By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Jaicee on 08 March 2022
Ryuu96 said:

FINALLY!!

Best thing Biden's done since the Covid relief package a year ago. I hope Congress still passes a legislative version of the ban because that's more difficult to reverse.

Also worth pointing out: the UK is also phasing out oil purchases from Russia as of today. However, our ban in the U.S. differs in that it also includes prohibitions on the importation of natural gas and coal from Russia as well.

Oil and natural gas are Russia's main exports. Barring them from exporting those things is the most significant punitive step we can take short of military action and also by far the most potent one. I know gas prices will be higher as a result. It's worth it.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 08 March 2022

Around the Network
crissindahouse on 08 March 2022
ClassicGamingWizzz said:

This is making me fucking depressed saw a video of these animals blowing a car with a old couple, armed tank was like 10 meter away...

Mining the refugee corridors...

And european countries still dont want to stop all oil imports from russia...

It's easy for USA to stop the percentual already small imports when they just replace them with Venezualian oil telling Venezuela that they have to prioritize USA first so that USA doesn't really have real problems but what is Europe supposed to do? Arabian countries already said they won't increase their output. 

It's not as easy as it sounds just because it was for USA.



EpicRandy on 09 March 2022



Compared to 2 days age (last time I posted the summary)
+1000+ troops
+3 planes
+13 helicopter
+27 tanks
+3 artillery
+71 personnel carriers
+6 MLRS
+28 cars
+4 UAV
+5 anti-aircraft

If we compare things to yesterday however there seems to be a notable slowdown in the assets loss for Russian. Might be just a fluke or might be that the Russian changed tactics and are not rushing anymore?



Mandalore76 on 09 March 2022
Machiavellian said:
Mandalore76 said:

And all it took was two weeks of war and atrocities for him to do it.  It's sad that it took Ukrainian officials publicly pointing out that the US and its allies were basically funding Russia's war effort by continuing to buy their invader's main export despite sanctioning everything else.

It's the right move, but it shouldn't have required Ukraine begging/pleading for it to happen.

Lets put this more in perspective.  While it may seem easy to make this decision its really not all that simple.  As people forget, the Biden Administration was actively making deals with multiple nations to make sure that putting sanctions on Russian oil would not leave the US and also EU in a serious situation where we are at 10 dollars a gallon or without oil for EU since they are so dependent.  While it may seem that the administration was sitting on their hands its actually not correct.  Its like leaving a job without actually having another one lined up.  The administration needed to make deals and shift resources and thus allow them to make this move without to much cost in the short term.  Long term of course would be more investment in renewal energy.

Doesn't look like that has been going well.

Leaders in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) declined calls with President Biden as the war in Ukraine intensified, Middle East and U.S. officialstold The Wall Street Journal on Tuesday.

"There was some expectation of a phone call, but it didn't happen," a U.S. official told the Journal regarding a call between Biden and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. "It was part of turning on the spigot [of Saudi oil]."

UAE leader Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed also declined a call from Biden, according to the officials.

Officials told the outlet that U.S. relations with the two Gulf countries have been strained over the Biden administration's lack of support in the war in Yemen and the revived negotiations concerning the Iran nuclear deal.

Saudi Arabia and the UAE both said they will not produce more oil than agreed on by the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, the Journal noted.

Saudi, UAE leaders declined calls with Biden amid Ukraine conflict: report



Machiavellian on 09 March 2022
Mandalore76 said:
Machiavellian said:

Lets put this more in perspective.  While it may seem easy to make this decision its really not all that simple.  As people forget, the Biden Administration was actively making deals with multiple nations to make sure that putting sanctions on Russian oil would not leave the US and also EU in a serious situation where we are at 10 dollars a gallon or without oil for EU since they are so dependent.  While it may seem that the administration was sitting on their hands its actually not correct.  Its like leaving a job without actually having another one lined up.  The administration needed to make deals and shift resources and thus allow them to make this move without to much cost in the short term.  Long term of course would be more investment in renewal energy.

Doesn't look like that has been going well.

Leaders in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) declined calls with President Biden as the war in Ukraine intensified, Middle East and U.S. officialstold The Wall Street Journal on Tuesday.

"There was some expectation of a phone call, but it didn't happen," a U.S. official told the Journal regarding a call between Biden and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. "It was part of turning on the spigot [of Saudi oil]."

UAE leader Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed also declined a call from Biden, according to the officials.

Officials told the outlet that U.S. relations with the two Gulf countries have been strained over the Biden administration's lack of support in the war in Yemen and the revived negotiations concerning the Iran nuclear deal.

Saudi Arabia and the UAE both said they will not produce more oil than agreed on by the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, the Journal noted.

Saudi, UAE leaders declined calls with Biden amid Ukraine conflict: report

You are only just listing Saudi Arabia, we already knew they stated they could or would not increase production but they are not the only producers in the world.  The thing you have to realize is that a decision like this is not some knee jerk reaction.  There is a lot going on behind the scenes because everything has a cost.  Also, we do not know if this was put on the table and sent to Putin to let him know if Russia does not end this war more sanctions are coming.  If you just throw everything at once you put a person in a corner where they just say "F*** it".  Each response has to be measured, negotiate, measured.  Also getting the world to come together instead of going it all John Wayne is a totally better solution with much bigger cost to Russia.

