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Angelus said:
Ryuu96 said:

I went into Starfield to test this as I haven't been a bad dude in Starfield. You're right they don't react to just shooting the gun near them, I can't replicate a car crash but the actions that led up to the car crash was a fight which resulted in someone dead, so I shot someone in Starfield and you're wrong, literally the entire nearby crowd ran away in all different directions.

I think you miss my point a little with Cyberpunk though, everyone is talking about these huge updates but less than 10 minutes in and I see that the NPC AI is still the same which wasn't very good at launch, it made me laugh but they literally stopped in the middle of the road, inches away from the car crash site, and stared at me, Lol.

I wasn't even really making a direct comparison to Starfield here, Lol. I was just making a point about the update and my feelings on it.

I'm not saying that is the only reason the NPCs and World feels lifeless, I even said that I can't put my finger on it exactly but if we're going to talk about Starfield then Imo Starfield's world feels way more "alive" and "lived in" than Cyberpunk's still, there's something about Cyberpunk's NPCs that still feel dead, they feel like a game. If Neon was the same size as Night City then I would have significantly preferred that as a Cyberpunk city.

Nighty City to me still feels like a GTA mod of someone's version of Cyberpunk. I've got to agree with Grubb that there's still barely any reactivity in the world whatsoever. The world feels shallow and static and I struggle exactly to put my finger on why but that hasn't changed, it is not just one singular reason though.

Still, I enjoyed Cyberpunk a lot overall but I'm not really that interested in PL, starting it up yesterday just made me realise that I'm just ready for a Cyberpunk 2 which either continues the story or starts a new one, with a fully revamped city or a new one and new NPC AI to make the world feel fully alive. The revamped systems in 2.0 are good so no need to change that up.

What exactly is more alive, or reactive about Neon than Night City in Cyberpunk? Benjamin Bayou literally doesn't even recognize you across all the different times you run into him in various quests. He treats you like a new person each time...and that's a major character you interact with. Weighing in on the gang conflict by taking a side has no noticeable impact on the city either. The place is every bit the static setting that Night City is.

I prefer the look of Neon as a "Cyberpunk" aesthetic than I do the look of Night City.

As I have said multiple times now, it's hard to pinpoint an exact reason, it's a feeling, I feel like Starfield's cities feel more alive and lived in, the NPCs day to day routines, the conversations they have with each other, down to the movement of the NPCs, it feels less "gamey" than Cyberpunks. I'm not even talking about having conversations with characters and them saying a set input of dialogue.

But if you want to say that Cyberpunk & Starfield are both bland, static, lifeless cities then you're free to do so, I don't agree. I didn't start the comparisons, I was trying to avoid them. Even my original comment wasn't trying to compare Starfield to Cyberpunk, it was just me saying that I don't feel this massive update to the world (which Versus confirmed by saying the NPC AI wasn't updated) which was my original major criticism.

I'm just ready for Cyberpunk 2 now, am I not allowed to just want to move on?

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 30 September 2023

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Ryuu96 said:
Angelus said:

What exactly is more alive, or reactive about Neon than Night City in Cyberpunk? Benjamin Bayou literally doesn't even recognize you across all the different times you run into him in various quests. He treats you like a new person each time...and that's a major character you interact with. Weighing in on the gang conflict by taking a side has no noticeable impact on the city either. The place is every bit the static setting that Night City is.

I prefer the look of Neon as a "Cyberpunk" aesthetic than I do the look of Night City.

That’s like saying you prefer the game Yaris to FH5 as a racing aesthetic smh. 



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VersusEvil said:
Ryuu96 said:

I prefer the look of Neon as a "Cyberpunk" aesthetic than I do the look of Night City.

That’s like saying you prefer the game Yaris to FH5 as a racing aesthetic smh. 

Lol, if Neon was like way bigger than I'd never leave, if we got a Cyberpunk-genre title but with Neon's aesthetic.

I like all the Starfield cities, they're all very distinct and unique in their own way, they just all feel a bit too small.

That's Bethesda titles in general, thinking about Elder Scrolls and all the cities there are quite small too but there's more of them.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 30 September 2023

Still writing up my attempt at a Starfield review, it's not going to be professional, but I wanted to get this rant out of it, Lol.

I feel like a lot of people had a lot of preconceived notions coming into Starfield and expectations were wildly out there. People were dreaming up this impossible game, it had to be Elite Dangerous + Baldur's Gate 3 + Skyrim + Fallout + Dishonoured (Lul IGN) + Star Citizen and do everything these games do but better and if one system wasn't as good or better than it's a massive disappointment. This is starting to feel like a bit of a trend on how people criticise games, if it doesn't do everything these other games do at the same time and even better then it sucks. Halo is in a similar situation but it wasn't taken down by reviewers for it but there are a lot of people who, despite Halo offering so many things, way more than any other FPS in the market, if it misses one thing for launch then the reaction is an insane amount of hate, despite the fact that other games don't offer anywhere near as big of a suite as Halo does but Halo will be called unfinished. This is like Starfield but not matching all the systems about 5 other games have, Lol.

