I think more than anything, Ukraine needs to make a counterattack on Donbas or Crimea. That way Putin thinks that he might actually LOSE something by continuing the war.
I think more than anything, Ukraine needs to make a counterattack on Donbas or Crimea. That way Putin thinks that he might actually LOSE something by continuing the war.
KratosLives said: why don't they come to agreement with putin. How is the displacement of millions of ukranians, thousands of civillan deaths and destruction of cities not worse ? |
why don't they come to agreement with putin. How is the displacement of millions of ukranians, thousands of civillan deaths and destruction of cities not worse ?
You seems to think to think Russia's demands are somewhat reasonable or that an agreement to something would actually make Russia stop. Why don't you ask Russia why they did not engage in diplomacy before invading? They were amassing troops at the border pretending that it was a drill and never offer Ukraine a chance to resolve the issue before shelling cities. They also reach multiple agreement for humanitarian corridor which Russia never respected. What makes you think any agreement will make shelling stop?
The only thing that seems to make sense now is the US/uk and nato want a heavily sanctioned wakened russia above anything, a halt in their military funding and advancement while the west and nato get stronger.all these sanctions were planned over a year ago.
What a load of conspiracy bullshit. If sanction would have been prepare over a year ago NATO would also have been prepared to ditch Russian Oil and gas. How about you try with an explanation like "NATO want Russia to stop their unprovoked aggression". Looks to me like it fits the current context.
Biden talked about catastrophic loss of live and destruction, before the invasion. Yet no one serious about preventing.
If you were actually paying attention, you would know that Russia provoke the west anytime they can trying to get a response to justify an escalation. The west did not give Putin what he wanted so he resorted to bullshit denazification to justify it's aggression. Any 'serious' action done for 'preventing' by the west would have been used as a justification instead, that's a certainty. And with your post, I'm inclined to think you would be now using those 'serious' action done for 'preventing' to further blame the west.
Honestly what could be worse?
Because Ukrainians live's were so great under Russia/Soviet Union I guess https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor.
"also known as the Terror-Famine"
"Current scholarship estimates a range of 4 to 7 million victims, with more precise estimates ranging from 3.3 to 5 million."
And zelnsky is an odd person. He doesn't know wjat he wants and goes back and forth. He visits people of sufferent without showing concern, accepts ovations, I don't know if he's acting or genuinely concerned, considering he was an actor.
All your supposition here doesn't even pass basic scrutiny seriously.
And zelnsky is an odd person - An unsubstantiated opinion at best
He doesn't know wjat he wants and goes back and forth. - Seems to me he want Russia out of Ukraine and the shelling to stop, it has been the case from day one.
He visits people of sufferent without showing concern (yeah right -_-, we didn't look at the same videos. What do you want him to do to "Show concern"), accepts ovations (What do you want him to do, hide under something until the ovations over?), I don't know if he's acting or genuinely concerned(I don't know if you're tying to push an agenda or you're genuinely concerned), considering he was an actor. -(Yes we all know how bad an actor becoming president can be. Yet Zelensky actions speak for themselves. If he did not have concern for Ukrainians he would not be in Kyiv right now, cause you know he isn't acting like he is in Kyiv right now, he is in kyiv right now. )
What exactly is he hoping for, ukraine victory and at whats cost?
How about securing the freedom Ukrainians fought so hard to obtain in recent years? Considering the overwhelming support Zelensky have from Ukrainians right now why are you asking what Zelensky wants, why not ask what Ukrainians wants?
Ryuu96 said:
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Isn't it "funny" how Russia has military bases in other countries (Vietnam as example) but complains about countries who want to be part of NATO and have a NATO base?
KratosLives said: why don't they come to agreement with putin. How is the displacement of millions of ukranians, thousands of civillan deaths and destruction of cities not worse ? Mod Edit: This user has been sent a private message responding this post. |
To use an easy example. Ukraine is like a woman who wants to be as free as guys. Russia is like a guy waiting for woman in a park raping all he can get.
Now what you say isn't "we need to stop the rapist". You say "woman just have to give up their freedom to move around wherever they want and everything is fine then"
Seriously, that's what you ask for. Just give up your freedom and everything is fine.