Do not believe that any of this will actually stop Putin, but the cost needs to be so high that it would be a century before Russia decides to go this route again.  The US only account for 3% of Russia oil so its not as big of a deal for the US to make this move but other countries its going to be a tough sell.  Hell even in the US they are crying about 5 bucks at the pump.  US is so dependant on cheap fuel, food, products but when they actually have to live like other nations do, well their giving and support wane pretty quickly.  I am sure we will see many memes and GOP blame Biden for everything but then again that is par for the course in politics.



Around the Network
Mandalore76 on 09 March 2022
Machiavellian said:
Mandalore76 said:

Doesn't look like that has been going well.

Leaders in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) declined calls with President Biden as the war in Ukraine intensified, Middle East and U.S. officialstold The Wall Street Journal on Tuesday.

"There was some expectation of a phone call, but it didn't happen," a U.S. official told the Journal regarding a call between Biden and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. "It was part of turning on the spigot [of Saudi oil]."

UAE leader Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed also declined a call from Biden, according to the officials.

Officials told the outlet that U.S. relations with the two Gulf countries have been strained over the Biden administration's lack of support in the war in Yemen and the revived negotiations concerning the Iran nuclear deal.

Saudi Arabia and the UAE both said they will not produce more oil than agreed on by the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, the Journal noted.

Saudi, UAE leaders declined calls with Biden amid Ukraine conflict: report

You are only just listing Saudi Arabia, we already knew they stated they could or would not increase production but they are not the only producers in the world.  The thing you have to realize is that a decision like this is not some knee jerk reaction.  There is a lot going on behind the scenes because everything has a cost.  Also, we do not know if this was put on the table and sent to Putin to let him know if Russia does not end this war more sanctions are coming.  If you just throw everything at once you put a person in a corner where they just say "F*** it".  Each response has to be measured, negotiate, measured.  Also getting the world to come together instead of going it all John Wayne is a totally better solution with much bigger cost to Russia.

Do not believe that any of this will actually stop Putin, but the cost needs to be so high that it would be a century before Russia decides to go this route again.  The US only account for 3% of Russia oil so its not as big of a deal for the US to make this move but other countries its going to be a tough sell.  Hell even in the US they are crying about 5 bucks at the pump.  US is so dependant on cheap fuel, food, products but when they actually have to live like other nations do, well their giving and support wane pretty quickly.  I am sure we will see many memes and GOP blame Biden for everything but then again that is par for the course in politics.

At first bolded, it's what the Wall Street Journal reported, and they listed both Saudi Arabia and the Emirates.

At second bolded, yes, it would be par for the course in politics considering Democrat senators hammered Trump over gas prices that were significantly lower than they are today.  I agree it is a tactic employed by both parties for decades on an issue that often has little to do with the commander in chief.  Baring that in mind, it's hypocritical to lament when one president gets treated exactly the same on an issue as his predecessor:

"Are you creeping along on fumes because #GasPrices are so high?  I'll join [Senator Maria Cantwell,] [Senator Bob Menendez] & [Senator Ed Markey] to push [Trump] to start fighting for lower gas prices for hardworking Americans LIVE in a few minutes."  - Chuck Schumer May 23, 2018 - Average Price of Regular Grade Gasoline = $2.93/gallon

"Prescription drug prices are skyrocketing. Gas prices continue to rise. Health care costs and premiums are through the roof. Wages are stagnant. What is the solution Trump and Republicans in Washington propose?" Nancy Pelosi July 30, 2018 - Average Price of Regular Grade Gasoline = $2.85/gallon

Meanwhile:

Average US Price of Regular Grade Gasoline on Biden's Innaguration Day = $2.38/gallon

Average US Price of Regular Grade Gasoline in March 2021 (before Russia first started massing troops on Ukraine's border) = $2.86/gallon

March 30: Military moves

In March, Russia launched a massive military buildup near its border with Ukraine, prompting Ukraine’s then-military chief, Ruslan Khomchak, to warn that the Russian action threatened Ukraine. In April, Russia withdrew some forces but left much of its equipment in place.

Average US Price of Regular Grade Gasoline by end of September 2021 (before Russia resumed massing troops on Ukraine's border) = $3.18/gallon

By October, Russia had resumed its military buildup near Ukraine.

