By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Jim Ryan Wants to Expand PS Outside Console Market, Future Bungie Games to Release on Rival Consoles

the-pi-guy said:
faustian.empire said:

So were most of the MS studios acquisitions. Before Activision, the most notable ones were Bethesda Studios, Id software, Zenimax Online and Obsidian. And at the time of those acquisitions, MS didn't have that many studios. 

Yes i know studios MS bought before Bethesda and Activision were all low key but i am not not talking about them and not worried about them but Bethesda and Activision is what i'm worried about

Insomniac wasn't one of the 5 studios. Bluepoint (who just made Demon's Souls), Housemarque (Returnal), Firesprite (who has 4 development teams), Valkyrie Entertainment (who helped with God of War), Nixxes (mostly a support studio). 

all low key,only good one was that made demon souls

The big distinction with SIE, is that they have a lot of faith in their ability to make new IP. They haven't seen the need to buy a studio that has a lot of IP.  SIE cares more about talent. 

I know,they have been very successful at creating new IP from ground but it was only possible because of the hard lessons they learnt because of the bad PS3 generation.That ignited the fire to build all these new IP's.

But the fire can only last so long an it seems to be near dwindling.

The big reason why MS is spending tens of billions, is largely because they're going after large IPs. Sony is going after talent, because they are confident they can make new large IPs. Last gen they made Horizon, Ghost of Tsushima. They capitalized on The Last of Us, God of War massively last gen.  

Talent only has so many creative juices.Talent can't forever make new things.It has a limit.

You see so many singers,directors,artists - there first album is BIG,second is Bigger but then it just wanes.

They are. It takes time for these kinds of things to happen. Activision took multiple months. Bungie took ~6 or so months to happen.

Yeah i agree,i know they have something up their sleeve.They aren't going to let Microsoft eat their lunch so easily.

But the answer is not just talented small developers(they are part of the answer but not the whole answer)

I reckon they will do something similar to Microsoft's Activision deal,they will either go for EA or Take Two(Rockstar). Remember 2 years ago there was a rumor that Sony was gonna acquire Rockstar & Take Two.

One of them will happen for sure.

Sony is doing fine. 

Right now yes.I agree completely

But my focus isn't right now but 3-10years down the line.

You seem to be very good at analyzing the present but seem to lack the visionary foresight that is needed to prepare and build the future.

>Yes i know studios MS bought before Bethesda and Activision were all low key but i am not not talking about them and not worried about them but Bethesda and Activision is what i'm worried about

My examples should have made it clear I was including Zenimax, when I was talking about the studio acquisitions being low key. Most people don't care about Roundhouse Studios, Alpha Dog Games MachineGames.  

Like I said the most notable studios they acquired were Bethesda Game Studios, ID and Zenimax Online. 

Frankly the Zenimax acquisition, arguably put MS's studios on par with Sony's. They didn't need to do anything to compete. 

MS hasn't acquired Activision yet. 

>all low key,only good one was that made demon souls

Doesn't matter if a studio is low key. What matters is what kind of content they make, and whether the games can sell.  

>But the fire can only last so long an it seems to be near dwindling.

>Talent only has so many creative juices.Talent can't forever make new things.It has a limit.

These are just platitudes, not facts. 

My examples should have made it clear I was including Zenimax, when I was talking about the studio acquisitions being low key. Most people don't care about Roundhouse Studios, Alpha Dog Games MachineGames.  

Like I said the most notable studios they acquired were Bethesda Game Studios, ID and Zenimax Online. 

Frankly the Zenimax acquisition, arguably put MS's studios on par with Sony's. They didn't need to do anything to compete. 

I agreed with you,why are you debating this

Doesn't matter if a studio is low key. What matters is what kind of content they make, and whether the games can sell.  

Oh so MS buys low key and it doesn't matter but SONY buys low key an they will do wonders with it............lol

These are just platitudes, not facts. 

do you have any experience in life or not? - can't you understand analogy about the way life works.

nobody has unlimited talent



Around the Network
Azzanation said:
faustian.empire said:

no,Apple acquiring SONY would nullify everything Microsoft has done.

Apple and Microsoft are not equal in cash,Apple paid out some dividends and had some Share Buybacks,that's why Apple's Cash is down.Apple can regain all that advantage by 1 years Profits easily.Apple's Market Cap is also higher than Microsoft.

Yes Apple would be more interested in PlayStation division of SONY but if any Sale happens,it will be SONY as a whole as PS division is the biggest contributor to SONY's profits.And Apple would gain Sony Pictures to bolster Apple TV+ and also Hardware & Camera Expertise.

