By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

I think he wants to prove he's tough without using the nukes, because winning the war with nukes on a country smaller than them means he wasn't tough enough to beat Ukraine at their game. And him pulling back means he's tired or something? Using a nuke on a Country smaller than them is a sign of weakness.

Last edited by SegaHeart - on 14 May 2022

Cute and honest Sega Saturn fan, also noone should buy Sega grrrr, Sega for life.

Around the Network
SegaHeart said:

I think he wants to prove he's tough without using the nukes, because winning the war with nukes on a country smaller than them means he wasn't tough enough to beat Ukraine at their game. And him pulling back means he's tired or something? Using a nuke on a Country smaller than them is a sign of weakness.

Using nuclear weapons would be suicide for the entire Russian nation.



SanAndreasX said:
SegaHeart said:

I think he wants to prove he's tough without using the nukes, because winning the war with nukes on a country smaller than them means he wasn't tough enough to beat Ukraine at their game. And him pulling back means he's tired or something? Using a nuke on a Country smaller than them is a sign of weakness.

Using nuclear weapons would be suicide for the entire Russian nation.

Agree

Last edited by SegaHeart - on 14 May 2022

Cute and honest Sega Saturn fan, also noone should buy Sega grrrr, Sega for life.

S.Peelman said:

So Ukraine won Eurovision just now. I wonder how Russia will respond.

To be fair when I found out Ukraine were participating didn't even need to watch to know the outcome.

The preview I saw of all the songs they were all underwhelming though. Maybe I am getting harsher at my older age lol.



 

 

SanAndreasX said:
SegaHeart said:

I think he wants to prove he's tough without using the nukes, because winning the war with nukes on a country smaller than them means he wasn't tough enough to beat Ukraine at their game. And him pulling back means he's tired or something? Using a nuke on a Country smaller than them is a sign of weakness.

Using nuclear weapons would be suicide for the entire Russian nation.

This war is economic suicide for Russia it didn't stop them. Nuking Ukraine and let the wind blow radioactive ashes and particles over Europe is a way out to say I lost, but so did my enemie and most of its allies. Which will probably also be pushed by the UN to restore Ukraine and deal with the refugee crisis. Also using a nuke would ensure NATO not going after Russia. I mean which country will invade another country which not only had enough nukes to kill every civilian in that country but is also willing to use it. The old system of bilateral trade ensures peace doesn't work anymore.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Around the Network
Qwark said:
SanAndreasX said:

Using nuclear weapons would be suicide for the entire Russian nation.

This war is economic suicide for Russia it didn't stop them. Nuking Ukraine and let the wind blow radioactive ashes and particles over Europe is a way out to say I lost, but so did my enemie and most of its allies. Which will probably also be pushed by the UN to restore Ukraine and deal with the refugee crisis. Also using a nuke would ensure NATO not going after Russia. I mean which country will invade another country which not only had enough nukes to kill every civilian in that country but is also willing to use it. The old system of bilateral trade ensures peace doesn't work anymore.

They did not expect this to be an economic suicide. What they likely expected was sanctions similar to 2014, which would hurt their economy further but it would still be healthy enough for people of Moscow & St Petersburg to be satisfied and elite could continue to steal money from people.

But the response from the West was much, much stronger. Now it's obvious Putin feels his position is threatened. Propaganda went into overdrive, it's desperate, he knows he fucked up everything. 

Nuking Ukraine and letting a wind blow radioactive waste everywhere is not a way out of anything, not even Russian leaders would be dumb enough to use that kind of logic. Using a nuke would ensure they'll lose whatever support they have from countries like China.

Last edited by KiigelHeart - on 15 May 2022

Ryuu96 said:
S.Peelman said:

So Ukraine won Eurovision just now. I wonder how Russia will respond.

Probably claim that every country which gave points to Ukraine is full of Nazis.

Yes, something like that.

Cobretti2 said:

To be fair when I found out Ukraine were participating didn't even need to watch to know the outcome.

The preview I saw of all the songs they were all underwhelming though. Maybe I am getting harsher at my older age lol.

On one hand I like that Ukraine won because it’s a nice gesture, but on the other it is just that, a gesture, and they really only won because of this war which is kind of unfair. I imagine this would give the artists a double feeling as well.

For what it’s worth Ukraine was fourth in jury points, but had a landslide victory in televotes. Of-topic but yeah the quality was quite mediocre this year.

I read that president Zelenskyy would like to see the contest be hosted in Mariupol next year. Here’s hoping they can!



KiigelHeart said:
Qwark said:

This war is economic suicide for Russia it didn't stop them. Nuking Ukraine and let the wind blow radioactive ashes and particles over Europe is a way out to say I lost, but so did my enemie and most of its allies. Which will probably also be pushed by the UN to restore Ukraine and deal with the refugee crisis. Also using a nuke would ensure NATO not going after Russia. I mean which country will invade another country which not only had enough nukes to kill every civilian in that country but is also willing to use it. The old system of bilateral trade ensures peace doesn't work anymore.

They did not expect this to be an economic suicide. Nuking Ukraine and letting a wind blow radioactive waste everywhere is not a way out of anything, not even Russian leaders would be dumb enough to use that kind of logic. Using a nuke would ensure they'll lose whatever support they have from countries like China.

Why would China care so much though. It's not like trade with Europe will stop or even significantly decrease because of it, nor will Europe impose sanctions on China. Also Europe will still likely keep buying gas from Russia, perhaps less oil although an EU accord is unlikely. However Ukraine is spirit will be broken after a nuclear attack and probably the war will be over pretty fast afterwards.

