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Forums - Gaming - Nintendo's Success Is Your Greatest Enemy!

ZyroXZ2 said:
curl-6 said:

I don't disagree with all your points, but I am not wrong about Nintendo's success with the Switch benefitting me.

Right now, I am practically drowning in great games for my Switch, to the point where I am shelving some for next year as I simply don't have time to play them all, and that is down to the system being so massively successful that it is worthwhile for third parties to bring their games to it.

I do not support them blindly or unconditionally. If they do what I like, I support that with my money, if they don't, then I don't. Right now, what they're doing is good for me, so I'm happy, it's as simple as that.

Games you enjoy don't necessarily mean they're great.  In fact, there's a reason 3rd party support for Nintendo STILL remains so paltry, and some are tossing some ports at it because, well, the Switch sells so well that they figure they can make some extra money.  I mean, think about that 3rd party support overall: where's Scarlet Nexus, Tales of Arise, Elden Ring, or any number of good games that would surely do well with the Nintendo fans?  Why do most 3rd party games that do come just come SOOO much later than everyone else?  Granted, hardware is a part of this, but many "great" games skip the Switch entirely.  Nintendo's success isn't garnering the efforts they should be making to get 3rd party games because they'd rather put that money into *gasp* another Mario-branded game.

Naturally, it's good to not blindly support them, and truth is, I don't think you're sitting in this thread thrashing about like Nintendo NEEDS to win so you can feel good.  But the reality is that Nintendo IS making moves fueled by greed.  This can lead down courses that are very hard to correct.  In some ways, Apple getting overthrown by Samsung is a good example of what happens when competition shows up and enough of your fanbase gets fed up with your greedy shit lol... Of course, Apple chose to fight back.  Everybody wins because of that, though now I'm starting to feel like they're ALL winning and starting to ALL get greedy collectively... But I digress...

I mean, think back on the glory days (assuming you're old enough lol).  The GameCube was losing hard, yet it was one of their better hardware efforts and had 3rd party games and exclusives moreso than we've ever seen again since.  Hell, I still can't believe RE4 was an exclusive, and of course they secured one of the best REs ever made and set a formula that would later become the remake formula for RE2 and RE3 to great effect.

If you're happy, great, but I wouldn't toss out criticism of Nintendo just because of it.  No company is above reproach.  Ever.

Doctor_MG said:

This is straight up false. If you really like a product, the company being successful with it is a good thing for you (provided it doesn't impact you in a significantly negative way). Companies HAVE to be successful to, well, succeed. Yeah, a ton of companies do awful things that I don't like. That isn't because the success of their product itself is the problem, but the overwhelming amount of control we allow these companies to have from a political standpoint. Rules and regulations are not created by not purchasing products, but by being an active participant in your government. 

Companies will only keep "fighting each other for our benefit" if they find success. So suggesting that success is always bad is just...ridiculous. Without success you get Sega or, worse, Atari. 

Also, Nintendo isn't sitting at the top comfortably, and they know that. 

Edit: I think the best example I can think of right now for how a companies success can be beneficial is YouTube. Without YouTube's success you literally wouldn't be doing what you are doing right now. 

I think you're mixing up success and profit.  Companies need to be profitable to match everything you just said.  Success is different, and you look at all the top successful companies in the world, and you're going to see a pattern.  However, the success leads to the stranglehold the company has on you when you have little other option(s).  This obviously led to anti-monopoly laws because SOMEONE had to step in, and you sort of realize that's the point: if a profitable company sees success and is left unchecked, you clearly can see that it took things at a GOVERNMENT level to stop what we both know would happen.  This is because success IS this dangerous.  Perhaps you and I are arguing chicken and egg, here, but then I'd argue that the effects of company greed came first, and it got to a point where there needed to be laws to keep it in check because, well, a successful company will just keep finding more ways to take advantage.

You're right: without success, you DO lose, and that's also the point.  When you're losing, you have two choices: either do nothing and simply lose; or start fighting and climbing back.  Nintendo was in its best form twice when it was losing.  I look back on the GameCube era and the Wii U era, and there's a clear pattern that starts years into the life of each of those when Nintendo ramps up and pushes harder because they recognize things aren't going so well.  That's the choice to fight back.  Either try or get out, and that's a healthy thing overall.