Its not my opinion Microsoft is bad at managing studios.The results have shown exactly that so its more of a proven historical fact.

Halo once used to be the biggest FPS in gaming far ahead of Call of duty,Battlefield,etc but Microsoft Milked it to death during the X360 era and it struggles to even sell good now.

Gears was a big franchise during X360 era but they ran that too in the ground.

Fable was also used to be successful

they acquired so many studios in the last few years but till now Not a single game has come out that could Challenge the God of War's,the Ghost of Tsushima's, the Horizon's,the Last of Us's,the Spiderman's,etc

How does Apple buying Sony nullify what MS has done?

It doesn't matter who has more money between MS and Apple because both companies have enough resources to buy whoever they want.

Bad at managing studios is your opinion. All companies have had inhouse issues, even Sony.

Halo's success was also made by MS. Any long series like Halo go through periods of decline. 

Gears is still a very strong franchise and if anything has grown as a series. Also rumored that the Coalition might be making a new IP.

Fable was a one/two hit series. It fell apart after 2. Blame Lionhead.

How are those Sony IPs you mention cannot be matched by Xbox's own? Maybe look up Xbox's games before making those claims. Halo alone is bigger than half the games mentioned in your list.

How does Apple buying Sony nullify what MS has done?

if you understand anything about business or strategy then you will understand

MS is already behind SONY in gaming,the purchase of Activision and Bethesda bring them equal to SONY

but if Apple Buys SONY then SONY will gain strength where they lack aka Cash

It doesn't matter who has more money between MS and Apple because both companies have enough resources to buy whoever they want.

That way SONY also has enough resources but SONY couldn't have bought Activision

Bad at managing studios is your opinion. All companies have had inhouse issues, even Sony.

how is it an opinion when sales prove it to be true.

SONY has ha very less inhouse issues,they without alot of investment have turned less known studios to the top of the gaming industry

Halo's success was also made by MS. Any long series like Halo go through periods of decline. 

Gran Turismo,God of War,Uncharted have not gone through decline but have maintained sales or have grown

even PlayStation oriented games like Final Fantasy and Metal Gear have maintained their sales

Gears is still a very strong franchise and if anything has grown as a series. Also rumored that the Coalition might be making a new IP.

It was one of the biggest IP's in the 360-PS3 era,it is a shadow of its former self

How are those Sony IPs you mention cannot be matched by Xbox's own? Maybe look up Xbox's games before making those claims. Halo alone is bigger than half the games mentioned in your list.

Halo is bigger than God of War,Last of Us,Horizon,Gran Turismo,Spiderman,Ghost of Tsushima,etc?

Without Game Pass,it would struggle to sell even 8-10million units and it is the only Microsoft Game to even come close to that number.



the-pi-guy said:

I mostly agree with you, except for this bit: 

>Halo alone is bigger than half the games mentioned in your list.

Horizon, The Last of Us, God of War, Spiderman are all close to 20 million copy sellers. 

Halo isn't quite as big as it once was, although it will be harder to compare in the future as sales don't correlate with Gamepass users.

Historically I would say MS wasn't great at managing their studios, quality wise.  But I think they've turned it around massively in the past 5 years, and their studios are doing a lot better. 

This is the thing where people need to research more than just basing popularity off game sales. Game sales have many avenues other than customers going out buying games. Take into account system bundles, console user base size, game discounts etc. 

Comparing games that Sony also heavily bundled with the PS4 which has sold more than double the X1 consoles is going to lead to more software sales overall especially when people are buying PS4's like crazy and are given games like Uncharted and GOW and Horizon for free. The PS4 sales actually help boost game sales by default. When the X1 isn't selling anywhere near as much as the PS4, a game cannot compete in the same space. Their is a big handicap favoring PS. I had a friend who picked up the Uncharted PS4 bundle only because it was the cheapest console bundle during Xmas period, he actually traded back UC4 however that still counted as a UC4 sale. These events happen all the time. Xbox also bundle their games however due to the low console sales, it isn't going to compare in the same manner. 

Lets look at something on a more equal playing field.

Steam Launch concurrent users

Halo Infinite: Peak 270k concurrent users

God of War: Peak 73k concurrent users

Horizon ZD: Peak 53k concurrent users

Now to say Halo isn't as popular to the games above is a massive downplay. Whats insane is people actually think that comparing these Sony titles on the PS4 which has sold over 115m consoles to Xbox titles which sold on a console that sold under 50m systems and claiming those games are more popular is nothing but an uneducated assumption. Based off Steam which has access to both companies titles, the results seem rather different, as proven above.

