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Forums - PC Discussion - Steam Deck looks awful

 

Thoughts on the Steam Deck?

Way too big, who wants to play an anvil? 19 27.14%
 
Bad design but still cool idea 17 24.29%
 
Maybe a Steam Deck Mini w... 3 4.29%
 
Does it come with a wireless gamepad? lol 1 1.43%
 
I'll just play it on my c... 0 0%
 
It's huge but still looking forward to it 11 15.71%
 
You're crazy it looks awesome 19 27.14%
 
Total:70
Mandalore76 on 08 February 2022
Chazore said:
JWeinCom said:

There's a video of someone above putting his Switch into very normal sized pants directly above you. Doesn't look like there is a black hole in there. Jackets also have pockets by the way.

You have to detach the joycons and engage a whole SECOND POCKET?! Madness. WHY SHOULD YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT?! Seriously, you're trying to make this sound like the most complex thing in the world. It's not very hard. I don't think I've said that all, or even most people actually do that. I'm not going to speculate as to how many people actually do because I don't have anything beyond very limited anecdotal data.  

They only make carrying cases because most people use them? Ummmm... no? If some people use them, that's sufficient. They sold carrying cases for the SP too, so pretty dumb argument. Pretty sure they've sold carrying cases for every noteworthy portable system ever. You are going to comical lengths to avoid the obvious point. Being able to fit in your pocket is a big plus for handhelds. The Steamdeck cannot fit in your pocket. And, the bulky size makes it generally more cumbersome than smaller systems wherever you do carry it. Many people think that this significantly diminishes the Steam Deck's appeal. Pretty rational position. 

Yes I know, and I was saying that just because he can in the video, doesn't mean everyone can or will, that's the point I was trying to make.

Having to detach joycons to make it fit in the pocket just defeats the argument of having the whole device apparently fit entirely into your pocket in the first place.

See I'm not the one making a complex argument of why the Deck has to fit in your pocket or it's in dead water here, you guys in this very thread are bringing up the pocket argument and defending the Switch "semi" being able to fit into "some" people's pockets, and that Deck somehow has to do that or you may as well own a desktop PC, which already sounds like a dumb argument to begin with. 

Both devices support their own respective carry cases, both will support mini bags to carry them within said carry cases, that is after all why they exist, to serve that purpose. If they were never at all needed, then why do they exist if they can perfectly fit into everyone's pocket?. 

It's not rational at all when we know for a fact that most people use the carrying cases and even say so in this very thread. The fact that Nintendo is selling all forms of carry cases proves merit to this and makes the idea that "it's pocket or die" to being completely irrational and stupid to one's intellect.

No, the deck doesn't have to fit into your pocket of all places. it has a carry case, people don't shove laptops into their pockets, let alone tablets big and small, they put them into handbags, carry cases, satchel bags, backpacks.

It's not diminishing it's appeal in such a large way as the few of you here are making it out to be, and making it one of the biggest reasons to not bother with it just comes off as really, really dumb.

I think you are focusing on the wrong part when it comes to the "portability" argument.  I do own a Switch, and I also do own a carry case for it.  If I'm going to work or on an overnight trip, yes, I stick the Switch into the carry case so I can leave it in the car until lunchbreak or wherever in the place I'm staying overnight is.  But, if I'm going out to dinner, to a movie, or anywhere else that I don't want to be lugging an additional piece of baggage around, I'm going to stick the Switch in one of my pockets.  In cold weather, it's super convenient to just slide into the inside pocket of a jacket joycons and all.  But, I have on occassion carried the Switch in pants pockets (yes deep pockets) without issue.  And the point about removing the joycons making it even easier to carry in a pants pocket is just to show that the Switch has that added option to be more portable when necessary.  The Steamdeck doesn't have that same grab and go allure.  It's looking more like something that needs to be packed and lugged around. 

Personally, I'm on the fence about getting one.  It would be interesting to be able to access my PC library away from home.  But, I'm not going to pretend that it has the same take with me anywhere potential that the Switch does.  Hopefully, one day they'll be in a Best Buy kiosk or something where you can hold one in your hands and determine if the form factor and button layout is for you without having to take someone else's word for it and commit to buying one first.



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Conina on 08 February 2022
victor83fernandes said:

Steam deck will flop as hard as the Vita.