Average US Price of Regular Grade Gasoline February 21, 2022 (before Russia invaded Ukraine on 2/24/22) = $3.53/gallon

Average US Price of Regular Grade Gasoline as of March, 7 2022 = $4.10/gallon

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/08/russia-us-nato-putin-ukraine/

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=EMM_EPMR_PTE_NUS_DPG&f=W



crissindahouse on 09 March 2022
Mandalore76 said:
Machiavellian said:

You are only just listing Saudi Arabia, we already knew they stated they could or would not increase production but they are not the only producers in the world.  The thing you have to realize is that a decision like this is not some knee jerk reaction.  There is a lot going on behind the scenes because everything has a cost.  Also, we do not know if this was put on the table and sent to Putin to let him know if Russia does not end this war more sanctions are coming.  If you just throw everything at once you put a person in a corner where they just say "F*** it".  Each response has to be measured, negotiate, measured.  Also getting the world to come together instead of going it all John Wayne is a totally better solution with much bigger cost to Russia.

Do not believe that any of this will actually stop Putin, but the cost needs to be so high that it would be a century before Russia decides to go this route again.  The US only account for 3% of Russia oil so its not as big of a deal for the US to make this move but other countries its going to be a tough sell.  Hell even in the US they are crying about 5 bucks at the pump.  US is so dependant on cheap fuel, food, products but when they actually have to live like other nations do, well their giving and support wane pretty quickly.  I am sure we will see many memes and GOP blame Biden for everything but then again that is par for the course in politics.

At first bolded, it's what the Wall Street Journal reported, and they listed both Saudi Arabia and the Emirates.

At second bolded, yes, it would be par for the course in politics considering Democrat senators hammered Trump over gas prices that were significantly lower than they are today.  I agree it is a tactic employed by both parties for decades on an issue that often has little to do with the commander in chief.  Baring that in mind, it's hypocritical to lament when one president gets treated exactly the same on an issue as his predecessor:

"Are you creeping along on fumes because #GasPrices are so high?  I'll join [Senator Maria Cantwell,] [Senator Bob Menendez] & [Senator Ed Markey] to push [Trump] to start fighting for lower gas prices for hardworking Americans LIVE in a few minutes."  - Chuck Schumer May 23, 2018 - Average Price of Regular Grade Gasoline = $2.93/gallon

"Prescription drug prices are skyrocketing. Gas prices continue to rise. Health care costs and premiums are through the roof. Wages are stagnant. What is the solution Trump and Republicans in Washington propose?" Nancy Pelosi July 30, 2018 - Average Price of Regular Grade Gasoline = $2.85/gallon

Meanwhile:

Average US Price of Regular Grade Gasoline on Biden's Innaguration Day = $2.38/gallon

Average US Price of Regular Grade Gasoline in March 2021 (before Russia first started massing troops on Ukraine's border) = $2.86/gallon

March 30: Military moves

In March, Russia launched a massive military buildup near its border with Ukraine, prompting Ukraine’s then-military chief, Ruslan Khomchak, to warn that the Russian action threatened Ukraine. In April, Russia withdrew some forces but left much of its equipment in place.

Average US Price of Regular Grade Gasoline by end of September 2021 (before Russia resumed massing troops on Ukraine's border) = $3.18/gallon

By October, Russia had resumed its military buildup near Ukraine.

Average US Price of Regular Grade Gasoline February 21, 2022 (before Russia invaded Ukraine on 2/24/22) = $3.53/gallon

Average US Price of Regular Grade Gasoline as of March, 7 2022 = $4.10/gallon

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/08/russia-us-nato-putin-ukraine/

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=EMM_EPMR_PTE_NUS_DPG&f=W

I've paid around $11.50 for a gallon in Germany today and you Americans think prices are high now^^ but I hope you realize why the price moved up in USA (which is still a joke to what most Europeans paid even before the war) and that sometimes, even if prices go up it's something you shouldn't be too angry about if there is an understandable reason for it. 

I also hate to pay more for everything now but the alternative would have been less sanctions which I would hate even more. 



EpicRandy on 09 March 2022
Ryuu96 said:

Missed this part of the tweet.

The sheer incompetence of the Russian military...

I would never have thought that Russia would be so bad. Russian leaders does not show anymore of a consideration for their own troops then they shows for Ukrainians. All that matter for them is the speed at which they would have liked to wrap things up, that's why their logistics failed, that's why they endure so many loss.

It sure does looks like Putin is looking up to Zapp Brannigan for tactics here: "You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down. Kif, show them the medal I won."

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 09 March 2022

Signalstar on 09 March 2022
EpicRandy said:
Ryuu96 said:

Missed this part of the tweet.

The sheer incompetence of the Russian military...

I would never have thought that Russia would be so bad. Russian leaders does not show anymore of a consideration for their own troops then they shows for Ukrainians. All that matter for them is the speed at which they would have liked to wrap things up, that's why their logistics failed, that's why they endure so many loss.

It sure does looks like Putin is looking up to Zapp Brannigan for tactics here: "You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down. Kif, show them the medal I won."

That was already Russia's strategy for WWI and WWII...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gWECYYOSo

Please Watch/Share this video so it gets shown in Hollywood.

Dulfite on 09 March 2022
Ryuu96 said:

Bullshit.

This is massive. Putin finally got pinned in a corner where he had two bad options and he had to choose one of them: Either admit he was lying to his own people or admit he doesn't have a firm control on his own military, further showing his incompetence.