The 360 vs PS3 era also proves my point as both systems were on par with each other in terms of system user base, and Halo 3 outsold 6 PS3 1st party exclusives combined. As quoted from a article below

MS: Halo 3 outsold six PS3 titles combined • Eurogamer.net

"Just in from research team (NPD): Halo 3 has outsold Resistance 1 + 2, Uncharted 1 + 2, Killzone 2 and God of War III combined.... wow" 

When Xbox is playing on the same playing field as Playstation, its a different ball game. People underestimate the popularity of titles on this site because they only focus on one thing. Mario 3D World sold under 6m copies on the WiiU, i guess Mario isn't as popular anymore based on their logic. Software sales need a strong user base to sell well, that doesn't mean the software isn't popular, it just means the software cannot sell due to industry handicaps.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 20 February 2022

the-pi-guy said:

>Lets look at something on a more equal playing field. Steam Launch concurrent users

So you're comparing the concurrent users of a game that has been on PC with a multiplayer mode, with single player titles that don't have a PC fan base.  

This is not the equal playing field you claim it to be.  The top of the list is dominated by multiplayer games. 

>he actually traded back UC4 however that still counted as a UC4 sale.

I've never considered bundles an issue with counting their sales. They trade it in, someone else buys it second hand, instead of potentially buying it new.  

That UC4 would not count towards the official figures. It effectively ends up being a wash. Not that bundles don't boost sales, but it's a complicated thing. Just because someone buys a bundled game, doesn't mean they wouldn't have bought it standalone in the first place.  None of these games had even 10 million bundles sold.  

>The 360 vs PS3 era also proves my point as both systems were on par with each other in terms of system user base, and Halo 3 outsold 6 PS3 1st party exclusives combined. As quoted from a article below

The popularity of these games have changed enormously. Uncharted 4 sold in the first week what either Uncharted 1 or Uncharted 2 sold over several years. 

Halo outsold almost every PlayStation franchise with 1/6th the user base during the PS2 era. With the exception being Gran Turismo. The market isn't the same anymore. Sony has several franchises that are sell more than GT. 

Forza has seemingly become a bigger franchise than Halo.

https://www.techspot.com/news/92161-forza-horizon-5-had-biggest-launch-xbox-game.html

Steam concurrent shows how popular Halo actually is compared to other games. If its not as big as these other games, why is its user base so much higher? They share the same user base on Steam. Its not just the concurrent users that show this. Halo itself was a massive hit on Steam. Plenty of articles will show this. 

What bases are you basing these other IPs to be bigger? Because they sold better on consoles when one console sold over 115m units compared to one selling under 50m units.. that doesn't sound like a fair comparison. Huge difference in user base.

I used Mario 3D World on the WiiU selling under 6m as the perfect example. Does that mean all these Sony titles are bigger IPs than Mario due to the low sales on the WiiU?

You don't see the problem with bundled games? People flock to buy the consoles and normally take the best deals. There would be plenty of people who brought a PS4 with no interests with the bundled games yet end up having it anyway. Those that wanted a PS4 for COD or Fifa ended up with a Sony 1st party title. The PS4 was selling like hot cakes, you could bundle any game with the PS4 and watch it do amazing. Drive Club went on to sell 2m copies in the PS4's early life due to its heavy bundle with the PS4 and that game tanked.

Halo is a monster IP, its in another league when it comes to IP size. Just because Halo 5 sold only 5m copies on the X1 does not mean the IP has shrank. Halo Infinite comes out and its the highest selling game on Steam at the time with an insane 270k concurrent users at launch. That says enough. Mean while GOW managed 70k at launch, not exactly bringing in the same amount of people. 

Last edited by Azzanation - on 20 February 2022

the-pi-guy said:

>Steam concurrent shows how popular Halo actually is compared to other games. If its not as big as these other games, why is its user base so much higher? 

1.) Different platforms have different fanbases. For example Dark Souls is a much bigger IP on PC than it is on PlayStation/Xbox, while Horizon is a much bigger IP on PlayStation. Overall, Horizon is probably a slightly bigger IP, but if you were comparing the two on PC, you would get the opposite impression.  You need both sets of data to make a comparison.  Halo already has a fanbase on PC. They launched the Halo MCC. God of War on the other hand is one of the first PS games on PC, getting ported 4 years after it originally launched. 

2.) Multiplayer games get boosted. It's problematic to compare concurrent player count for multiplayer games and single player games.

>I used Mario 3D World on the WiiU selling under 6m as the perfect example. Does that mean all these Sony titles are bigger IPs than Mario due to the low sales on the WiiU?