Apples and oranges. Steam Deck doesn't need to sell x million devices to get enough games. It ain't dependant on its own eco system like Vita or WiiU. It is part of a bigger eco system with thousands of compatible PC games.

victor83fernandes said:

Most people would just get a laptop for pc gaming, as steam deck is not much more portable than a laptop.

Of course it is more portable than a laptop.

victor83fernandes said:

PC games are quite big usually, its not like on the switch where most games are under 20gb, so space might be an issue.

There are big PC games, medium sized PC games and small PC games.

There are big Switch games, medium sized Switch games and small Switch games.

Less than 150 of my Steam games are bigger than 20 GB, ~200 of my Steam games are 10 - 20 GB, ~380 of my Steam games are 5 - 10 GB and OVER 3000 of my Steam games are under 5 GB.

I looked up some games I have for both devices:

  • L. A. Noire on my Switch: 13.1 GB; in my Steam library: 13.9 GB
  • Saints Row 4 on my Switch: 8.5 GB; in my Steam library: 9.9 GB
  • Perception on my Switch: 7.1 GB; in my Steam library: 6.3 GB
  • Silence on my Switch: 6.9 GB; in my Steam library: 7.0 GB
  • Hollow Knight on my Switch: 5.2 GB; in my Steam library: 7.4 GB
  • Snake Pass on my Switch: 4.2 GB; in my Steam library: 3.4 GB
  • Burnout Paradise on my Switch: 3.9 GB; in my Steam library: 3.2 GB
  • Apocalipsis on my Switch: 3.7 GB; in my Steam library: 3.6 GB
  • Bear with Me: The Lost Robots on my Switch: 3.2 GB; in my Steam library: 4.2 GB
  • The Wardrobe on my Switch: 3.0 GB; in my Steam library: 3.2 GB
  • Flipping Death on my Switch: 2.8 GB; in my Steam library: 2.9 GB
  • The Little Acre on my Switch: 2.7 GB; in my Steam library: 2.5 GB
  • Syberia 1 + 2 on my Switch: 2.7 GB; in my Steam library: 2.5 GB
  • The Darkside Detective on my Switch: 1.5 GB; in my Steam library: 1.1 GB
  • The Inner World on my Switch: 1.3 GB; in my Steam library: 1.3 GB
  • Thimbleweed Park on my Switch: 1.3 GB; in my Steam library: 1.0 GB
  • Murder by Number on my Switch: 1.1 GB; in my Steam library: 0.9 GB
  • My Brother Rabbit on my Switch: 1.0 GB; in my Steam library: 0.8 GB
  • AER: Memories of Old on my Switch: 1.1 GB; in my Steam library: 1.2 GB
  • The Way on my Switch: 1.0 GB; in my Steam library: 0.4 GB
  • Degrees of Separation on my Switch: 0.8 GB; in my Steam library: 0.4 GB
  • Beat Cop on my Switch: 0.6 GB; in my Steam library: 0.3 GB

Of course there are some PC games, which are a lot bigger than the Switch version... but that's due to higher quality assets (f.e. textures) and that will show in Switch / Steam Deck comparisons.

And a few size comparisons for the lols:

  • Final Fantasy XV on my Switch: 5.3 GB; in my Steam library: 152 GB
  • GTA Vice City on Switch: 13.1 GB; in my Steam library: 1.5 GB

victor83fernandes said:

And the question is who would actually be playing PC games on the train, bus? A shooter with those controls will be of putting, most PC games I'd rather play on my big screen.

There are hundreds of genres for PC... why not play any other genre on the train or bus, if you don't want to play a shooter? And IF you want to play a shooter with a handheld, it will probably be much more comfortable to play on the Steam Deck than on a Switch with JoyCons.

Last edited by Conina - on 08 February 2022

Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 08 February 2022
Mummelmann said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Well I think we all know it's a niche product and I haven't said anything otherwise. Just look at how Valve is selling it vs how Nintendo sells the switch and you can see the difference in their target audience. Nintendo is selling the Switch at every local store they can find. You can buy a Switch at Bestbuy, Walmart, mom and pop shops, etc. The only place you can get a Steam Deck is on the Steam Store. Valve is not selling it anywhere else.

