck on that.

Here is an earlier statement of yours:

"The reason those changes happen is bc more people other than straight males play video games now. Video games have become mainstream. And it's gross to know it's largely there bc some guy wanted to see virtual breasts."

You said I can't speak for other people or demographics, but here you are doing exactly that.  That's hypocritical. I apologize, but it is.  People, other than straight males have always played video games.  



...to avoid getting banned for inactivity, I may have to resort to comments that are of a lower overall quality and or beneath my moral standards.

At least they fixed it and placed it back to the original design on the PSP remaster/remake.

Edit: Technically not a controversial change to a remake but localization for sure - the remake fixed it and kept the original version's design - not sure why they changed the western version design so much....

Last edited by BasilZero - on 07 December 2022

 I dunno if this counts as it never came out (thankfully) but during Capcom's teenage everything needs to be rebooted to be western and gritty phase they wanted to reboot Strider years before we got the wonderful Stider 2014 which is faithful to the series. No they wanted to go gritty and generic.

 From his classic iconic look to the most generic design possible.

To this shit

Like what is this? This can be any generic recycled enemy in a Ninja Gaiden game.

THANKFULLY Double Helix got a shot at a Strider Reboot and was very faithful to the formula and the design was updated to be more tech. Armored and the scarf is now a plasma trail.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

DroidKnight said:
tsogud said:

Speaking as a nonbinary bisexual I don't prefer voluptuous well-figured characters or beef-cakes with huge buldges. This isn't porn, it's interactive art. I, like many people, prefer realism in characters in games that go for that art style. That doesn't mean these types of characters don't have a place in games. Games that go for campy or satirical style are an exception, like Catherine or Bayonetta (tho I do think Bayo does a pretty good job with portraying powerful women) but the examples pointed out are from games that originally chased the realism art style and tone as evident by the characters.

Also you can't speak for other people or demographics. You spoke for yourself so the convo will be centered on that. You admitted in your post that it might be sexist and I just confirmed it was. That's all. You think women with flat butts and chests and asymmetrical faces are ugly and you value big jiggly breasts and only want to look at that. Your post literally admitted to objectifying women, albeit virtual women. That's sexist. Sorry, but it is.

I don't care what you prefer, you are free to like whatever you like.  I only spoke for myself and not other people, you may have misread my post. I said if I was a gay female or if I was a gay male, the key word in those sentences being "I".  I said in my post that what I said would come across as sexist, I never once defended that or backtracked on that, but you for some reason are stuck on that.

Here is an earlier statement of yours:

"The reason those changes happen is bc more people other than straight males play video games now. Video games have become mainstream. And it's gross to know it's largely there bc some guy wanted to see virtual breasts."

You said I can't speak for other people or demographics, but here you are doing exactly that.  That's hypocritical. I apologize, but it is.  People, other than straight males have always played video games.  

You literally said you wanted to see virtual breasts and I reiterated it... I didn't talk as if I was a straight man or talk for all straight men. What I said wasn't hypocritical. I also never said straight males were the only ones to play video games. They were just the overwhelming majority of people who both played and made games and the target demographic. That's not the case anymore, as more and more people of different demographics enjoy the hobby now.

Saying "If I was this..." or "If I was that..." is moot and carries no weight or truth because you're not part of those demographics so you can't speak on it. It's a very childlike thing to say. You're assuming that's what you'd like based on your belief of what gay men and lesbians like. It's ultimately filtered through the eyes of what you, as a straight man, prefer. So your make believe scenario would never be accurate or authentic because you're not a lesbian or gay man. Making up a scenario based on a superficial perception of what a gay man or lesbian would like and assuming the identity of a gay man or lesbian and using that as a basis to support your viewpoint is, as I said before, moot and completely void of logic. I'm not talking about what ifs or make believe, I'm talking about reality and what you said about women in video games.

Also beauty is subjective and is shaped by experiences and predispositions. Just because you think something is "fugly" doesn't mean it is.



 

I always found this conversation intentionally over complicated. Characters should fit the game. If somebody is going into battle a string bikini is childish nonsense. It just doesn't fit the game. Joan of Arc didn't fight half naked, I'm guessing she wore armor.