Different Mario franchises sell more or less.  Mario Kart is a much bigger franchise than the 3D Mario games.  Super Mario Odyssey has only sold about 23 million on the Switch. It's a bigger franchise than God of War. Mario Kart on the other hand, is clearly a much bigger franchise.  

>Because they sold better on consoles when one console sold over 115m units compared to one selling under 50m units.. that doesn't sound like a fair comparison. Huge difference in user base.

It's difficult to use user base as a basis for how to adjust sales. 

>Activision's shooter primarily sold on PlayStation platforms, with PS5 accounting for 41% of sales, PS4 29%, Xbox One 19% and Xbox Series X and S 11%.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2021-11-09-call-of-duty-is-no-1-but-physical-sales-continue-to-slow-uk-boxed-charts#:~:text=Activision's%20shooter%20primarily%20sold%20on,Series%20X%20and%20S%2011%25.

Despite having a much, much, much smaller user base, the PS5 outsold the PS4. The first 10 million are more likely to buy a game than the 100 million - 110 million range. User base definitely sets a soft limit for sales. But selling 10 million on a platform that has sold 50 million is not wildly different from selling 10 million on a platform that has sold 100 million. 

>Drive Club went on to sell 2m copies in the PS4's early life due to its heavy bundle with the PS4 and that game tanked.

Driveclub ended up being a great game. 

But don't get me wrong, bundles help sales. But none of these games were bundled so heavily to take a 5m selling game and make it into a 20m selling game. 

>Just because Halo 5 sold only 5m copies on the X1 does not mean the IP has shrank. 

Halo 2 sold 8m on a platform with half as many sales.  

Tell me, why do you think Horizon, GoW and Ghost of Tsushima are bigger IPs than Halo? Because they sold more copies than Halo 5? You understand Halo is a multi billion dollar IP right? Halo has generated over $10 billion USD in revenue.

Halo franchise generates $ 10 billion in revenue - iGamesNews

Lets keep this in perspective.

GoW made $500m in revenue

Horizon ZD made $400m in revenue

The lowest selling mainline Halo game (Halo 5) generated $500m in revenue in its first week!

Its not even a comparison. But i am interested in your thoughts as to why you think these IPs are bigger than Halo.



Around the Network
twintail said:
faustian.empire said:

Sony has not made anywhere near the acquisition that Microsoft has with Bethesda and Actiivsion

...

Similarly after the hugely successful PS4 generation,SONY isn't doing the same amount of work today to secure PS5's future and PS6.

I said interesting and beneficial; size is irrelevant to that.

And honestly, your last comment reads like you aren't even following what Sony is doing. Not doing the same amount? Yeah, ok...

i've been following what Sony's doing since 2005,been through the bad PS3 generation and the good PS4 generation.

I am more interested in long term vision and strategy not short term gain



the-pi-guy said:
faustian.empire said:

My examples should have made it clear I was including Zenimax, when I was talking about the studio acquisitions being low key. Most people don't care about Roundhouse Studios, Alpha Dog Games MachineGames.  

Like I said the most notable studios they acquired were Bethesda Game Studios, ID and Zenimax Online. 

Frankly the Zenimax acquisition, arguably put MS's studios on par with Sony's. They didn't need to do anything to compete. 

I agreed with you,why are you debating this

Doesn't matter if a studio is low key. What matters is what kind of content they make, and whether the games can sell.  

Oh so MS buys low key and it doesn't matter but SONY buys low key an they will do wonders with it............lol

These are just platitudes, not facts. 

do you have any experience in life or not? - can't you understand analogy about the way life works.

nobody has unlimited talent

>Oh so MS buys low key and it doesn't matter but SONY buys low key an they will do wonders with it.

I'm not sure where you're getting this impression that it matters less. 

 

>do you have any experience in life or not? - can't you understand analogy about the way life works nobody has unlimited talent

Talent is not some kind of limited resource. It doesn't get used up when a game is launched.  

A songwriter that doesn't do as well with their second album did not lose talent. 

Talent is not some kind of limited resource. It doesn't get used up when a game is launched.

A songwriter that doesn't do as well with their second album did not lose talent.

the talent isn't gone but used so the returns are lower and lower.

and TALENT is a limited resource,don't you understand anything about the world? - if everybody ha talent then everybody would be successful but they are not



the-pi-guy said:
faustian.empire said:

Talent is not some kind of limited resource. It doesn't get used up when a game is launched.

A songwriter that doesn't do as well with their second album did not lose talent.

the talent isn't gone but used so the returns are lower and lower.

and TALENT is a limited resource,don't you understand anything about the world? - if everybody ha talent then everybody would be successful but they are not

You're overly inflating success and talent.  Talent can lead to success, but plenty of people are successful without talent and plenty of talented people are not successful. 

