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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Biggest pleasant surprise of the Switch era

Zippy6 said:

Most of the games you listed there are cross-gen which isn't the same thing as they are brand new games not rehashes of old games. Also yes Uncharted 1-3 shouldn't be split-up, otherwise then we'd be splitting NSMBU and NSLU and Bayonetta 1+2 up so that tactic to pad the list would end up backfiring. Likewise including Helldivers and especially Journey against full retail titles could be seen as padding the list in Nintendo's favour but let's include them anyway: PS3 to PS4 vs WiiU to Switch:

The Last of Us Remastered Bayonetta 1+2
God of War III Remastered Captain Toad Treasure Tracker
Uncharted Nathan Drake Collection Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze
Beyond Two Souls Hyrule Warriors
Journey Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
Heavy Rain New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe
Wipeout Omega Collection Pokken Tournament
Helldivers Tokyo Mirage Sessions
Pikmin 3 Deluxe
Mario 3D World

So you're right the difference isn't MASSIVE. But there's several reasons Nintendo gets more flack for it than Sony.

1st: The pricing. An example we can take here is TLOU:R. It launched just 1 year later on the PS4, they bundled it with all the DLC and they charged $50 for it, $10 less than the original release. Meanwhile Nintendo will take a game that is years old like DKC:TF, slap a bit of content in and then charge more for it than it cost in the original release.

PlayStation remasters are usually priced lower than the original releases, in fact the only game in that list they charged $60 for was Uncharted and that included 3 games that were originally $60 each.

Game Price
The Last of Us Remastered $50
God of War 3 Remastered $40
Uncharted Nathan Drake Collection $60
Beyond Two Souls $30
Heavy Rain $30
Helldivers Ultimate Edition $40
Journey $20
Wipeout Omega Collection $40

Game Price
Bayonetta 1+2 $60
Captain Toad $40 (Same as WiiU release)
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze $60
Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition $60
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe $60
New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe $60
Pokken Tournament Deluxe $60
Tokyo Mirage Sessions $60
Pikmin 3 Deluxe $60
Mario 3D World + Bowsers Fury $60

That's the first reason Nintendo gets more negative reactions to it's WiiU Ports.

The second reason is that Nintendo relies heavily on it's first party for it's systems. Sony can get away with some remaster padding because the majority of it's userbase is quite happy playing many of the blockbsuter third party titles like GTA, Far Cry, CoD, Fifa, Assassin's Creed etc in the gaps between. Switch leans far heavier on it's first party and so padding with remasters has a much greater affect on it's users.

So in summary: Nintendo gets more hate for it's last-gen ports because they price them high and their system is a lot more reliant on first party content.

Bold 1: Yeah, I understood that which is why I didn't. I also combined several Nintendo titles in my list for the total games released as well. I'm not sure why you think I'm trying to be devious. I also included simultaneous releases with BotW. I'm not opposed to being fair at all, but I'm also fine with taking out the simultaneous releases as well since you'd prefer.

Bold 2: I'm counting titles that were released physically. I don't care if they are full, or half, or whatever. The pricing is of no concern to me for this (see: Bold 3) 

Bold 3: I don't understand how the perception that Nintendo is relying on Wii U ports and their library mostly consists of Wii U ports has ANYTHING to do with their pricing structure. Those are two different arguments. One is: "Is Nintendo porting too many games from the Wii U" and the other is "Are the games they are porting worth the price of admission". I will be the first to admit that despite purchasing several Wii U ports, I don't like their pricing structure. I definitely prefer Sony's, but I tolerate Nintendo's (sometimes). 

Bold 4: Nintendo relies on first party content because they receive less AAA support and their userbase primarily purchases Nintendo published content (though these last quarters have actually shown a bit of a change in that). The suggestion that Sony is allowed to port their content but Nintendo isn't because Nintendo receives less AAA third party support overall is blaming Nintendo for something they don't have control over. In addition, if this is your argument, would it not be fair to include all of the last generation ports from each of the third party publishers in an argument against Sony's consoles since Sony relies on third party content more than Nintendo? I don't think that would be a fair comparison at all. I think that each company can only control the output of what they publish. Nintendo already publishes more content on average than both Sony and MS for their console, so I think you're placing them on a freakishly high standard that they won't be able to meet, especially since they are quite significantly smaller than MS and Sony. 

Side note: The Switch actually has more games total for the platform (over 4000) than the PS4 does now, so it's userbase has a lot to play. Yes it isn't AAA, but I do think that having a pretty significant number of titles over the PS4 does mean that these single individual ports don't really affect the userbase much at all. I mean, these ports should really be seen as a net positive regardless, but that's beside the point. 

Last edited by Doctor_MG - on 25 November 2021

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This is a hard question, because every long-living series has its best title since ages: Zelda, Tetris, Dragon Quest, Mario Tennis, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Party, Animal Crossing, Smash Bros., Metroid. All of these games surprised me in an unexpected way.

Then we have some very good remasters, which we haven't seen during Wii and Wii U era: Mario Kart 8 (60fps in 2 player mode), Link's Awakening, Pokémon Let's Go, Skyward Sword, Final Fantasy, Katamari Damacy.

