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Forums - Sales Discussion - PS5 Ships 13.4 Million Units as of September 30, PS4 Ships 116.6 Million

"Sony shipped 0.2 million PlayStation 4 consoles for the quarter, which is down from 1.5 million for the same quarter a year ago. Lifetime PlayStation 4 shipments are currently at 116.6 million units."

It is likely that PS4 will cross the 117m mark this holiday.  Given how quickly sales are dropping though, I doubt it will pass the 118m mark.  Looks like it will finish somewhere in the 117m - 118m range.

BraLoD said:

PS4 is dead.
Sony rather not sell it than cut the price, wow.

Yeah, I have to agree that this doesn't seem right.  The could cut the price to $200 and sell an extra 10-15m systems with little effort.  They would make profit on the hardware sales alone.  Ideally, they'd market subscriptions to these new PS4 owners.  

Not only would this strategy make them profit, but it would be a way to defend against Gamepass without much effort.  Currently, Playstation is a much stronger brand than XBox basically everywhere but North America.  That can change pretty easily though.  When given the choice between $500 hardware and $70 games or a Gamepass subscription, a lot of people will choose Gamepass.  There are a significant number of gamers in the world who are just never going to pay $500 for hardware (or whatever the equivalent is in their currency).

Basically, I think "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".  PS4 is already a successful system with a huge library of games.  It's also in a point in it's life where any revenue it generates will far outstrip related costs.  It's a pure profit system.  It also would slow down the advance of an aggressive competitor, Xbox/Gamepass.  PS5 is a shiny new system, but why put all their eggs in that basket?  The type of people would buy a $200 PS4 are not going to get a $500 PS5 anyway.



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DonFerrari said:
Dulfite said:

I think Sony is doing the smart thing. What's better?

-Continuing to make/market an old system heavily, knowing people aren't buying games there as much as the current gen.

-Focus on the current gen device, make few old systems and spend little on marketing it (if any).

I think the Big 3 have found out that there is far more money to be made pushing current gen devices. You get more water squeezing a fully submerged towel than you do squeezing one that was wet a few days ago. What they care about is pushing their "wettest" console, I doubt they care much about lifetime sales since old gen consoles aren't selling nearly as much software as they used to.

Different from PS2 days and before when the launch in markets were a lot more tiered and they had less historical data, probably now they have enough that show the drop in SW sales is step even if they keep selling systems so it is pointless to cut the price and keep the tail going for years when they can put that money in accelerating the current gen and earn more profits (PS4 and PS5 profits shows that it is working much better than PS1 to PS3 eras). PS2 dominated and outsold competition like 5:1 and had 1.5B sold of SW still PS4 was having profits that possibly in every year outdone the combined years of PS2.

Exactly. And I've said it before, PS2 only sold as many HW units as it did because it had a ridiculously long life, which helped contribute to PS3 having a LOT less units sold by the end of PS3's life (amongst other reasons). But as you point out, it's about profits, and that's why PS4 is tanking now and PS5 is thriving, and it's also the main reasoning behind why I think Nintendo will cut the cord on Switch 1 in 2023 to fully embrace Switch 2. All about profits, which you achieve on newer systems with excited fanbases willing to pay full price for new games, full price for consoles, and full price for accessories.

Software sales will be a joke in 2023 for Switch 1 compared to what Switch 2 could do, just like they are a joke right now for PS4 compared to what PS5 is doing.

Long life the 6 year cycle!



Dulfite said:
DonFerrari said:

Different from PS2 days and before when the launch in markets were a lot more tiered and they had less historical data, probably now they have enough that show the drop in SW sales is step even if they keep selling systems so it is pointless to cut the price and keep the tail going for years when they can put that money in accelerating the current gen and earn more profits (PS4 and PS5 profits shows that it is working much better than PS1 to PS3 eras). PS2 dominated and outsold competition like 5:1 and had 1.5B sold of SW still PS4 was having profits that possibly in every year outdone the combined years of PS2.

Exactly. And I've said it before, PS2 only sold as many HW units as it did because it had a ridiculously long life, which helped contribute to PS3 having a LOT less units sold by the end of PS3's life (amongst other reasons). But as you point out, it's about profits, and that's why PS4 is tanking now and PS5 is thriving, and it's also the main reasoning behind why I think Nintendo will cut the cord on Switch 1 in 2023 to fully embrace Switch 2. All about profits, which you achieve on newer systems with excited fanbases willing to pay full price for new games, full price for consoles, and full price for accessories.

