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Forums - Politics Discussion - Shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas (19 Students, 2 Teachers Dead)

Yeah, it is very important to understand that like most problems, there are numerous contributing factors and many "solutions" proposed have causal effects that go far beyond the problem at hand. The value that I see in eliminating civilian possession of certain types of firearms/magazines/ammunition is primarily that it may decrease death counts when an active shooting event occurs without creating significant problems elsewhere. It isn't a silver bullet, but it is a hole we can patch to save some lives by sacrificing nothing of value.



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Cobretti2 said:
sundin13 said:

What the hell does this nuke talk have to do with school shootings? What argument is actually being made here about guns/shootings?

i think he is trying to say people who have the bigger guns don't get fucked with, people who have no guns get fucked. Which I think connects to his earlier posts, he wants more guns in schools to deter people from doing school shootings.

Pretty much. The more you have and more damage they can cause, the less trouble you tend to have overall. Combine them and you reduce even further. That doesn't mean no trouble whatsoever, even internally.

It wasn't connected to anything prior to the point about US citizens donating some guns to Ukraine. While Ukraine's past arsenal also made a point, the main point was how important defense is and why it's better to take it more seriously and go overboard than not. Which is part of the reason why the US is so well armed. Trying to find the perfect balance is obviously the best solution if you can find it and implement it, which is much easier said than done.

Not everyone requires the same level of defense. Some places like Canada or Australia don't arm themselves anywhere near the amount they could simply due to their geography and environment.



ConservagameR said:
Cobretti2 said:

i think he is trying to say people who have the bigger guns don't get fucked with, people who have no guns get fucked. Which I think connects to his earlier posts, he wants more guns in schools to deter people from doing school shootings.

Pretty much. The more you have and more damage they can cause, the less trouble you tend to have overall. Combine them and you reduce even further. That doesn't mean no trouble whatsoever, even internally.

It wasn't connected to anything prior to the point about US citizens donating some guns to Ukraine. While Ukraine's past arsenal also made a point, the main point was how important defense is and why it's better to take it more seriously and go overboard than not. Which is part of the reason why the US is so well armed. Trying to find the perfect balance is obviously the best solution if you can find it and implement it, which is much easier said than done.

Not everyone requires the same level of defense. Some places like Canada or Australia don't arm themselves anywhere near the amount they could simply due to their geography and environment.

So...there's no point about guns and school shootings here? I mean, if you want to argue that there is value in nuclear weapons, there is some truth to that but this doesn't seem like the place. If you want to try to make an argument for arming the populace to reduce crime on the other hand, that is a pretty garbage argument although coincidentally this would be just the place to make it.



sundin13 said:
ConservagameR said:

Pretty much. The more you have and more damage they can cause, the less trouble you tend to have overall. Combine them and you reduce even further. That doesn't mean no trouble whatsoever, even internally.

It wasn't connected to anything prior to the point about US citizens donating some guns to Ukraine. While Ukraine's past arsenal also made a point, the main point was how important defense is and why it's better to take it more seriously and go overboard than not. Which is part of the reason why the US is so well armed. Trying to find the perfect balance is obviously the best solution if you can find it and implement it, which is much easier said than done.

Not everyone requires the same level of defense. Some places like Canada or Australia don't arm themselves anywhere near the amount they could simply due to their geography and environment.

So...there's no point about guns and school shootings here? I mean, if you want to argue that there is value in nuclear weapons, there is some truth to that but this doesn't seem like the place. If you want to try to make an argument for arming the populace to reduce crime on the other hand, that is a pretty garbage argument although coincidentally this would be just the place to make it.

I wasn't the one who brought up the US having so many guns being a good thing and how they should give some to Ukraine, or another way to look at it would be that if the US wasn't so hardcore when it comes to defense that Ukraine would've been totally screwed. Nothing was said about this not being the place for a point like that, so I didn't see the problem with my reply.

I believe it was Cobretti2 who thought that this had a connection to more heavily arming the US population, which I don't recall saying anything about that. I did talk about the cops handling of the situation, as well as why there may be more mass shootings in the US, but that was it. I think you're mistaken.



Chrkeller said:

Another mass shooting last night. I think that is the 7th since this thread started.. and people think we don't have an gun access problem.

At this point we can turn this into a fixed thread to count all mass shootings and the number of victims 



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IcaroRibeiro said:
Chrkeller said:

Another mass shooting last night. I think that is the 7th since this thread started.. and people think we don't have an gun access problem.

At this point we can turn this into a fixed thread to count all mass shootings and the number of victims 

Sounds like a full time job just to keep up on it.