But the games which were waaaaaay better than I initially thought were Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity, Mario Tennis Aces, SnowRunner, Dragon Quest XI and Octopath Traveler.

On the other hand - the most disappointing game for me is Bravely Default II. I really had to force myself to finish this game.



siebensus4 said:

Then we have some very good remasters, which we haven't seen during Wii and Wii U era: Mario Kart 8 (60fps in 2 player mode)

It was already 60fps with 2 players on the Wii U, Deluxe only upped the resolution.




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Doctor_MG said:

Bold 3: I don't understand how the perception that Nintendo is relying on Wii U ports and their library mostly consists of Wii U ports has ANYTHING to do with their pricing structure. Those are two different arguments. One is: "Is Nintendo porting too many games from the Wii U" and the other is "Are the games they are porting worth the price of admission". I will be the first to admit that despite purchasing several Wii U ports, I don't like their pricing structure. I definitely prefer Sony's, but I tolerate Nintendo's (sometimes). 

On the surface yeah it doesn't have anything to do with it. But it's relevant because it's what leads people to complain about them.

Thought Process: Wow they are charging too much for this old WiiU game on Switch -> WiiU Ports are bad -> Nintendo make too many WiiU Ports.

If the WiiU ports/remasters were cheaper there'd be less negativity surrounding them meaning less people would be complaining about them, even about things that have nothing to do with pricing. The dots don't need to line-up perfectly or at all, if you feel bad about something you'll be more critical about other completely unrelated aspects too.

This also applies similarly to your Bold 4, you asked why people kept criticising Nintendo for their ports/remasters more than other platforms, and that's because their customers have higher expectations and rely more on their first party output. Whether those expectations are fair or not doesn't really have any effect. It's one reason Nintendo is more criticised. 

I'm not saying Nintendo isn't "allowed" to do something, I'm just pointing out the reasons why "People don't say this about the PS4, so idk why they continue saying this about the Switch."

Last edited by Zippy6 - on 25 November 2021

Witcher 3 (or the Switcher). When it was announced, it was one of those "what? no. no way! WOW!" moments. That's my go-to game while commuting or during the long flights.



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victor83fernandes said:
yvanjean said:

There a huge cliff between Zelda: Breath of the Wild/Super Mario Odyssey and everything else that came out after. These two games are the pillar of that really propelled the switch. Both games are game of the decade in term of innovation and quality. These game have that special magic that is unique only to Nintendo and that get people coming back.

There a bunch of honorable mention Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Animal Crossing, Stardew Valley, etc. But, After that it been only repackaged WiiU games and the long wait for what comes next. Finally the wait seem to be over with Breath of the Wild 2



Not truth at all, Zelda I agree, but Xenoblade Chronicles is on the same level. And I'll take Pikmin 3, xenoblade chronicles 2 or monster hunter rise over mario odyssey. Even tough some are ports, but Xenoblade looks way better than the wii version and pikmin is a more unique beast, most people never had a wiiU, in fact around 95% of the people who own a switch never had a wiiU, so pikmin 3 was like a brand new game for the vast majority.

Animal crossing did more for the switch than zelda too. And I believe the next big game will be pokemon arceus.

I can only dream of a Mario Galaxy 3 before the generation is done.

Those other games you mention, stardew, fire emblem are really nothing special, they're just good games that's all, I wouldn't buy a switch just for those games.

You mean Xenoblade Chronicles 2 since Xenoblade Chronicles was enhance Wii Version. I must admit that the load time got to me and I never played more than 10 hours of Xenoblade Chronicles 2. The story never capture me like the first game did on Wii where I played over 100 hours. 

First of all the WiiU was a flop but you random % is probably way off. Nintendo is made up of a very strong core audience that pick up every console.

Seem to me like Nintendo really struggle from the switch to SD to HD. Games were extremely scarce on WiiU. We all hope that combine handheld and console system would result in much more games. As older gamer the Pokemon franchise and many of Nintendo Kid friendly IP (Splatoon, Nintendo Labo, Yoshi crafted world, etc.) have very little appeal. 

They also screw up great IP like Mario Golf. 

I think Nintendo at least publicly acknowledge that they need to grow their development team:
"Nintendo plans to invest up to 100 billion yen (~$880 million) to “expand game software development frameworks inside the Nintendo group.” Considering that Nintendo has yet to begin production on its next-generation console, we’ll see the impact of the investment starting with Switch games."

I would still buy a switch just to play Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey.



For me the title for "Biggest Pleasant Surprise of The Switch Era" has to go to Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Bros.



Doctor_MG said:
yvanjean said:

There a huge cliff between Zelda: Breath of the Wild/Super Mario Odyssey and everything else that came out after. These two games are the pillar of that really propelled the switch. Both games are game of the decade in term of innovation and quality. These game have that special magic that is unique only to Nintendo and that get people coming back.