EpicRandy said:
why don't they come to agreement with putin. How is the displacement of millions of ukranians, thousands of civillan deaths and destruction of cities not worse ? You seems to think to think Russia's demands are somewhat reasonable or that an agreement to something would actually make Russia stop. Why don't you ask Russia why they did not engage in diplomacy before invading? They were amassing troops at the border pretending that it was a drill and never offer Ukraine a chance to resolve the issue before shelling cities. They also reach multiple agreement for humanitarian corridor which Russia never respected. What makes you think any agreement will make shelling stop? The only thing that seems to make sense now is the US/uk and nato want a heavily sanctioned wakened russia above anything, a halt in their military funding and advancement while the west and nato get stronger.all these sanctions were planned over a year ago. What a load of conspiracy bullshit. If sanction would have been prepare over a year ago NATO would also have been prepared to ditch Russian Oil and gas. How about you try with an explanation like "NATO want Russia to stop their unprovoked aggression". Looks to me like it fits the current context. Biden talked about catastrophic loss of live and destruction, before the invasion. Yet no one serious about preventing. If you were actually paying attention, you would know that Russia provoke the west anytime they can trying to get a response to justify an escalation. The west did not give Putin what he wanted so he resorted to bullshit denazification to justify it's aggression. Any 'serious' action done for 'preventing' by the west would have been used as a justification instead, that's a certainty. And with your post, I'm inclined to think you would be now using those 'serious' action done for 'preventing' to further blame the west. Honestly what could be worse? Because Ukrainians live's were so great under Russia/Soviet Union I guess https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor. And zelnsky is an odd person. He doesn't know wjat he wants and goes back and forth. He visits people of sufferent without showing concern, accepts ovations, I don't know if he's acting or genuinely concerned, considering he was an actor. All your supposition here doesn't even pass basic scrutiny seriously. What exactly is he hoping for, ukraine victory and at whats cost? |
7 million displaced ukranians , heavy damages to cities and 2 or 3 million fled the country, along with civillan deaths, numbering who knows what.
One senior in Ukraine talking on social media/news report on youtube saying "well who knows what putin would do or how can he be trusted if they negotiated to his terms, only for him to then go after all of ukraine or make life a misery." Well if that was to happen, surely the ukranians will put up a fight, and get international help, but that's an if putin does that. Atleast if they negotiate now they can atleast save many lives and cities taken, and less damage caused, and maybe if ukraine can remain neutral and not upset putin, they can develop as a country while being neutral and avoiding war. Are putin's demands really that more damaging?
But if they go this route of trying to fight russia, what are the chances or what do they think they will gain in the end? How much value do you put on one civillian or many thousands, and what extent do you go to save even 1.
crissindahouse said:
To use an easy example. Ukraine is like a woman who wants to be as free as guys. Russia is like a guy waiting for woman in a park raping all he can get. Now what you say isn't "we need to stop the rapist". You say "woman just have to give up their freedom to move around wherever they want and everything is fine then" Seriously, that's what you ask for. Just give up your freedom and everything is fine. What exactly is putin asking the average ukranian to give up, going by his demands, which Is maninly security related? Say they negotiated tomorow, what will happen to the average citizen? Were they any better than the russians? |
Ka-pi96 said:
Why the fuck should they care about not upsetting that pathetic little man? Yeah, let's all just bow down to violent bullies and let them do whatever the fuck they want. That makes total sense. Jog on with ridiculous suggestions like that. Plus, how the fuck can they avoid war? They aren't the ones that started it. Why are you blaming the victim? Why are they fighting now? Because it's a lot easier to try and fight the moment somebody breaks into your house rather than when they've got you pinned to the floor with a gun pointed at your head, it's too late to fight back then! |
Putin had his own security concerns, fears. Sometimes it makes sense to make a compromise, even if not entirely favorable, then end to end up in a much worse state. What if this drags on for months or years.. By the end of it, if zelensky is still alive, will have to look at damage done and ask was it worth not negotiating and making some compromises.
KratosLives said:
Putin had his own security concerns, fears. Sometimes it makes sense to make a compromise, even if not entirely favorable, then end to end up in a much worse state. What if this drags on for months or years.. By the end of it, if zelensky is still alive, will have to look at damage done and ask was it worth not negotiating and making some compromises. |
it depends on the compromise always, but what about the future? if Putin gets what he wants one way or another (e.g. Crimea, Donbas +), then won't that will inspire many powerful countries to attack and conquer and kill until surrender, and voila, more territory to do as you wish, isn't that going back to the middle ages? is that really going to save lives in the long term? what about international law? what about avoiding wars in the future? as Zelensky says, it really is a fight between light and darkness, defending freedom
and as a Christian, I find it utterly disgusting that Patriatch Kirill, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church actually supported Putin towards freeing what is corrupted by evil forces from the West, unbelievable!! I have no words to describe how I feel about this, utterly twisted. One of the times I understand people that are against religion. What is the point of Christianity, if Jesus teaching is absolutely ignored, sick - mind blown -
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, Thou shalt not kill...
don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^
At this point, I am convinced KratosLives is a Russian propogandist paid by their government to spread absolute nonsense. Sad to say it.