YouTube?  Oh boy, don't get me started on how much I shit on them.  YouTube's success has led to all SORTS of issues, a lot of which is the automation and algorithms.  Let's not go down that path, what I'm doing now using YouTube may shift anyway BECAUSE of what they've become.  I've already been ramping up streaming because I may eventually move to Twitch and just live stream.  Of course, Twitch is ALSO another set of issues due to how successful it is, but unfortunately, my money doesn't control either of them because I'm not paying either of them...  Content/ads control them, and that's apples and oranges to what we're talking about, here.

Chrkeller said:

"No one company should be sitting at the top, at least not comfortably. That rug should always be pull-able, by us, the people."

Really odd thread to point out 5th grade economics.

Really odd that I even have to point it out at all, right?  But here we are, "gamers" sitting around thinking if they throw money at their favorite companies, they're "winning".  Perhaps 5th grade economics needs to include financial advice.

Azzanation said:

Nintendo successful or not makes no difference. They continue to strive by their standards and visions.

I mean, they actually faltered with the N64 and GameCube, two systems with some of their best titles they've ever made and far more 3rd party support.  The Wii U was also another moment of falter, but of course they ramped up years in and brought us some good stuff.  Nintendo strives hardest when it's clear they're not seeing the sales numbers they want, though that applies to pretty much any company, heh.

RolStoppable said:

I addressed all the points in your video and I hope you realize now that every single one of your reasons were not a consequence of Nintendo's success with Switch.

The single-best point why Nintendo's success is good for gamers has been mentioned right away by curl-6, namely that high console sales result in a much bigger game library than low console sales. Having a larger selection of games to choose from is not a negative; but you know that, hence why you opt to not address any post specifically and instead give a general response while pretending that you are still right.

You do get people to agree with your final point, but there's nothing impressive about that. It's also nothing to worry about, because history has shown enough times that Nintendo cannot rest on their laurels, so there's nothing comfortable about their position. They'll have to keep working hard, because out of the three current console manufacturers, the market certainly punishes them the hardest. That's why it isn't even a problem that Nintendo holds a monopoly in the portable console market, because they'll have to make a compelling product regardless.

Oh the irony… *le sigh* I actually did the opposite and spared you.  But hey, you asked for this, so I’ll humor you.

This video sucked ass. It made three major points to show that success makes companies worse.

Legal rights - Remember the Wii U days when Nintendo didn't make copyright claims on Youtube? No? Well, yeah, that's because Nintendo protects their IPs regardless of how well their console business is doing. Therefore anything concerning legal rights is not caused by Nintendo's success.

I said NINTENDO’S success, not the SWITCH’s success, so your timeline is off.  It’s like you completely forgot the literal massive sales success of the Wii that preceded the Wii U.  The literal thing that caused them to crawl into the Wii U so lazily only to ramp up HARD years into its life realizing they fucked up and that trying to ride on the success of the Wii didn’t work at ALL.  The Wii was literally what put Nintendo back on top and set them on a path to become legal giants because the massive success meant a massive increase in fanfare.  YouTube was also ramping up, too, though emulation, piracy, and fanmade projects were happening well before that and mostly flew under the radar.  The Wii’s success brought a lot of this to light, and Nintendo had a choice.  They chose to focus on legality (though remember, sometimes it IS a win when people try to profit, but that part should be obvious) rather than support.  Again, you should look at Genshin: they literally SUPPORT and encourage fanmade art and projects.  If you want another one, look at Warframe: they literally have designs in the game that can be purchased that are made by fans.  There are companies that know how to EMBRACE their fanbase, not POLICE them.  PlayStation and Xbox mostly ignore it, which is also fine: that's the "hands off" approach.


Nintendo makes a shitty decision during a successful period- It's because they're successful. See? Success is bad.

Nintendo makes shitty decision during an unsuccessful period- It's because they were successful before. See? Success is bad.

Nintendo makes a good decision during an unsuccessful period- It's because they're unsuccessful. See? Success is bad.

Nintendo makes a good decision during a successful period- It's because they were unsuccessful before. See? Success is bad.

How exactly do you determine if a particular decision or occurrence is a result of Nintendo's success or lackthereof? Cause it seems like you're just interpretting things as necessary to make your point.

Edit:

ZyroXZ2 said:

That's why this video sucks so hard, because it fails to make any correct point. I was actually expecting something sensible, such as "the greater Nintendo's success is, the higher the likelihood that they'll start to make games that you don't want." Which is still just a hypothetical, but at least it's reasonable.

