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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Switch OLED model just got announced.

This is a disappointing revision overall. While it's a decently substantial upgrade for people who play mainly or exclusively in handheld for those who play mainly or exclusively in docked it doesn't offer much yet costs more. A Nintendo console getting an OLED screen is really nice though considering how bad the screens on Nintendo consoles have been historically. Some responses I've seen do confuse me since I don't get being glad this isn't more powerful or chastising people feeling disappointed. Considering how poorly certain Switch games run not having to wait a minimum another two years to play them with resolution and/or frame rates that aren't bad would've been really nice for a lot of people.



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I think Nintendo’s R&D team looks carefully into how they price their consoles based on the parts they can get and the cost measures to make said consoles. Then they probably consider what is a competitive price that allows them to make back the production costs. I’m sure they have th research data on how the Switch being used in households. If people are willing to buy a revision at $350, then they were right to price it as such. If not a lot of people don’t buy it, then they don’t buy it and Nintendo will look into what went wrong.



IcaroRibeiro said:
Chrkeller said:

There isn't a monopoly in gaming 

The point is, we don't see a significant shift in prices regardless of demand or the lack of it.

Simply not true.  3DS very quickly dropped in price.  Dreamcast dropped in price.  Saturn dropped in price.  N64 had hardware and software price adjustments shortly after launch.  Wii U had 3 free games shortly after launch.  Xbox One dropped price and Kinect shortly after launch.  Xbox currently has two SKUs, premium (X) and budget (S).  Original Xbox dropped the price and quickly updated with a better controller.  Playstation 3 dropped in price exceptionally quick.

Price adjustments happen all the time in gaming, when demand dictates as such.  And who dictates demand?  Consumers.  

Nothing you are posting is even remotely accurate.  But hey, continue driving some imaginary pretend economics.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 07 July 2021

i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

tsogud said:
Cobretti2 said:

I personally feel that a mid gen upgrade would have been pointless because no one has ever been able to quantify what hardware it could use that would make it feel worth buying other the original console.  If anything it would have created a pain in the arse for those who have the original model as some games woudl not run on it well only for what maybe a 30% gain in performance on a mid gen upgrade? People keep spitting out DLSS 4K, cool but what hardware is available atm in small factor form that would achieve a true next gen 4K experience? It would be gimped at best upscaled to 4K.

I am glad they didn't do it because it now means whatever NVIDIA is developing in terms of CPU/GPU for Switch 2 has the potential to be a significant increase as new technology comes out. There is no reason than in 3 years time when the next console comes out that games cannot look close to PS5 level with DLSS support and better base hardware for 1080p

Some games already don't run well on it without a mid-gen upgrade... Nintendo published games to boot. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has performance problems and the resolution suffers, Age of Calamity is a mess both in performance and visual fidelity, even Bowser's Fury has frame rate dips (although it's very playable), Link's Awakening stutters and has frame rate dips as well as a lower resolution than expected. Some of these issues could just be issues of poor optimization but a lot are because of hardware limitations.

I primarily play portable only docked when playing Smash, Mario Kart, and Mario Party with family and friends so I don't care about 4K at all. I only want to be able to play Nintendo games at a stable performance and at least at a dynamic 720p but my original Switch can't even handle that. It's not an unreasonable request from Nintendo.

I don't expect a mid-gen hardware upgrade any time soon but judging by Nintendo's past with New 3ds, DSi and even GBA and GB it's highly likely it's going to happen and a lot of people, including me, will be glad to play Nintendo games at acceptable performances when/if it comes out.

I think that having the devs optimize the games on the consoles we already have is a better idea than forcing another hardware paywall onto us to get the same games, but just running somewhat better on remixed consoles.



Chrkeller said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

The point is, we don't see a significant shift in prices regardless of demand or the lack of it.

Simply not true.  3DS very quickly dropped in price.  Dreamcast dropped in price.  Saturn dropped in price.  N64 had hardware and software price adjustments shortly after launch.  Wii U had 3 free games shortly after launch.  Xbox One dropped price and Kinect shortly after launch.  Xbox currently has two SKUs, premium (X) and budget (S).  Original Xbox dropped the price and quickly updated with a better controller.  Playstation 3 dropped in price exceptionally quick.