To use another example, I saw a few Lies of P complaints which complained that it didn't change the Dark Souls formula up enough, I found that a bit funny considering From Software titles are all very similar but that isn't a bad thing, it's what people like. But then thinking back on things, I don't remember seeing anywhere near the level of comparison and criticism for Skyrim in saying that compared to Mass Effect it's barely an RPG, or for Fallout about its awful gunplay and how practically every shooter on the market did gunplay better, Lol.

I also feel like a lot of complaints have people specifically pursuing activities that they know they'd find boring, like forcing themselves to explore random POIs as if they're made to and there isn't dozens of other activities to pursue. It's a sandbox like previous Bethesda titles, so treat it as such, don't focus only on activities that you aren't enjoying and instead find your own fun, it like other Bethesda titles just tells you to go out there and do whatever, there's no hand holding or force path. The game has exploration still but I think it's done differently from previous Bethesda titles and that is also jarring to some, I feel Starfield is more about the quests and not just aimlessly wondering around on dead planets, sure you could do that and maybe run into fun encounters but explore the cities, listen to the people, pick up quests from them, join a faction(s). Don't just spend your whole time doing procedurally generated random content, Lol. I think Starfield's quests are the thing which encourages exploration.

The game does have flaws for sure but I feel like a streamer said it best, I can't remember which one it was, that if you specifically seek out activities you know you won't enjoy then you won't have a good time and I feel like some people are doing exactly that and forgetting what a Bethesda sandbox is all about and it doesn't help when you stack up 5 completely different games with completely different design goals and say Starfield has to not only meet all of those things those games do but also exceed every single one.

Starfield Imo should be compared to previous Bethesda titles, not 10 other titles individually that have completely different design goals. When compared to previous Bethesda titles it's a massive step up in multiple ways and even if you want to compare it to some modern day RPGs, it does some things better, and some things worse.

I feel like some of the reviews lowered Starfield on the basis of what they hoped the game would be rather than what it actually is, despite it never being advertised as such that it would replace all of these games. It was always at its core advertised as a Bethesda RPG in Space. I don't believe games should be criticised for what you "wish" it had but what it actually is. If say Mass Effect released today but with a star map to travel system to system still instead of seamless flying, would it be criticised for that? I honestly don't have a clue why anyone would find it fun to fly in a single straight line for hours on end to go from one planet to another, and no you can't just say "make it faster" because it's literally the games lore, if you want immersion then they can't just break it whenever you want, Lol.

Too much dunking on the game for what it isn't whilst ignoring what it is. It shouldn't be criticized for the imagination in your head. Ignoring all the good things that it does that others aren't. The whole point of a Bethesda sandbox is the choice of finding a bunch of different things to do and finding your own fun, even if some of it you dislike, there's a freedom to Bethesda titles. As much as people complain, there are still few titles that do things on the same scale as a Bethesda title so they're still unique in themselves and I see little reason to compare them to everything else, in multiple different genres, rather than comparing them to games in their style, which are, Bethesda RPGs.

Zero-sum mentality that a lot of gamers have today. Every game has to now be compared with each other to see where they outcompete other games and where they fail, even if they aren't even in the same genre, have the same design goals, etc. Starfield is a great game with flaws, it's not a Rockstar-level GOTG but it never needed to be, there was a lot of ridiculous pressure put onto Starfield before releases (like if Starfield isn't a 9/10 at minimum then Xbox is dead) and unfair to the team. Starfield, Cyberpunk, BG3, etc. Can all be successful in their own right and excel at different things yet there is a constant comparison between Starfield and in particular, BG3, it's tedious.

Wanted to get this out of my review so I could focus solely on the game, rather than ranting about some people's criticisms, I'm just tired of the constant comparison of every single aspect in a video game and constantly looking for reasons why one game does something worse than another, if I treated all my games like that then I don't think I'd enjoy any game, every game does something better and something worse than another game.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 30 September 2023

Ryuu96 said:
Angelus said:

What exactly is more alive, or reactive about Neon than Night City in Cyberpunk? Benjamin Bayou literally doesn't even recognize you across all the different times you run into him in various quests. He treats you like a new person each time...and that's a major character you interact with. Weighing in on the gang conflict by taking a side has no noticeable impact on the city either. The place is every bit the static setting that Night City is.

I prefer the look of Neon as a "Cyberpunk" aesthetic than I do the look of Night City.

As I have said multiple times now, it's hard to pinpoint an exact reason, it's a feeling, I feel like Starfield's cities feel more alive and lived in, the NPCs day to day routines, the conversations they have with each other, down to the movement of the NPCs, it feels less "gamey" than Cyberpunks. I'm not even talking about having conversations with characters and them saying a set input of dialogue.