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Chrkeller said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

At this point we can turn this into a fixed thread to count all mass shootings and the number of victims 

Sounds like a full time job just to keep up on it.

100% a full time job, but I guess we can all keep talking about it when it happens, no need to make a list out of it.

Even though this happened a few weeks ago now, still mind blowing and I can't understand why they can't push through change. The most heart breaking thing is that when you look at the photos of the victims, you can see they were at a point in their life where they were hoping their dreams would become realities and looked so happy. Old enough to start making some independent decisions of their own in life.  Not only that but this will have a trickle down effect on all the other kids at that school. Instead of being happy and aiming for their dreams without a worry in their mind to hold them back, they will constantly have this fear in the back of their minds what if another school shooting happens, will I be next to die?

When I was their age my biggest worry was which sport could I do that didn't involve me being at school at 7am to practice before class.  Such a trivial matter in the grand scheme of things, but that's how it should be for children of that age.



 

 

Cobretti2 said:
Chrkeller said:

Sounds like a full time job just to keep up on it.

100% a full time job, but I guess we can all keep talking about it when it happens, no need to make a list out of it.

Even though this happened a few weeks ago now, still mind blowing and I can't understand why they can't push through change. The most heart breaking thing is that when you look at the photos of the victims, you can see they were at a point in their life where they were hoping their dreams would become realities and looked so happy. Old enough to start making some independent decisions of their own in life.  Not only that but this will have a trickle down effect on all the other kids at that school. Instead of being happy and aiming for their dreams without a worry in their mind to hold them back, they will constantly have this fear in the back of their minds what if another school shooting happens, will I be next to die?

When I was their age my biggest worry was which sport could I do that didn't involve me being at school at 7am to practice before class.  Such a trivial matter in the grand scheme of things, but that's how it should be for children of that age.

Guilt?  People opposed changed 10 years ago after Sandy Hook.  Not many are going to admit they were wrong for a decade plus, and have a whole bunch of blood on their hands.  



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Chrkeller said:
Cobretti2 said:

100% a full time job, but I guess we can all keep talking about it when it happens, no need to make a list out of it.

Even though this happened a few weeks ago now, still mind blowing and I can't understand why they can't push through change. The most heart breaking thing is that when you look at the photos of the victims, you can see they were at a point in their life where they were hoping their dreams would become realities and looked so happy. Old enough to start making some independent decisions of their own in life.  Not only that but this will have a trickle down effect on all the other kids at that school. Instead of being happy and aiming for their dreams without a worry in their mind to hold them back, they will constantly have this fear in the back of their minds what if another school shooting happens, will I be next to die?

When I was their age my biggest worry was which sport could I do that didn't involve me being at school at 7am to practice before class.  Such a trivial matter in the grand scheme of things, but that's how it should be for children of that age.

Guilt?  People opposed changed 10 years ago after Sandy Hook.  Not many are going to admit they were wrong for a decade plus, and have a whole bunch of blood on their hands.  

Wow I can't believe it's already been 10 years since Sandy Hook. It doesn't even feel like 10 years has gone by already.  This makes it even more disappointing that no change has happened.

When Australia changed it's gun laws it feels like the change happened a life time ago and no one really brings it up as a topic locally other than when a US massacre happens.

Imagine if changed happened in the US 10years ago, where would the US be now? Would people still be protesting they can't have semi automatics or would they be more like the rest of the western world with certain guns banned and licensing requirements and guns being in the back of their minds instead of at the forefront. 



 

 

sundin13 said:
ConservagameR said:

Pretty much. The more you have and more damage they can cause, the less trouble you tend to have overall. Combine them and you reduce even further. That doesn't mean no trouble whatsoever, even internally.

It wasn't connected to anything prior to the point about US citizens donating some guns to Ukraine. While Ukraine's past arsenal also made a point, the main point was how important defense is and why it's better to take it more seriously and go overboard than not. Which is part of the reason why the US is so well armed. Trying to find the perfect balance is obviously the best solution if you can find it and implement it, which is much easier said than done.

Not everyone requires the same level of defense. Some places like Canada or Australia don't arm themselves anywhere near the amount they could simply due to their geography and environment.

So...there's no point about guns and school shootings here? I mean, if you want to argue that there is value in nuclear weapons, there is some truth to that but this doesn't seem like the place. If you want to try to make an argument for arming the populace to reduce crime on the other hand, that is a pretty garbage argument although coincidentally this would be just the place to make it.

Had a chuckle when this popped up in my YouTube feed today. Reminded me of this recent post. Seems like Stossel is trying to make the argument.