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Forums - Gaming - David Jaffe's take on Metroid Dread

I feel the videos you posted were really well done disses on Jaffe lol. Personally, I like Jaffe. He has created two of my childhood favorite series for playstation (twisted metal and God of War) and he is one of the most personable devs out there and isn't afraid to criticize lots of things.

That said, boy oh boy is he being obtuse. Personally I think he was looking for something to complain about. The first half of Metroid Dreads level design is so impeccably well crafted that I literally didn't look at a map once for the first five hours or so of my game (which is strange for a Metroid game). Not to say everything about it is perfect, just that the game is excellent at guiding the player without telling them exactly where to go. This particular room is such a non issue that it didn't even register to me. In both my playthrough a it never dawned on me that this was even hidden, it just seems so obvious.



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twintail said:
GoOnKid said:

Sure we could have, but this room he rambles about is a prime example of how to not hold the players hand and still maintain great level design. This example is therefore very relevant to the topic.

Yes, the expert tricks that you can do with the shinespark are never explained. Jaffe however struggles at the very beginning of the game and ignores the many clues that the game indeed gave him.

I would actually love to expand this discussion not to just this example, though. What are your favorite games with and without hand holding? Do you like games that explicitly tell you exactly what to do next, or would you rather find out yourself?

Yeah I get what you're saying. I'm not denying the connection, but rather the giving of a platform to Jaffe.

Anyhow, specific to your question: I guess it doesn't matter much to me. I honestly only have a finite amount of time to dedicate to gaming, so I'm not big on the idea no hand holding if it leads to arbitrary vagueness. Paper Beasts is one such game. I dunno, there were a couple times where I had no idea what I was meant to even be doing, and discovered that I had spent like an hour doing something in the completely wrong spot. 

I think Last Guardian and Hitman have good implementations. TLG has a meditate button: upon pressing it the narrator will provide context for what needs to be done in like a story manner. It's not always 100% direct, but I think it's a great feature to help ppl who can't figure out what to do next. Granted, the game is buggy and this feature doesn't work as intended. Hitman: I play each new level on Master difficulty first. Here there's nothing to help you figure out what to do. Afterwards, I'll play on professional difficulty and just follow the waypoints to complete the different story missions. 

Seems like you don't like him very much. What happened?

I didn't know Paper Beast. Checked some gameplay, it looks interesting! Sucks that you wasted an hour but maybe that hour was at least somehow enjoyable, a bit?

That meditation system in TLG seems a nice way to implement that little extra help, yes. It's optional and not straight in your face, I think that's a good solution. In some Mario games when you die a lot in a level then some sort of help system appears at the start of the level. Luigi comes and plays the level for you. But that is optional, too. You have to hit a specific block which only appears in that specific case. If you don't want to, just don't.

As somebody with not all that much spare time you sure have an interesting approach to Hitman xD I can imagine that you would have to restart a level several times in order to get everything done right, no? But it's cool to play it like that, I guess. If that is the only way to switch off all hints and notifications, then sure, why not. I never played Hitman, but I briefly know what it's about and how it is played. I can nly imagine the satisfaction of lining up all those little details perfectly.



Not every game is for everyone if these type of games frustrate him he should play something else. It is amusing that he say's Shantae does metroidvania right when it has the same inadvisable walls that you can climb under. I'm a huge fan of Shantae games as well but what he is complaining about is also in that series.



ClassicGamingWizzz said:

We all should praise everything nintendo, no one is allowed to have a opinion about a nintendo product that is not favourable.

pot meet kettle



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

ClassicGamingWizzz said:

We all should praise everything nintendo, no one is allowed to have a opinion about a nintendo product that is not favourable.

This is just plain lazy, if you're going to troll make it less obvious. Just have a look at the Nintendo what the heck thread to see plenty of nintendo fans complaining about nintendo 



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ClassicGamingWizzz said:

We all should praise everything nintendo, no one is allowed to have a opinion about a nintendo product that is not favourable.

People gave the reason why his criticism is stupid as fuck. You cannot actually debunk that reasoning, so you are making a strawman argument that people are criticising him out of pure bias.  



thats quite ironic noone can disagree with me otherwise they hit my ignorelist



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 said:

thats quite ironic noone can disagree with me otherwise they hit my ignorelist

We all should praise everything Classicgamingwhiz, no one is allowed to have a opinion about a Classicgamingwhiz post that is not favourable.



He's not really into Metroid so I can see why he felt the way he did but to just chalk it up to "bad game design" and rage quit it is just in really poor taste. The game even tells you what to do in situations like his.

But I can also see the angle where maybe in QA they could have done a better job relaying concerns to the dev team for scenarios where the player doesn't play as the devs intended. I recall Jaffe saying he would playtest a game and intentionally go out of his way to see "what if the player doesn't want to do this here or maybe it didn't occur to them to do this here" and I think there's definitely some merit to that style of game design.

He had a cool chat with Gene Park yesterday about the game...again and he might go back to it but I doubt he will. I guess it's just not his style of metroidvania.



Even if he was totally right about that one room, would that make any difference? In a game like this does one room having a problem really tarnish the experience?