The purpose of the Steam deck isn't to replace your PC. The purpose of the Steam deck is for being able to play PC games on the go for an affordable price. It also lowers the barrier to entry for PC gaming, especially in the current market. Sure you have to lock it to 30fps to achieve 3 hours on a moderately demanding game but how else are you gonna play God of War or Elden Ring on a handheld? On the Switch? Nope. How else are you gonna play Persona 5 on a handheld? On the switch? Nope. How else can you play Xenoblade Chronicles X on a handheld? On the switch? Nope. (Although maybe they will announce that on the direct tomorrow). But the list goes on. You can get a laptop but that's not only much more expensive, but you need a desk or somewhere to put it on. You can upgrade your PC but the Deck isn't aiming to replace your PC in the first place. Not to mention... How long can your PC play games when it's unplugged?

Yea it's not the prettiest thing out there but Valve focused on function over form so they can provide compatibility for 10,000+ games day 1. And the best thing is, if you already have a good library of games on Steam, you don't have to re-buy a single one nor do you have to pay for any online subscription nonsense. It's not gonna appeal to the mass market but Valve already knows that.

The key difference is that a console like the Switch needs to sell a ton of units in order for Nintendo to make money. If say the Switch 2 flops like the wiiU did, Nintendo loses a large chunk of their revenue because developers/publishers won't port games and Nintendo doesn't get their 30% cut. But even if the Steam Deck sells less than a million units, it won't affect Valve's revenue stream because majority of the new games will continue to be ported onto Steam. So Valve may not need to sell Switch numbers to consider the Steam Deck to be a success and I doubt they are thinking switch numbers in the first place.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I know that we both know it's a niche product. But my point still stands; who will actually buy it? It's a still a pricey bit of kit, and people who have more than a passing interest in PC gaming are likely to either get a laptop or a desktop. For those who don't even have a passing interest, there will be consoles and even phones instead. Consoles have been imitating the PC for at least two generations now, and it made sense, but the inverse really doesn't, given what the PC is in the gaming space and has been for a long time. 

To me it just screams product without an actual demographic, Valve tried before with the Steam Machine series. They started at about the same price, I think they ended up selling less than 500k units worldwide. Granted, a portable form may be somewhat more enticing, but we have both the Switch and some actual, passable mobile games available as well today. I think that it's too nerdy, and frankly, too expensive, to entice more casual consumers, and it's too limiting in its form-factor and potential for more PC enthusiasts such as myself. It kind of reminds me of when developers and publishers started watering down the mechanics of Strategy games and RPGs and losing customer on both ends for being both too complex and too simple all at once.

And we haven't even mentioned the storage issue, these won't be taking physical discs of any kind so internal storage will fill up incredibly fast. The 64GB model is a joke, modern games are often huge, and buying extra storage in the form of SD cards or other solutions is an extra expense for the consumer. Even the 256GB model will be having issues with storage with more than 3-4 modern titles installed. Heck; the only difference between the models seems to be the size of the drive, which reeks of Apple to me.

No, I stand by my point that this will likely be a dud.

As always though; I could be wrong. I like it when Valve succeed in their ventures, and they could use a boost right about now.

I think plenty of people will buy it relatively speaking. We had a leak during the initial pre-order period before it got fixed so we have somewhat of an idea. With in the first 90 minutes, the Steam Deck pre-orders count was at 110,000 units across it's limited number of launch regions. This is also when they had certain restrictions in place where you needed to meet certain requirements before you can place your order.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/07/html-holes-provide-a-glimpse-of-steam-decks-initial-preorder-numbers/

So I do think there is an audience for such a device. There is a big difference between the way Valve approached Steam Machines vs how they are approaching Steam Deck. Steam Machines was Valve not getting much involvement in Steam Machines themselves and letting third party companies do whatever they want. What ended up happening was many of the third party companies ended up releasing desktops that were much more expensive with the Steam machine badge than if you were to buy a similarly priced prebuilt or to build it yourself. With the Steam Deck, Valve is entering into a space that hasn't been previously explored by a large company. Not only that, they are subsidizing it. There's also a lot more differences but this would be like saying Nintendo can't make a successful product because they made the wiiU. Valve made the Index headset which was a success so it's not like they only make flops.

We have seen that there isn't much difference in running a game on a Microsd vs SSD. 64GB isn't much as base storage but I doubt Valve wants to have a PS3 situation where they are losing a ton of money on each unit. They are putting a lot of expensive parts into the Steam Deck already so I think the prices makes sense. Plus a 256GB Microsd is only like $30 so if you are willing to spend $400 on this in the first place, adding in $30 extra dollars for 256GB or $50 for 512GB of storage isn't much. Especially since you won't need to pay for online or need to rebuy games. And yes, modern games are pretty big but it comes back to, how else you gonna play them on a handheld? Spend twice the amount for an Aya Neo?

