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Why I like the middle ground of 10-12GB instead.



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Leynos said:

Why I like the middle ground of 10-12GB instead.

If they have separate slower ram for os and leave the fullspeed 8gb for games would be good. 



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Doctor_MG said:
freebs2 said:

I've read 1.536 core count some time ago as well (6 times the Switch), but if I'm remembering correctly it was more of a guess from the leaker.
It's not a random number since the Switch 2 is supposedly based on Ampere architecture and Ampere GPUs are modular. That is exactly the count of a single Ampere GPU processing cluster (the RTX3080 has 7 for example).

About clock speeds it's reasonable to expect lower clocks compared to OEM form factors (considering both the size of the device and battery constraints) but it's also reasonable to expect higher clock rates compared to Switch1 due to improvements in the chip manufacturing technology. Remember the Switch1 was originally designed around a 20nm chip, here we are talking at least of 8nm.

That said I wouldn't trust too much rumors atm as it seems they are based more guesswork based on similar known architectures. TBH 1.536 cores seem like a lot for essentially a mobile device based with an 8nm chip, I would say that would be absolutely the upper limit.

Hmm interesting. When I was doing some digging I thought that it was confirmed, but it does seem like it is an assumption and the source of the assumption isn't quite known. Still, I don't think that number is really that crazy, though I do agree it would be the upper limit. I don't think we would essentially be getting an off shelf T234. Too much power draw even if you were to cut the frequency. 

I'm not sure about the lower clock frequencies. Yes, it's definitely true that it will have more power per watt, but that doesn't necessarily mean the power necessary for the chip to function at these frequencies wont be high. Lastly, I would assume that the Orin chip will be bulkier than the X1, which may necessitate a smaller battery for a conservative form factor. 

Honestly, you're right though. There are just so many variables, so even though the leak tells us it's Orin, it's not really narrowing down what the Switch 2 will be capable of my as much as everyone would hope. 

That's exactly the reason why I am suggesting 1536 cores seem a bit many and a semi-custom design is more likely than an off-the-shelf one. On parity of other factors a larger chip is more expensive than a smaller one and, as you suggested, it can cause some hardware design challenges.

Why would Nintendo want to use a larger and more expensive chip only to severely under-clock it and never use it to its full potential ?
On a purely financial pow it makes more sense to obtain the same target performance using a moderately smaller chip with a moderately higher clock rate.



Leynos said:

I really feel it's this https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-orin Jetson NX

I took a closer look and I guess you might be very close to what it will be. A Q4 2022 release indicates it will be ready for a future Nintendo machine, plus it could be anywhere from 8 to 16 gigs, probably something customized to Nintendo's needs.



Captain_Yuri said:

So far as far as rumours go and thanks to the Nvidia leaks, the most legit rumours that we have are from Kopite who has successfully leaked many Nvidia GPUs in the past such as Ampere's lineup a year prior to release.

Based on my findings, here is what we know and obviously take it with heaps of salt.

So what that means is that the Switch 2's SoC should be called T239 based on GA10F which is Ampere using Samsung's 8nm. It could have 1024 Cuda cores. Theoretically this would make sense assuming the Switch 2 launches in 2024sh because the original Switch was based on Maxwell that launched during Nvidia's Pascal era, Switch 2 would be based on Ampere and launch during Nvidia's Lovelace era. T239 is a customized version of T234:

Assuming that it's all true, we still don't know what further customization Nintendo will require for it such as will it have Tensor cores? RT cores? Clock Speed? CPU? etc. It's highly unlikely it will have 12 core CPU so similar to his thoughts of halving the cuda cores, halving the CPUs would make sense.

It should be on par or beat the Steam Decks performance so at the very least, it will be around the power level of a PS4 but at 720p. With DLSS and maybe Ray Tracing (Since Steam Deck has RT support), it could exceed it but they would want to keep the cost down.

I think $300 is doable but $400 would be worst case.

It's probably going to be based on the cut-down Orin used in the Jetson Orin NX, which has 4 cores less (8 compared to 12), half as many Ampere Cuda Cores (1024 vs 2048) and half the memory bus (128 bit vs 256 bit) of the T234.

