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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint



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Mabey this war will end next year hopefully with some treaty. Just it seems there both sides will have to give concessions.



BiON!@ 

hellobion2 said:

Mabey this war will end next year hopefully with some treaty. Just it seems there both sides will have to give concessions.

Thank you for your thoughtful and introspective insight....and now...moving on....



Earlier today, I watched the documentary "Navalny" and was blown away,  it was so powerful ... documenting his life, his family, etc..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4PxsTqcZtw

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.”

Last edited by BFR - on 25 March 2024

hellobion2 said:

Mabey this war will end next year hopefully with some treaty. Just it seems there both sides will have to give concessions.

Very unlikely... but it depends on what kind of concessions always... Any territory concession by Ukraine will only lead to more wars and international law violations around the world in the next few years, since dictators will conlude that initiating a war is totally worth it.

Turkey will simply attack Greece and Cyprus while Azerbaijan attacks Armenia, aiming to revive their former Ottoman Empire, just like Putin wants to regain USSR terrirory. China will attack Taiwan to regain their former borders, definitely expanded Middle East conflicts as well... and God knows who else will get a chance to attack who...

Maybe small-symbolic Russian bases in Crimea and Donbas in exchange for Ukraine in NATO, anything more than that will simply lead to WW3, slowly but surely.

Thank the Baltics, the EU and UK are well aware of the risks now, and are actively working to be able to support Ukraine and European security, hopefully before it's too late.



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

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dark_gh0st_b0y said:
hellobion2 said:

Mabey this war will end next year hopefully with some treaty. Just it seems there both sides will have to give concessions.

Very unlikely... but it depends on what kind of concessions always... Any territory concession by Ukraine will only lead to more wars and international law violations around the world in the next few years, since dictators will conlude that initiating a war is totally worth it.

Turkey will simply attack Greece and Cyprus while Azerbaijan attacks Armenia, aiming to revive their former Ottoman Empire, just like Putin wants to regain USSR terrirory. China will attack Taiwan to regain their former borders, definitely expanded Middle East conflicts as well... and God knows who else will get a chance to attack who...

Maybe small-symbolic Russian bases in Crimea and Donbas in exchange for Ukraine in NATO, anything more than that will simply lead to WW3, slowly but surely.

Thank the Baltics, the EU and UK are well aware of the risks now, and are actively working to be able to support Ukraine and European security, hopefully before it's too late.

That one certainly won't happen as Greece is a Nato members. Yes, Turkey is as well which may complicate the situation but in such a scenario they likely would be expelled. Cyprus is more complicated but it feel more likely that the West would intervene is Cyprus was attacked now compared to when Turkey did attack in the 1970s.

Armenia/Azerbaijan could also happen any way as the location of those countries mean the West can't intervene anyway as they would be blocked off by either Turkey (Azerbaijan) or Russia (Armenia). There's been two wars between those countries in the last 30 or so years plus last year when Azerbaijan regained Nargno-Karabakh/Artsahk.

Taiwan though is much more of a risk though. I would also say Venezuela would be encouraged to attack Guyana.



As always, I will continue to support Ukraine for as long as they want to fight.

The only possible ways to guarantee Ukraine's security and safety after the war are either Ukraine defeating Russia on the battlefield, therefore putting them in a position where they physically are incapable of posing a threat to Ukraine anymore or if Ukraine surrenders territory to Russia it comes with an immediate ascension into NATO, I'm not talking a few years, I'm talking a few weeks at most.

Some shitty piece of paper with security guarantees is irrelevant, Ukraine already had that when they surrendered nukes. The USA, UK and Russia were meant to guarantee Ukraine's security and look where were at, some vague bullshit about us helping them if they're attacked isn't good enough, it needs to be in black and white that if Ukraine is attacked, we will put troops into Ukraine to defend them.

Otherwise, a territory concession is utterly stupid and has a proven history of not working, a pause benefits Russia to replenish their army, fix their command problems, bring in more ships to the Black Sea from their Northern Fleet and Baltic Fleet then go again, Odessa will be next, Khakrhiv will be next, Sumy will be next, Kyiv will be next.

It's also a bitter pill for Ukrainians to swallow as Zelenskyy said, how can he say to the parents that their children died for nothing when Ukraine says "keep the territory" and most Ukrainians want all their territory returned after the atrocities that Russia has committed and they don't want to abandon the Ukrainians still stuck in those territories to suffer further.

There would be a decent chance I would say of a military takeover if Zelenskyy tries to compromise with Russia to such a degree, riots in the streets of Kyiv, as happened to the last Ukrainian leader that was seen as too friendly to Russia, Zelenskyy's opinion polls were dropping pre-war partly because he was seen as too compromising to Russia as well and now the top person in opinion polls is Zaluzhnyi, a military officer.

As Dark says, dictators all over the world will come to the conclusion that starting a war is worth it, when the West's attitude becomes "oh things are too difficult for us, keep it so that we can have peace!" and abandon helping a country being invaded whilst the dictator slaughters all the citizens of said country, that's not peace, that's sticking your head in the sand as atrocities are committed.

I think France is sending arms to Armenia at least but if Russia wins in Ukraine then Azerbaijan vs Armenia will kick off because Azerbaijan will realise that nobody will come to Armenia's rescue. Moldova will be next because Russia will know that the West won't come to their rescue. Georgia will probably be next. Taiwan will be next.

The biggest risk to creating WW3 is letting imperialist take whatever they want, letting them grow more confident and arrogant, encouraging other countries to do the same, causing a chain reaction of countries being attacked, Russia must be defeated not only for Ukraine's security but for the security of countries across the world.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 25 March 2024



Agreed. When looking at who should be head of NATO, I would say the most important factors in deciding now should be who is taking the threat of Russia the most seriously and who is sending Ukraine the most support as a % of their GDP which is proof of their commitment to defending the collective security of Europe.

The biggest threat to NATO right now is Russia and it is also the biggest threat to European security, those further west have ignored eastern European countries for too long, accusing them of being too hawkish against Russia, too dismissive of their concerns, even today because they're too afraid of rocking the boat, it feels like eastern Europe isn't afforded the same respect as other countries in the west.

Fact is that eastern Europe was right and we were wrong. It's about time we take them seriously and show them more respect.

My #1 picks for "Head of NATO" would come from Estonia, followed by Lithuania and then Latvia. Then I would say Poland or Czech Republic. I would accept one of the Nordics and I wouldn't be angry about Netherlands taking it either since all these countries take the threat of Russia seriously and have contributed a lot but I'd feel the frustration of those in the Baltics to be overlooked again.

I'd not be surprised if the reason America and others supported a western European country over an eastern one was because they feel they can rein that person in more than they could an eastern European country, they are afraid of how "hawkish" they are in regards to Russia. Quite frankly, I wouldn't even given France, Spain or Italy an opinion until they match the support of other countries.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 25 March 2024