We can keep going in circles but there's a reason why small companies like GPD Win and Aya Neo are able to bring out continuous revisions to their PC handhelds and continues to get funding each year. I don't think there's that much point in speculating whether or not there's an audience because imo, the reality is we don't know. PC gaming handhelds are an unproven space because we didn't have the tech and we didn't have any companies that was willing on a relatively large scale. Maybe it will only sell that 110,000 units (unlikely because of the queue availability) or maybe it will sell millions. But I do think there are plenty of reasons to like it and too many people are focusing on it's negatives to see what it really brings to the table.

Last edited by Jizz_Beard_thePirate - on 08 February 2022

                  

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Conina on 08 February 2022
Mummelmann said:

And we haven't even mentioned the storage issue, these won't be taking physical discs of any kind so internal storage will fill up incredibly fast. The 64GB model is a joke, modern games are often huge, and buying extra storage in the form of SD cards or other solutions is an extra expense for the consumer.

microSD cards are pretty cheap these days, less than 10 cents per GB... f.e. 400 GB for less than €40, 512 GB for less than €50.

And the games seem to load faster from a microSD on Steam deck than the same games from HDD on PS4/Pro or Xbox One/S/X.

You can even hotswap microSD cards on the Steam Deck, so you don't have to reboot the device like on Switch.

Also there are many great games that should run fine on Steam Deck which are a lot smaller than 10 GB.



Mummelmann on 08 February 2022
Conina said:
Mummelmann said:

And we haven't even mentioned the storage issue, these won't be taking physical discs of any kind so internal storage will fill up incredibly fast. The 64GB model is a joke, modern games are often huge, and buying extra storage in the form of SD cards or other solutions is an extra expense for the consumer.

microSD cards are pretty cheap these days, less than 10 cents per GB... f.e. 400 GB for less than €40, 512 GB for less than €50.

And the games seem to load faster from a microSD on Steam deck than the same games from HDD on PS4/Pro or Xbox One/S/X.

You can even hotswap microSD cards on the Steam Deck, so you don't have to reboot the device like on Switch.

Also there are many great games that should run fine on Steam Deck which are a lot smaller than 10 GB.

Absolutely, SD card are quite cheap compared to 3-5 years ago, but it's still an added cost put on the consumer. And, seeing as storage has gotten cheaper; what exactly is the price incentive for the two top tier models whose only advantage seem to be more storage (and longer battery life due to more efficient storage)? Why the big hike in price? Charging 250$ more for a machine which only increases storage and has longer battery life, that's quite the increase, and as I said it reminds me of Apple pricing (iPad is notorious for price hiking only for more storage). Yes, they are faster storage units, but how much does 4000Mbit speed matter on simple games? With the native resolutions being as low as they are and frame rates needing capping to not kill the batteries, how will this ever be utilized properly even in more advanced games?

As for smaller games functioning well on the Steam Deck; that's also a fair point, but that leads us straight into "why not get a decent laptop instead?". Simpler and smaller games run fine on most modern laptops, which also come with more storage and functionality out of the box. Especially when approaching the 500-650$ range in price.

Once more; I could very well be wrong, it won't be the first time. But from my understanding of the PC market, Steam as a service and the overall direction and sheer breadth of the industry already, I just cannot see a demographic for the Steam Deck. I'm not one to make poor comparisons, but I remember that Stadia was also sold specifically on promises of ease of use and lower cost.

PS: As Captain_Yuri mentioned, it's all mostly speculation right now, only the market will show what's what, and that's fine by me.



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Chazore on 08 February 2022
DonFerrari said:

Seems like just as the desktops Valve failed again in designing HW.

Valve didn't design the Steam machines, that job was handed over to Vendors.

That thumbnail you keep seeing of Valve's actual Steam machine?, that was one model, all the others were built and sold by the likes of Alienware, all by each vendors own design and price tag.

Steam machines failed because Valve was mostly hands off each design and price tag, with the exception of having Steam OS on each machine. The vendors were the ones that really screwed it up, because you had builds that were more expensive, but with lesser perf and at that time Valve wasn't pushing their OS hard enough.

