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Forums - Sales Discussion - How Series S could be last place in the US, Europe, and Japan, but first-place globally

jason1637 said:
src said:

Furthermore, a digital only console is DEAD in these countries where internet infrastructure is not reliable, costly and in some cases not even built out.

Whats the difference between buying a physical copy of a game and having a 60gb install versus downloading the same 60gb install without the disk?

Installing is disc to SSD/HDD. No internet connection is used. No data cap or charge.



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src said:
jason1637 said:

Whats the difference between buying a physical copy of a game and having a 60gb install versus downloading the same 60gb install without the disk?

Installing is disc to SSD/HDD. No internet connection is used. No data cap or charge.

Most games the data isn't on the disc anymore. You have to connect to the internet to install a 60gb update which is essentially the same thing if you just bought the game from the digital marketplace. Rare for games to have most of the data on the disc nowadys.



jason1637 said:
src said:

Installing is disc to SSD/HDD. No internet connection is used. No data cap or charge.

Most games the data isn't on the disc anymore. You have to connect to the internet to install a 60gb update which is essentially the same thing if you just bought the game from the digital marketplace. Rare for games to have most of the data on the disc nowadys.

This is incredibly wrong.

Game data is on disc, which is why install does not require internet connection. Only patches do.



src said:
jason1637 said:

Most games the data isn't on the disc anymore. You have to connect to the internet to install a 60gb update which is essentially the same thing if you just bought the game from the digital marketplace. Rare for games to have most of the data on the disc nowadys.

This is incredibly wrong.

Game data is on disc, which is why install does not require internet connection. Only patches do.

Most games have very little or none of the data on discs. These day one patches are the majority of the game.



VAMatt said:

The problem I see with this analysis is that while the OP correctly points out that we often view these things from a Western perspective and that clouds our judgment, it makes a similar mistake of viewing things through a lens of hardware ownership.

You know what takes up less space than a Series S? The cell phone or laptop that you already own. You know what cost less than a series S? Buying nothing but a controller. And it appears to me that that's what Microsoft is banking on taking hold in the developing world. They are working on cloud gaming. They've done it in a much more intelligent way than Google, in that they have started it as a secondary option for people that are already in the Xbox ecosystem. But, it is very clear that streaming is coming on, and Microsoft is at the forefront of that.  I imagine over the next five years there will be a lot of people subscribed to Gamepass that do not own an Xbox or a gaming rig.

So, while I won't say there's zero chance that the Series S ends up as the best selling console, I will say that I don't think Microsoft is trying to make that happen. They're trying to make XCloud the most popular way to play games, thereby eliminating the need for dedicated gaming hardware (beyond a controller).

Further, since Nintendo and Sony both still seem to be focused on selling hardware, it seems unlikely that Microsoft would beat them in that game. They're not even playing that game.  

Yeah, I can't find stock for an Xbox or a Playstation. But what do I have? A PC.

So I have been playing Halo Infinite and other MS games without an Xbox. At this point I don't really need one.



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jason1637 said:
src said:

This is incredibly wrong.

Game data is on disc, which is why install does not require internet connection. Only patches do.

Most games have very little or none of the data on discs. These day one patches are the majority of the game.

Delusional. Humour us and prove it then



src said:
jason1637 said:

Most games have very little or none of the data on discs. These day one patches are the majority of the game.

Delusional. Humour us and prove it then

Okay. So I have a physical copy of Far Cry 6 for Xbox. I deleted the game and put it back into my Xbox. Here is what I was treated with.

Then I proceeded to upgrade it. And see this.

As you can see from the image 575 MB of the game came from the disc while as 85 GB is downloading from my internet connection.

It's not only a Ubisoft thing.

Halo Infinite disc doesn't include the game.

CoD Vanguard cant be played without a a big patch

https://support.activision.com/content/atvi/support/web/en/vanguard/articles/vanguard-installation-and-setup.html

These are 3 of the biggest games of the year. Unfortnutaley I don't have any other physical games besides Far Cry ( I got rid of all my physical games last year) so I cant test it with other games but the last physical game I remember not having to downloading a huge update to play was Evolve and that game came out early last gen.

Last edited by trasharmdsister12 - on 24 December 2021

DonFerrari said:

Could but most likely won`t.

Talking about piracy, with multiplayer that isn`t as common anymore in Brazil, plenty of legitimate stores now. Also not to disappoint you, but houses here are quite big, probably bigger than most average europe and japanese houses, and well most of the piracy occurs in the developed world, where were the pirated chips made, the p2p sites hosted the programs made, etc?

I would say perhaps you have a very strong bias view based on your own life experiences.

PS: Not to take a potshot at you, but your line of thought is very similar to the one of the MS executives saying Xbox One could sell 1 Billion units. https://www.vg247.com/xbox-one-microsoft-aims-for-1-billion-lifetime-sales-100-million-xbox-360-units

It isn't just because you are going to a place with more population that you'll really sell there. Consoles have been selling on China over 1 Billion population but sales number are smaller than in Japan if I do remember it right.

I did not suggest homes were small in Brazil, and I actually happen to know that they're not (I had a friend who spent a fair bit of time there).  Here's what I said:

"The Series X, and especially the PS5, being larger is a bad thing in emerging markets where living spaces are often more compact."

I was speaking to the emerging markets where living spaces are often more compact, rather than all emerging markets in general.  I was largely thinking of Asia when I said that, though you'll find some smaller residences (or larger residences with lots of people living in them) in all sorts of places, including some in the developed world.

China is a special case because console availability there is not as simple/broad as it would be in freer/less regulated countries such as India and Brazil (far from un-regulated, and with steep import fees in the case of Brazil, but still less regulated than China).

As for piracy, most of the software piracy is on the PC side of things in developed nations.  Not sure about emerging markets.  There was a thriving business being done in mod chips and bootleg games for consoles for a while in southeast Asia, and that happened in the developed world too but seemingly less so due to more law enforcement activity against it.  I think it was a bit more common in parts of Europe, but relatively uncommon in Canada/U.S., and uncommon in general now as modern consoles are harder to hack.  And to the degree that some are easier to jailbreak (I'm looking at you, Switch), higher incomes create less incentive to do so.  But sure, you'll always see some piracy everywhere.  It's just a matter of degrees.

Last edited by scrapking - on 07 December 2021

Jumpin said:

I doubt Xbox Series S is beating the Switch anytime soon. So, I don’t see this happening.

My intent was to suggest it might be first-place amongst dedicated home consoles, not handhelds.  That's why I only mentioned Series S, Series X, and PS5 in my post.  Apologies for any confusion.  I'll edit my post to make that clearer.



src said:

This is incredibly wrong.

Game data is on disc, which is why install does not require internet connection. Only patches do.

It's not incredibly wrong, it's very much correct for many titles.  It's been that way for a while now.  And how could it be otherwise?  Last-gen you had 100-150 GB games coming on 50 GB discs.

Even in the rare circumstance where the entire game is on the disc at launch, by the time the game is several years old the patches will have replaced more and more of the core game, meaning over time less and less of the data on the disc will be relevant to a reinstall.  Increasingly, the disc is just a dongle to prove you own a licence for the game.  Increasingly, your install/re-install situation often doesn't change much whether you have the disc or not.

Hell, the Nintendo Switch has CARTRIDGES without all of the game(s) on them now.  GTA Trilogy has only 2 of the three games on the cartridge, as but one example.  Some Switch carts are little more than a dongle to entitle you to download the game.  Scott the Woz has an entire video on that topic here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moj2wnzvQjY

Last edited by scrapking - on 07 December 2021