Price adjustments happen all the time in gaming, when demand dictates as such.  And who dictates demand?  Consumers.  

Nothing you are posting is even remotely accurate.  But hey, continue driving some imaginary pretend economics.  

GameCube had a price drop about a year from launch, if I remember correctly.



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I really expected some hardware upgrade for TV mode users. I have an ethernet adapter for my dock since launch day, my micro SD card has enough empty space so I don't need more internal memory, joy-con drift should also continue. So there's no need to buy this new model in my case.



Chrkeller said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

The point is, we don't see a significant shift in prices regardless of demand or the lack of it.

Simply not true.  3DS very quickly dropped in price.  Dreamcast dropped in price.  Saturn dropped in price.  N64 had hardware and software price adjustments shortly after launch.  Wii U had 3 free games shortly after launch.  Xbox One dropped price and Kinect shortly after launch.  Xbox currently has two SKUs, premium (X) and budget (S).  Original Xbox didn't drop the price, but quickly updated with a better controller.  Price adjustments happen all the time in gaming, when demand dictates as such.  And who dictates demand?  Consumers.  

Nothing you are posting is even remotely accurate.  But hey, continue driving some imaginary pretend economics.  

Such as PS1 dropped in price, PS2 dropped in price, DS dropped in price, Xbox 360 dropped the price, Wii dropped in price (on its peak year I must address). Those price drops weren't dictated by customers demand as all those systems were pretty hot when they got their price cuts, they were to align to certain company strategy

Besides you are looking ONLY for price drops, I'm asking you to look to the other way instead. Why are companies not increasing their prices even with demand sky high for consoles and damn scalpers selling Switches for even 500 USD?

It's because we are talking about oligopoly here. Oligpolies are sensitive to price increases much more than to price cuts, if don't mind some reading: https://www.cliffsnotes.com/study-guides/economics/monopolistic-competition-and-oligopoly/kinked-demand-theory-of-oligopoly

This is a very well know economic aspect of markets, I'm by no means an expert of this subject buy I know enough of this to understand customers have few power in markets with imperfect competition 

The premise "If you don't like it, don't buy it" or "vote with your wallet" ultimelty makes sense only if you have enough back options to increase the demand for other products in the same market, so companies can really feel the heat of losing customers. In this industry we have few other options. It's either pick wich one offers you the best value proposition (as their prices for both hardware and software are largely the same) or just drop your hobbie 



Indeed talking about Wii price cut, 5 minutes of wikipedia told me PS3 and Xbox also got their price cuts just few weeks later, Nintendo was just following suit

Perfectly matches with kinked-demand theory model about price cuts:

"If the oligopolist reduces its price below P, it is assumed that its competitors will follow suit and reduce their prices as well. The oligopolist will then face the relatively less elastic (or more inelastic) market demand curve MD 2. The oligopolist's market demand curve becomes less elastic at prices below P because the other oligopolists in the market have also reduced their prices. When oligopolists follow each others pricing decisions, consumer demand for each oligopolist's product will become less elastic (or less sensitive) to changes in price because each oligopolist is matching the price changes of its competitors."


Also perfectly explain why nobody is getting price cuts this gen. They are just following the cartel model where everybody is about satisfied with their current sales/revenue and realized price cuts only lead to long therm lose in revenue rather than long therm increases (second hand experience from past generations)

Edit: I'm also dropping this discussion here because it's derailing the thread. I think we can create another if you find this subject interesting  just don't belong here

Last edited by IcaroRibeiro - on 07 July 2021

Well you are being foolishly hard headed, so this will be my last response pointing out the oh so many flaws in your argument:

1) "Also perfectly explain why nobody is getting price cuts this gen": FALSE - Xbox One, which is the weakest seller this past generation received a quick and substantial price cut

2) "they were to align to certain company strategy": And what dictates company strategy? CONSUMERS

3) "Besides you are looking ONLY for price drops, I'm asking you to look to the other way instead": You mean like Sony raising the prices of their games and controllers? Or going from free online to charging yearly?  You mean those type of price increases?  