>if everybody ha talent then everybody would be successful but they are not

1.) You're incorrectly assuming that talent necessarily leads to success. Which it doesn't. Luck is an important factor. 

2.) You're seemingly incorrectly assuming that all talent is equally valuable, which it isn't. Someone can be talented, but not be valuable. 

3.) Saying that talent doesn't run out, is not the same as everyone having talent. The former is about a single individual. The latter is about all people, which clearly doesn't hold.  

You have a misunderstanding of what TALENT is.TALENT isn't some magical thing which one has.People have different natural abilities aka Talents but they can be molded into the direction which leads their abilities to shine.

Talents aren't rigid,with enough work they can be used to produce success even in non related fields but work is required for that.

And in your definition,the gaming industry is HUGE but only 1 developer ROCKSTAR produces games anywhere near as big as Grand Theft Auto.If Talent was unlimited then everybody would sell like GTA games.

LUCK is a word in the dictionary of Losers who always say the other person got successful cause they were lucky hiding their own shortcomings



the-pi-guy said:
faustian.empire said:

And in your definition,the gaming industry is HUGE but only 1 developer ROCKSTAR produces games anywhere near as big as Grand Theft Auto.If Talent was unlimited then everybody would sell like GTA games.

Your reading comprehension needs some work bud. You are conflating an individual with a group.

I am not saying that there are infinite talented people out there.

I am saying people don't lose their talents when they use it. 

By your definition Rockstar must suck now because they've used up all their talent making GTA.

faustian.empire said:

LUCK is a word in the dictionary of Losers who always say the other person got successful cause they were lucky hiding their own shortcomings

Of course this is what you think. Because you don't understand how math works, how the world works.

Your reading comprehension needs some work bud. You are conflating an individual with a group.

what is true for an individual is true for the group of the similar individuals

I am not saying that there are infinite talented people out there.

I am saying people don't lose their talents when they use it. 

i know,what i was saying is that the output of talents reduces after they keep using it.

By your definition Rockstar must suck now because they've used up all their talent making GTA.

yes they suck at making multiple games like they used to in the PS2 generation.they now focus all their power to just make 1 game per generation.

Of course this is what you think. Because you don't understand how math works, how the world works.

Math has no luck,everything fits exactly.What is sow is what you reap not some magical out of this world intervention.



the-pi-guy said:
faustian.empire said:

Your reading comprehension needs some work bud. You are conflating an individual with a group.

what is true for an individual is true for the group of the similar individuals

I am not saying that there are infinite talented people out there.

I am saying people don't lose their talents when they use it. 

i know,what i was saying is that the output of talents reduces after they keep using it.

By your definition Rockstar must suck now because they've used up all their talent making GTA.

yes they suck at making multiple games like they used to in the PS2 generation.they now focus all their power to just make 1 game per generation.

Of course this is what you think. Because you don't understand how math works, how the world works.

Math has no luck,everything fits exactly.What is sow is what you reap not some magical out of this world intervention.

>Math has no luck,everything fits exactly.What is sow is what you reap not some magical out of this world intervention.

Luck has nothing to do with magic.  It's just probability, which is math. Luck is just getting a favorable outcome even though it is unlikely. 

You don't pick your parents or your genetics. You don't get to choose what deficiencies you are born with or without.

Being born to Bill Gates isn't magic, but it's an outcome that is luckier than 99.9999% of the population. It's not a skill or a choice.  It's an outcome that had nothing to do with you.  That is what luck is.  

Luck has nothing to do with magic.  It's just probability, which is math. Luck is just getting a favorable outcome even though it is unlikely.

Luck isn't a probability.Luck is when you were not supposed to win but still win because of some unforeseen circumstance

You don't pick your parents or your genetics. You don't get to choose what deficiencies you are born with or without.

Being born to Bill Gates isn't magic, but it's an outcome that is luckier than 99.9999% of the population. It's not a skill or a choice.  It's an outcome that had nothing to do with you.  That is what luck is.  

In Eastern Religions an Philosophies,Your Birth is dependent on your actions in your past life.

Even in Abrahamic Religions- Christianity,Islam,Judaism - The Religious texts talk about Reincarnation.

It was just that, Early Christian Theologians removed reincarnation from Christian Religious doctrine cause they thought if people knew there would be another life,then they would not stop committing Sins in this life thinking of paying the price(debt,consequence) in the next life.

Read the Bible fully,even it talks about reincarnation.