But if you want to say that Cyberpunk & Starfield are both bland, static, lifeless cities then you're free to do so, I don't agree. I didn't start the comparisons, I was trying to avoid them. Even my original comment wasn't trying to compare Starfield to Cyberpunk, it was just me saying that I don't feel this massive update to the world (which Versus confirmed by saying the NPC AI wasn't updated) which was my original major criticism.

I'm just ready for Cyberpunk 2 now, am I not allowed to just want to move on?

I definitely wouldn't say they're bland, by any stretch. I also don't think that they're lifeless. But they're definitely both quite static. I think the reason you struggle to pinpoint a particular reason for your feeling that one is more alive than the other, is cus there isn't really much of anything to put your finger on lol. Starfield is a more reactive game the Cyberpunk as a whole, but this reactivity and liveliness (or whatever you wanna call it) doesn't really translate to it's cities or your interactions with the game's general populace.



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Angelus said:
Ryuu96 said:

I prefer the look of Neon as a "Cyberpunk" aesthetic than I do the look of Night City.

As I have said multiple times now, it's hard to pinpoint an exact reason, it's a feeling, I feel like Starfield's cities feel more alive and lived in, the NPCs day to day routines, the conversations they have with each other, down to the movement of the NPCs, it feels less "gamey" than Cyberpunks. I'm not even talking about having conversations with characters and them saying a set input of dialogue.

But if you want to say that Cyberpunk & Starfield are both bland, static, lifeless cities then you're free to do so, I don't agree. I didn't start the comparisons, I was trying to avoid them. Even my original comment wasn't trying to compare Starfield to Cyberpunk, it was just me saying that I don't feel this massive update to the world (which Versus confirmed by saying the NPC AI wasn't updated) which was my original major criticism.

I'm just ready for Cyberpunk 2 now, am I not allowed to just want to move on?

I definitely wouldn't say they're bland, by any stretch. I also don't think that they're lifeless. But they're definitely both quite static. I think the reason you struggle to pinpoint a particular reason for your feeling that one is more alive than the other, is cus there isn't really much of anything to put your finger on lol. Starfield is a more reactive game the Cyberpunk as a whole, but this reactivity and liveliness (or whatever you wanna call it) doesn't really translate to it's cities or your interactions with the game's general populace.

It doesn't really translate well to interactions in some cases, although characters in Starfield sure like talking a lot, Lol. I think it's just a "feeling" and it's not really to do with "talking to everyone" but just watching the world go by and how the NPCs move and interact with each other, I enter New Atlantis, Neon and Akila and the world just "feels" alive and lived in, the NPCs feel like they're living there, they're all having chats with each other, going about their day, I don't need to talk to them all to feel that, but I'm either not explaining myself well or it's hard to explain. I've a similar feeling with Red Dead Redemption 2 and I couldn't explain it to you well for that either, I don't have to talk to any NPC to feel like the world is alive and lived in, rather than a computer generated world. This is partly why Red Dead Redemption 2 and Bethesda titles tend to be my favourite worlds.

It's a feeling to me that is hard to explain but we'll have to disagree.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 30 September 2023

We need to be united here Xbots, we gonna get cooked come October 20th, and not by some plumber either. RIP.



https://www.trueachievements.com/gamercards/SliferCynDelta.png%5B/IMG%5D">https://www.trueachievements.com/gamer/SliferCynDelta"><img src="https://www.trueachievements.com/gamercards/SliferCynDelta.png

Spade said:

We need to be united here Xbots, we gonna get cooked come October 20th, and not by some plumber either. RIP.

The two most important things to do: stock up on lube and train up for 19 inches of Venom.



Spade said:

We need to be united here Xbots, we gonna get cooked come October 20th, and not by some plumber either. RIP.

I'll admit that Spiderman was the last game I actually felt was worth playing through on my PS, but it was still like a 7/10 game, so I don't think it's really anything one has to be super jealous of unless you're just that into superheroes. Besides, there's so many great games to play right now that really I don't think anybody on any platform oughta be struggling lol



Spade said:

We need to be united here Xbots, we gonna get cooked come October 20th, and not by some plumber either. RIP.

Man, I don't care about some losers on Twitter

All 3 have had a great year, as far as I'm concerned, Xbox has 2 GOTY contenders (may not be the case with TGA's but I don't care, I'm talking about myself). Xbox has been on a roll since their June showcase and these past few weeks have been some of their strongest in years, they're going to close up the year with Forza Motorsport and the closure of ABK. Spider-Man 2 will be great, so was Spider-Man 1, it will do amazing numbers too because it's Spider-Man but I'm eating good right now with Xbox and it's good when all 3 are doing great.