So my failure is literally, to you, based on your love of Nintendo.  Well if THAT’S not representative of the “fanboy” rhetoric, I don’t know what is.  If you wanted a solid argument against me, because sometimes I have to help people argue, it’s that I’m still buying the games and signing up (begrudgingly) to NSO.  Of course, the response there is quite literally the reason for the existence of my channel: I’m trying to “find out” so others may not have to.  What most people don’t realize, and this has been brought up a few times, is that without the channel, my game purchases go WAYYYY down.  That’s because I actually practice what I preach, so I figure if I’m going to have a channel, I'd try to do something useful for others (and try to make it entertaining along the way), that I’d take the risk so others don’t have to.  This is my attempt to empower others through information, tied to why I fight myself hard to remain probably one of the only truly non-preferential people in gaming.  I really don’t care about who’s who, it’s either good or its bad.



I am absolutely mystified by this response. I have no idea how to connect the dots from Rol's statement to your response. I'm not necessarily agreeing with him, but that isn't even vaguely responsive to what was actually said. But... uhhhhh... thanks for your brave service I guess?

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 15 July 2022

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ZyroXZ2 said:

This place is so unpredictable, I can never tell and just when I figure there probably won't be any replies to come look at, here it is lol

Yes, the Nintendo fandom is heavy here, so I probably should have been a little wiser to that given the "answer to Zelda" stuff, but I do find some of the replies surprisingly depressing (and of course, it's pretty easy to tell who didn't watch or just skipped around in the video).

But I can reply to all the replies in one fell swoop:

If you think that companies being big and successful is ever good for you, you'll always be wrong.  Every single reply defending Nintendo probably hates some combination of Microsoft, or Apple, or Amazon, or Embracer Group, or Facebook, or Tencent, or [insert probably dozens of companies doing things you think are wrong or hate, or that you would not go anywhere near because of].

The appropriate reply in a case like this is to accept the very thing I said in the video: you don't care because you are simply a consumer.  I care, because in large enough numbers, we can keep these companies fighting each other to our benefit.  At least, that's my hope.  No one company should be sitting at the top, at least not comfortably.  That rug should always be pull-able, by us, the people.

I, for one, think you should be hating on Microsoft instead of Nintendo.  Nintendo's success right now is due to people liking their games.  Microsoft's success right now is due to them being a gigantic company with around a $2 trillion market cap.  Microsoft fails upward.  They screw up big time, and then buy gigantic gaming companies afterward.  They are like that video game boss that you defeat and then still comes back stronger than ever before.

Basically for Nintendo to stay successful, they need to keep making great games.  That ultimately means the gamers are in control.  For Microsoft to stay successful, they just need to keep making major acquisitions.  In this case, gamers are not in control.  For example, if you think Mario Strikers is a bad game, then just don't buy it.  On the other hand if you think Starfield should be on every platform, well forget it, because Bethesda isn't a third party studio anymore. 

I think you should have been complaining about Microsoft instead of Nintendo.



ZyroXZ2 said:

I think you're mixing up success and profit.  Companies need to be profitable to match everything you just said.  Success is different, and you look at all the top successful companies in the world, and you're going to see a pattern.  However, the success leads to the stranglehold the company has on you when you have little other option(s).  This obviously led to anti-monopoly laws because SOMEONE had to step in, and you sort of realize that's the point: if a profitable company sees success and is left unchecked, you clearly can see that it took things at a GOVERNMENT level to stop what we both know would happen.  This is because success IS this dangerous.  Perhaps you and I are arguing chicken and egg, here, but then I'd argue that the effects of company greed came first, and it got to a point where there needed to be laws to keep it in check because, well, a successful company will just keep finding more ways to take advantage.

You're right: without success, you DO lose, and that's also the point.  When you're losing, you have two choices: either do nothing and simply lose; or start fighting and climbing back.  Nintendo was in its best form twice when it was losing.  I look back on the GameCube era and the Wii U era, and there's a clear pattern that starts years into the life of each of those when Nintendo ramps up and pushes harder because they recognize things aren't going so well.  That's the choice to fight back.  Either try or get out, and that's a healthy thing overall.

YouTube?  Oh boy, don't get me started on how much I shit on them.  YouTube's success has led to all SORTS of issues, a lot of which is the automation and algorithms.  Let's not go down that path, what I'm doing now using YouTube may shift anyway BECAUSE of what they've become.  I've already been ramping up streaming because I may eventually move to Twitch and just live stream.  Of course, Twitch is ALSO another set of issues due to how successful it is, but unfortunately, my money doesn't control either of them because I'm not paying either of them...  Content/ads control them, and that's apples and oranges to what we're talking about, here.