I really don't see nuking Ukraine will have that much of a backlash for Russia. Sure UN would say this is bad Russia, don't do that anymore. Especially if they sell their oil a bit cheaper than other OPEC countries. Most developing countries like India and China will buy as much energy as they can regardless. For Russia this is far cheaper than waging this war anyway.

I hope Russia doesn't nuke Ukraine, but at this moment they are losing and don't have a non humiliating way out. So I think it's not as far fetched as we think. Especially since non western countries+ Japan, Taiwan and South Korea, by now practically criticized the sanctions more than the invasion. China, Brazil (depends on fertilizers) and India won't sanction Russia and could economically ensure the survival of the country.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

It's not worth worrying about Imo, there is next to zero chance that Russia uses nukes, we're talking nukes here, they'd be shunned by almost the entire world, I strongly doubt normal trade relations would return after Russia has just nuked a country and it would cause multiple countries to trip over themselves trying to get into NATO, it won't just be Finland and Sweden joining NATO anymore but anyone who has even a slight fear of Russia.

Where would Russia even nuke as well? They can't nuke Kyiv, it's far too close to Belarus, Russia would essentially be nuking them too when they get a massive dose of radiation flowing over into their country, I don't think even Lukashenko is that stupid to continue to be a Russian ally after Russia just dosed them with radiation and his citizens would be up in arms as they were recently when they tried to overthrow him.

They nuke Lviv and the radiation spreads into Poland, that could very easily be seen as an attack on NATO and then all bets are off, I don't know if NATO would respond with nukes but there is zero chance they just sit around and do nothing in response, it's all but an attack on NATO, Poland would flip their shit as would other countries nearby, at minimum I would imagine America and allies would bomb the shit out of Russian military infrastructure.

They nuke South Ukraine/Eastern Ukraine they're nuking their own troops...Imagine "hey we nuked tens of thousands of our own troops, including the our breakaway allies in Donbas but at least Ukraine is destroyed!"...I also wouldn't be so sure that Ukraine would surrender after a nuke...Why would they? Russia is already bombing the shit out of their cities and trying to turn each one to rubble and tying to genocide the Ukraine ethnic population.

I think it's far more likely the war would get even more brutal, Ukraine is already bombing Belgorod military targets, a Russian city, they have the capability to strike Russia back and if Russia used a nuke on Ukraine, I think Ukraine's strikes on Russian soil would quickly become more brutal, especially when their troops have already reached the Russian border.

Using a nuke on a country which literally borders you is insanity, it'd turn them into a permanent enemy, not that I don't think that hasn't already happened but payback is a lot easier when the country is right next door, you'd create an enemy next door which quite literally wants nothing more than to see your entire country dead and that's a very dangerous thing, not to mention, the nuclear radiation would hit Russia too.

It's also worth mentioning everything that Ukraine produces for the world, Ukraine in 2020 was the 5th largest exporter of wheat in the world and their biggest buyers were countries like Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, etc. Ukraine is the 4th largest exporter of corn as of 2020 and their largest buyers was China and that's just the food exports.

Ukraine produces 18% of the world’s sunflower seed, safflower or cottonseed oil exports; 13% of corn production; 12% of global barley exports; and 8% of wheat and meslin and their biggest buyer is China. Russia just saying fuck it and nuking Ukraine would have devastating effects on the global food market and turn countries which sat on the fence with Russia into hating Russia.

This is key for why China would care, I've no doubt China knew about Russia's plans but also likely believed it would be over in a matter of days, now China is stuck and so sits on the fence but I don't think China wants Ukraine to be totally destroyed just as much as Europe doesn't, but for selfish reasons, economic ones, they need Ukraine's exports.

Also China actually has a pact with Ukraine to come to their defence if Ukraine is ever attacked by nuclear weapons (Under New Scrutiny: China’s Nuclear Pledge to Ukraine - WSJ) so there's that too, whether China sticks to their word or not is another matter, if they don't, they show to the world and their allies that their words and agreements mean jack shit and hurt their international standing.

So saying all of that, I think the chances of Russia using nukes are next to zero.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 15 May 2022

Qwark said:
KiigelHeart said:

They did not expect this to be an economic suicide. Nuking Ukraine and letting a wind blow radioactive waste everywhere is not a way out of anything, not even Russian leaders would be dumb enough to use that kind of logic. Using a nuke would ensure they'll lose whatever support they have from countries like China.

Why would China care so much though. It's not like trade with Europe will stop or even significantly decrease because of it, nor will Europe impose sanctions on China. Also Europe will still likely keep buying gas from Russia, perhaps less oil although an EU accord is unlikely. However Ukraine is spirit will be broken after a nuclear attack and probably the war will be over pretty fast afterwards.

I really don't see nuking Ukraine will have that much of a backlash for Russia. Sure UN would say this is bad Russia, don't do that anymore. Especially if they sell their oil a bit cheaper than other OPEC countries. Most developing countries like India and China will buy as much energy as they can regardless. For Russia this is far cheaper than waging this war anyway.

I hope Russia doesn't nuke Ukraine, but at this moment they are losing and don't have a non humiliating way out. So I think it's not as far fetched as we think. Especially since non western countries+ Japan, Taiwan and South Korea, by now practically criticized the sanctions more than the invasion. China, Brazil (depends on fertilizers) and India won't sanction Russia and could economically ensure the survival of the country.

I'd argue the opposite. Russia using nuclear weapons to attack Ukraine wouldn't break Ukraine's spirit. It would create an incredible amount of anger and hatred for generations. Many Ukrainians wouldn't care about defending their country anymore, instead they'd be looking for revenge...