With some lowered clock speeds this should be able to bring the consumption down to ~4-5W, enough for some decent battery life without making the device too heavy.

As for the rough performance, the Jetson Orin NX has 4 times the raw teraflops of the X1 and the A78AE has more than twice the IPC than the A57, plus double the cores in this configuration. This should be enough to be somewhat above PS4 in terms of performance, especially considering that the GPU doesn't have to help out the CPU all the time here...

Leynos said:

I really feel it's this https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-orin Jetson NX

Missed your post, but as you can see, I came to the same conclusion.

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 24 March 2022

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eva01beserk said:
Leynos said:

Why I like the middle ground of 10-12GB instead.

If they have separate slower ram for os and leave the fullspeed 8gb for games would be good. 

Yeah I'm sort of assuming it'll be about 10gb, 8gb for gaming and a couple extra for the OS. That's what the Series S has right? Would be good to match that at least in order to make it easier to get more AAA console third party games on Switch 2.



CaptainExplosion said:

I just hope it's twice as powerful as the Switch at minimum.

Power? Can you be more specific?

If FLOPS:

Switch docked is 500, portable 393 Gflops.

Wii U was 176, or 2.23 - 2.84 times weaker than Switch.

Wii was 12 flops, or 14.6 times weaker than Wii U.

So yeah, I think it is safe to say it will be at least twice as powerful, unless you are measuring power by something else?

https://thegamingsetup.com/guides/console-power-comparison-chart



Dulfite said:
CaptainExplosion said:

I just hope it's twice as powerful as the Switch at minimum.

Power? Can you be more specific?

If FLOPS:

Switch docked is 500, portable 393 Gflops.

Wii U was 176, or 2.23 - 2.84 times weaker than Switch.

Wii was 12 flops, or 14.6 times weaker than Wii U.

So yeah, I think it is safe to say it will be at least twice as powerful, unless you are measuring power by something else?

https://thegamingsetup.com/guides/console-power-comparison-chart

Not only is flops irrelevant. But your Gflop count isn't even accurate.

Switch is: 384Mhz to 768Mhz.
So simple math says... 384*2*256 = 196Gflop for portable.
But with the increased clock of 460Mhz it would bring it up to 235.5Gflop for portable.

This is all single precision by the way.

Docked would be 768Mhz for 393Gflop.

It's as simple as taking the number of shader cores... 256 in this instance, multiplying it by 2 instructions per clock, multiplying it by clockrate.



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Pemalite said:
Dulfite said:

Power? Can you be more specific?

If FLOPS:

Switch docked is 500, portable 393 Gflops.

Wii U was 176, or 2.23 - 2.84 times weaker than Switch.

Wii was 12 flops, or 14.6 times weaker than Wii U.

So yeah, I think it is safe to say it will be at least twice as powerful, unless you are measuring power by something else?

https://thegamingsetup.com/guides/console-power-comparison-chart

Not only is flops irrelevant. But your Gflop count isn't even accurate.

Switch is: 384Mhz to 768Mhz.
So simple math says... 384*2*256 = 196Gflop for portable.
But with the increased clock of 460Mhz it would bring it up to 235.5Gflop for portable.

This is all single precision by the way.

Docked would be 768Mhz for 393Gflop.

It's as simple as taking the number of shader cores... 256 in this instance, multiplying it by 2 instructions per clock, multiplying it by clockrate.

I got those numbers from the graph in the link, didn't calculate the flops myself as I didn't know how. I guess their numbers are wrong?

Anyway, what's a better thing to compare for power?



CaptainExplosion said:
Dulfite said:

Power? Can you be more specific?

Basically, twice as much RAM and graphical power. Would make third party ports and native 60 fps gameplay easier, unless I'm wrong. I'm not that tech savvy.

I could be wrong, but any new generation shouldn't necessarily make it easier to hit 60 fps because the developers will be tempted to push the engine more and resolution more just as much as they will be tempted to focus on 60 fps.