Software sales will be a joke in 2023 for Switch 1 compared to what Switch 2 could do, just like they are a joke right now for PS4 compared to what PS5 is doing.

Long life the 6 year cycle!

If Sony was able to make PS4 profitable for 100USD (or Nintendo with Switch) to really have good sales on poor market that would give extra profit for legacy SW sold at discount maybe that could make sense, but selling at loss for a 200USD device that is still to expensive for poor markets as you said just remove focus from the current machine.

If Switch SW numbers holds until 2023 then they may keep it a little longer while. The timing for a new HW haven't changed much, as soon as SW sales starts dropping the new HW is on the horizon to launch, what I see that changed is company willing to keep squeezing the hw on the dwindling SW.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

BraLoD said:

PS4 is dead.
Sony rather not sell it than cut the price, wow.

More like there is no inventory to sell because all their manufacturing is going to the PS5. They literally can't make PS4s right now which is why it's practically impossible to find them anywhere outside of the second-hand market.



Dulfite said:
DonFerrari said:

Different from PS2 days and before when the launch in markets were a lot more tiered and they had less historical data, probably now they have enough that show the drop in SW sales is step even if they keep selling systems so it is pointless to cut the price and keep the tail going for years when they can put that money in accelerating the current gen and earn more profits (PS4 and PS5 profits shows that it is working much better than PS1 to PS3 eras). PS2 dominated and outsold competition like 5:1 and had 1.5B sold of SW still PS4 was having profits that possibly in every year outdone the combined years of PS2.

Exactly. And I've said it before, PS2 only sold as many HW units as it did because it had a ridiculously long life, which helped contribute to PS3 having a LOT less units sold by the end of PS3's life (amongst other reasons). But as you point out, it's about profits, and that's why PS4 is tanking now and PS5 is thriving, and it's also the main reasoning behind why I think Nintendo will cut the cord on Switch 1 in 2023 to fully embrace Switch 2. All about profits, which you achieve on newer systems with excited fanbases willing to pay full price for new games, full price for consoles, and full price for accessories.

Software sales will be a joke in 2023 for Switch 1 compared to what Switch 2 could do, just like they are a joke right now for PS4 compared to what PS5 is doing.

Long life the 6 year cycle!

Systems have the highest profit margins when they are old.  Hardware manufacturing costs are low, and software sales often continue to be strong for 1-2 years after hardware sales have dropped significantly.  The hit games are already made, so development costs are already spent.  At that point it's almost pure profit.

On the other hand Sony especially has always had a business model where they take a loss early on, because they know they'll make better profits later.



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Q1 they sold 500k PS4 units and in Q2 they sold 200k PS4 units. That's down from 1.9M units and 1.5M units respectively. Last year they only sold 1.4M PS4 units in Q3, so I'm not expecting anything above 400-500k for PS4 this quarter.

This is it folks. The end of the cycle. Unless Sony changes trajectory, PS4 will stop at around 17.5M units sold. It didn't beat the Gameboy, but being the fourth best selling video game console ever made (or fifth by the end of Switch's life cycle) is pretty dang impressive.



Now i'm not 100% sure how Sony does it, but why would you use capacity on producing PS4's if that capacity can also be used for 5's.
The PS4 userbase is large enough to maximize profits. Why add another 5-10%, if you can grow your smaller userbase for the next cycle faster?

EDIT everything above 80million is just food for the fanwars



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 said:

Now i'm not 100% sure how Sony does it, but why would you use capacity on producing PS4's if that capacity can also be used for 5's.
The PS4 userbase is large enough to maximize profits. Why add another 5-10%, if you can grow your smaller userbase for the next cycle faster?

EDIT everything above 80million is just food for the fanwars

I don't think the capacities competes, different wafers and manufacturing process I would say.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
kirby007 said:

Now i'm not 100% sure how Sony does it, but why would you use capacity on producing PS4's if that capacity can also be used for 5's.
The PS4 userbase is large enough to maximize profits. Why add another 5-10%, if you can grow your smaller userbase for the next cycle faster?

EDIT everything above 80million is just food for the fanwars

I don't think the capacities competes, different wafers and manufacturing process I would say.

that is like saying a car factory can only produce one kind of car

I am quite sure the lowered demand on the ps4 opened room to swap part of the processes over.



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

curl-6 said:

PS4 really seems to be nearing the end of the road.

The pandemic pretty much killed it. After stock went out, no more PS4s were getting manufactured. Of course priority shifted to the new consoles. Hence the stalled hardware. Shame really. I thought for sure it would have gotten to at least 125m.



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