This time they've been optimising and improving their OS for their very own custom designed hw, using their store, their OS, their HW, not hw handled by Alienware and sold for £2000 or higher.

Not everything has to copy the Switch in design. I personally hate how tiny Switch's thumbsticks are, and their own placement has always felt off to me (Joycon drift is another huge issue for me, which forces me to play the device in TV mode exclusively these days). 



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Chazore on 08 February 2022
Mummelmann said:

Ah, yes, 30 fps, another favorite from the PC gaming segment! So; small yet bulky, small screen, controls with seemingly very few options for customization, much flatter sound than any decent desktop or gaming laptop, and now even 30 fps to get OVER 3 HOURS of battery time! I can't see any reason why this won't fly off the shelves, especially right now with hardware components being readily available for new and existing products alike.

I would dare any PC gamer to spend the 400-650$ to upgrade their rigs instead, it's not even an option as I see it.

Bit weird Mumm, to see you say that, especially since we're still seeing games capped at 60fps on PC, and I hate being capped to just 60fps, but if that's going to be accepted by the non Gsync/Freesync users, why not also the 30fps cap?.

Also you know the current GPU crisis is still going on?. The most I can get out of that upgrade money is possibly a new CPU and maybe then some RAM, if I'm skimping on a CPU upgrade I can maybe get a new SSD/M.2?. 



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theRepublic on 08 February 2022

I never noticed before, but the button placement looks awful. No way that is comfortable over a long period of time.



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DonFerrari on 08 February 2022
Chazore said:
DonFerrari said:

Seems like just as the desktops Valve failed again in designing HW.

Valve didn't design the Steam machines, that job was handed over to Vendors.

That thumbnail you keep seeing of Valve's actual Steam machine?, that was one model, all the others were built and sold by the likes of Alienware, all by each vendors own design and price tag.

Steam machines failed because Valve was mostly hands off each design and price tag, with the exception of having Steam OS on each machine. The vendors were the ones that really screwed it up, because you had builds that were more expensive, but with lesser perf and at that time Valve wasn't pushing their OS hard enough.

This time they've been optimising and improving their OS for their very own custom designed hw, using their store, their OS, their HW, not hw handled by Alienware and sold for £2000 or higher.

Not everything has to copy the Switch in design. I personally hate how tiny Switch's thumbsticks are, and their own placement has always felt off to me (Joycon drift is another huge issue for me, which forces me to play the device in TV mode exclusively these days). 

And what Valve expertise do you expect on Steam Deck with their zero success? And fault on Steam Machines falls entirely on Steam that wasn´t able to even provide good guidelines when certifying the machines. If any console were bad due to the platform holders allowing vendors to freely decide the specs of components sold to them to assembly wouldn´t you blame them?



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Chazore on 08 February 2022
DonFerrari said:

And what Valve expertise do you expect on Steam Deck with their zero success? And fault on Steam Machines falls entirely on Steam that wasn´t able to even provide good guidelines when certifying the machines. If any console were bad due to the platform holders allowing vendors to freely decide the specs of components sold to them to assembly wouldn´t you blame them?

Well for starters they've been making leaps with their OS, instead of just sitting there and letting it rot in the corner. For another they've obviously worked from prototype stage of the Deck to it's final release, as well as 3 variation models, so that tells me they are dedicated to selling their product. The first batch are also completely sold out as well.

They and devs are also working together to optimise games for their OS, so that also shows that both parties are working together to make it happen. So far reception towards the device seems rather positive, and that alone tells me that it's going to appeal to those that have already bought it/ people like me who are wanting to buy one in the future. 

The fault of Steam machines isn't on Valve, it was on the vendors for going batshit crazy with their parts. The main part of the SM's was the OS, the HW was supplied by each vendor that made their own Steam machine. Saying Alienware isn't responsible for it's own Steam machine is a bit absurd, considering they have a known track record of shoving in all kinds of parts and charging you out the ass, why would their Steam machine be any different?.

Yuri put it best when he mentioned Nintendo, and Nintendo got bit when they shoved out the Wii U and we all know how that went, that was on them for making a console so underpowered and gimmicky, that not many 3rd parties wanted to port to it.

The Deck however is another handheld device that is already supported from the get-go, thanks to it's Linux distro and on top of that, Valve/devs working together to optimise it further, gaining more perf per game.

Steam machines also weren't really as much as a console as you'd think. They were SFF's.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"