4) "Why are companies not increasing their prices even with demand sky high for consoles and damn scalpers selling Switches for even 500 USD?": Because it would alienate consumers and damage their brand, decreasing their future sales... YOU ARE THE ONE WHO POINTED THIS OUT ALREADY

5) "The premise "If you don't like it, don't buy it" or "vote with your wallet" ultimelty makes sense only if you have enough back options to increase the demand for other products in the same market": Xbox One, Xbox Series S/X, ps4, ps5, Switch, PC, mobile....  plenty of options.  And the ps4 sold hot out of the gates, kept it price for YEARS.  XBox One sold poorly out of the gate... what happened?  A quick and massive price cut.  See how that works?


/my involvement

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 07 July 2021

i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Yeah, I know they can be transformed to be used in another market. But you're glossing over the points I made before.

  1. Xavier's Volta GPU is inadequate for mobile use as it's built with HPC and AI in mind and thus too power-consuming at same node and power draw compared to Pascal and Maxwell. Switch reportedly only draws 3W in handheld mode, and the NX 10W would need to cut almost all the power from the GPU's side since the CPU is already down to a quad-core with only 1.2Ghz, and even in console mode it would have some reduced power and thus performance for sure. I doubt Xavier with the same power draw could boost performance by more than 15-20% unless CPU limited (Carmel has about 80% higher IPC than the A57)

The Switch launch model was consuming 11w of power whilst docked running Breath of the Wild.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11181/a-look-at-nintendo-switch-power-consumption/2

A 10w Volta chip is fine.

Anandtech also recorded 8.9w of power consumption in handheld mode, which is a step down from the docked power consumption, however the screen is also gobbling up some of that.

The point is, The Switch already exceeds 10w in docked mode anyway without all the extra components buzzing along... So a fully clocked Volta can slot in that same power envelope on day 1 whilst docked.

As for HPC and A.I. The interesting parts of those aspects is... Those processing capabilities can be used for things like DLSS as Volta has a Tensor Processing Unit and Deep Learning Accelerator.
If you want more of an in-depth understanding of Volta and how HPC/A.I can lend itself to gaming, give this a good read.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12673/titan-v-deep-learning-deep-dive

**********

In regards to the CPU, the CPU can be reduced down to 1Ghz from 2Ghz, keep in mind that Tegra Volta is using Denver2 so it offers a significant increase in performance even at the same clock over the compliment of 1ghz A57 cores found in Tegra Maxwell.
Plus the Tegra Volta's A57 cores can be clocked to the same level as the Switch for backwards compatibility/power consumption for developers who opt for it or for developers who wish to dump more TDP into the GPU.

**********

Remember the biggest advantage of Tegra Volta and one of the greatest issues with Tegra Maxwell is... Memory bandwidth. Tegra Volta offers up twice the bandwidth in raw numbers and an extra upwards of 20% on top of that thanks to improvements found in Delta Colour Compression.

Tegra Volta almost has sufficient bandwidth and fillrate to do 1080P gaming.

**********

The other aspect of Tegra Volta we need to keep in mind is that... It's built on an Archaic 12nm FF process, there is the possibility to port that SoC to a 10nm process which is rather quick and easy and can net a good 20% power saving. (As 10nm is based on 12nm design rules.)

Bofferbrauer2 said:
  1. Orin ain't even out yet and won't be for another year, while Atlan isn't out for another 4 years. So they can't be used anytime soon.

I never asserted that Orin was out yet.

However, Orin is being sampled with partners, that likely includes Nintendo.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

  1. NVidia has mentioned several times that they don't want to make custom or semi-custom chips like AMD does, So Nintendo is limited to the models NVidia produces - and neither of those is any good for the Switch.

Companies make promises all the time, but when it comes to money and design wins, will always backflip on a policy if it's in their best interest.

The thing with mobile SoC's is that... nVidia doesn't exist in an empty vacuum, they have competition.

Samsung is now gearing up Exynos with Radeon Graphics for example, Qualcomm have Snapdragon (Which is also based on Radeon graphics) which is also  venerable.

So no. Nintendo isn't limited to nVidia's offerings. Money talks.



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