There a bunch of honorable mention Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Animal Crossing, Stardew Valley, etc. But, After that it been only repackaged WiiU games and the long wait for what comes next. Finally the wait seem to be over with Breath of the Wild 2

Really dislike when people suggest that the Switch has mostly repackaged Wii U games. Of the 59** games Nintendo has published physically on the Switch only around 11 of them are also on Wii U. Here is the list: BotW, Mario Kart 8, Pokken Tournament, Bayonetta 2, DKC: Tropical Freeze, Hyrule Warriors 1, Captain Toad, New Super Mario Bros U, Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Pikmin 3 Deluxe, and Super Mario 3D World. 

Since Nintendo released Mario Odyssey they've released 51 other titles, with only 8 of those titles being on the Wii U and four of those were in 2018. Basically, they've given us four titles on the Wii U in the last three years. This narrative that Nintendo has inundated its users with Wii U port after Wii U port has got to end. It's just not true. Maybe it was true back in 2018, but it's certainly not true in 2021. 

**This number doesn't include games that were only published in one region, such as Bravely Default 2, and it has combined certain titles such as Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee or the four Labo kits into one published title for simplicity and honesty 

Bayonetta - Nintendo Switch; Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee! - Nintendo Switch; Super Mario 3D All-Stars - Nintendo Switch; Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition - Nintendo Switch.; The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD - Nintendo Switch.

Haha I see what you did, you got us on a technicality. Nintendo is now repackaging Wii games therefore doesn't count toward the WiiU repackage games. 

All kidding aside, Nintendo was suppose to give us the best of both world combining 3DS and WiiU on one platform. That promise certainly as not happen and Nintendo themselves just publicly announce that they will invest 900 million in Software development showing a lack of production. There also the concern about what the heck is happening at Retro studios? For a company known for quality they just release the worst entry in the Mario Golf series which as always been a must own on what ever platform it release. 

My biggest pleasant surprise was how good BotW turned out to be and I am happy that we will get BotW 2 next year.



Zippy6 said:

On the surface yeah it doesn't have anything to do with it. But it's relevant because it's what leads people to complain about them.

Thought Process: Wow they are charging too much for this old WiiU game on Switch -> WiiU Ports are bad -> Nintendo make too many WiiU Ports.

If the WiiU ports/remasters were cheaper there'd be less negativity surrounding them meaning less people would be complaining about them, even about things that have nothing to do with pricing. The dots don't need to line-up perfectly or at all, if you feel bad about something you'll be more critical about other completely unrelated aspects too.

This also applies similarly to your Bold 4, you asked why people kept criticising Nintendo for their ports/remasters more than other platforms, and that's because their customers have higher expectations and rely more on their first party output. Whether those expectations are fair or not doesn't really have any effect. It's one reason Nintendo is more criticised. 

I'm not saying Nintendo isn't "allowed" to do something, I'm just pointing out the reasons why "People don't say this about the PS4, so idk why they continue saying this about the Switch."

"But, After that it been only repackaged WiiU games and the long wait for what comes next"

This is the quote in which I was referring my original comments to. I'm critiquing the perception of the quote above, not the negative perception of Wii U ports in general, which is why I said in my side note that them being viewed as a net positive is beside my overall point. 

In other words, it isn't about the negative reception of Wii U ports; it's about the perception that Nintendo's publishing output for Switch is PRIMARILY composed of Wii U ports that I'm arguing against. Which has nothing to do with pricing or whether third parties exist or not. All of that is a completely separate argument. 

Edit: And just to comment on the thought process, if that is indeed the thought process for many people then it's an availability heuristic based on feeling and not fact. A fallacy, in other words. 

Last edited by Doctor_MG - on 25 November 2021

yvanjean said:

Bayonetta - Nintendo Switch; Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee! - Nintendo Switch; Super Mario 3D All-Stars - Nintendo Switch; Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition - Nintendo Switch.; The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD - Nintendo Switch.

Haha I see what you did, you got us on a technicality. Nintendo is now repackaging Wii games therefore doesn't count toward the WiiU repackage games. 

All kidding aside, Nintendo was suppose to give us the best of both world combining 3DS and WiiU on one platform. That promise certainly as not happen and Nintendo themselves just publicly announce that they will invest 900 million in Software development showing a lack of production. There also the concern about what the heck is happening at Retro studios? For a company known for quality they just release the worst entry in the Mario Golf series which as always been a must own on what ever platform it release. 

My biggest pleasant surprise was how good BotW turned out to be and I am happy that we will get BotW 2 next year.

Well if you want to include all remakes and remasters from other generations, then it's definitely going to increase it. It looks like it's about 41:18 at that point. Which I would still disagree is primarily it's library. Though personally I don't see why remakes should be viewed in a negative light. However, you also have to remember the the 3DS, due to it's low resolution and graphical quality, was much easier to develop "high quality" games for, because the threshold was much lower than the Switch. Case in point, Legends Arceus would have been amazing/impossible on 3DS, but it's heavily criticized for a Switch game graphically. 

IDK what's going on with Retro. I'm hoping Prime 4 is a 2022 release, but I highly doubt we will see BotW 2, Bayo 3 AND Metroid Prime 4 all in the same year. I feel they'd save it for 2023. That would mean in 9 years they would have only released one game. Which is crazy considering their aptitude.