You realize to be profitable IS to be successful, right?



I honestly don’t know why this is a thing. Nintendo has always done some odd or dumb things, regardless if they were successful or not. Didn’t anyone remember the Wii U/3DS days when they put stuff out like AC Amiibo Festival, in which you have to use amiibo to even play the game, which was negatively received due to its shallow gameplay and features? Or when they introduced the New 3DS XL in the Americas and didn’t include in a charger in the package and had a weird process of transferring data to the New 3DS XL? Or when they introduced the YouTube Partners Program? And let’s not pretend buying the same VC games on Wii U/3DS all over again was a fun process.

Nintendo will always do whatever they feel is right for them. But while they’re doing that, they’ve continuously do whatever they can to put out content that they think would be cool to play. They’ve been among the top publishers that have released the most games almost every year. Sure there are things that they need to work on in a management and a gaming aspect, but it’s always gonna be a work in progress.



>Man makes dumb clickbait title
>Everyone gives criticism pointing out how dumb it is
>Man gets assblasted and writes a novel in response, that despite its length still barely touches on their actual criticism.
Lol, never change internet.



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psychicscubadiver said:

>Man makes dumb clickbait title
>Everyone gives criticism pointing out how dumb it is
>Man gets assblasted and writes a novel in response, that despite its length still barely touches on their actual criticism.
Lol, never change internet.

Worse there was some heavy intellectual slight of hand by using a vaguely populist argument 'the consumers should always be able to pull the rug' and overtly pro capitalist arguments praising 'competition'. 

Competition can be good and can be a bad thing. For example, Netflix. Netflix had a dominant position and had all the content I wanted to see = I needed only one subscription to see what I wanted. Now I have to pay multiple subscription and Netflix has to raise their price because they don't have the deep pockets of Disney or Amazon. 

Competition is not a magical word that fixes every problem. A dominant position can allow a company to take creative risks. Some companies thrive when they find success, others become greedy. 

It is as if, it is more complicated than "Success is bad for consumers" 



Nostaldub said:
psychicscubadiver said:

>Man makes dumb clickbait title
>Everyone gives criticism pointing out how dumb it is
>Man gets assblasted and writes a novel in response, that despite its length still barely touches on their actual criticism.
Lol, never change internet.

Worse there was some heavy intellectual slight of hand by using a vaguely populist argument 'the consumers should always be able to pull the rug' and overtly pro capitalist arguments praising 'competition'. 

Competition can be good and can be a bad thing. For example, Netflix. Netflix had a dominant position and had all the content I wanted to see = I needed only one subscription to see what I wanted. Now I have to pay multiple subscription and Netflix has to raise their price because they don't have the deep pockets of Disney or Amazon. 

Competition is not a magical word that fixes every problem. A dominant position can allow a company to take creative risks. Some companies thrive when they find success, others become greedy. 

It is as if, it is more complicated than "Success is bad for consumers" 

Not to mention that the single biggest competitor for Nintendo is people not playing Nintendo games. 

There are some people like those in this forum who are devoted enough that they're always going to buy some kind of video game no matter what. But for the majority of people video games aren't an essential. And if the number one company isn't putting out stuff they like, they'll just stop playing.

The only situation where there is something even close to monopoly power is with NSOnline, because they're restricting access to a key feature for a product people already paid for. But, aside from that, the argument just doesn't hold water. Even if Nintendo is on top with 100 million consoles sold, they'd rather sell 120. If those 120 million people are buying 10 games each, Nintendo would rather they each buy 12 games.

In a world where people were each required to buy one and only one game console, and were required to buy a set number of games, then the argument might work. But in the real world, even there was no competition, Nintendo would stand to lose or gain hundreds of millions of dollars based on their decisions. No matter how much money they make, they're gonna want more.



Far too deep into my own ass”: The Thread.



Also, being successful and having strong competition are not mutually exclusive.

The SNES for instance was successful, but faced a powerful rival in the Megadrive.
The Switch likewise has to contend with a gaming market arguably more diverse and competitive than ever before, with everything from phones vying for people's playtime in the portable space to Sony and MS deeply entrenched in the home console sector.

Nintendo have had to fight tooth and nail to come back from the disaster of the Wii U, and they've done so by making a great system with something for just about everyone and a ton of great content in both the first and third party department. Consumers are rewarding Nintendo with sales and success because they have, by and large, provided us with a proposition that serves us well.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 17 July 2022

More of these threads, please.