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Forums - Politics - Gina Carano - Disney fired her, what does that solve?

Torillian said:
TonsofPuppies said:

It's amusing to me how you still haven't figured out that these people contradict their own points of view constantly. For example, Disney champions equity, diversity and inclusion. Yet, in China, they shrunk down and hid John Boyega's character on the poster for the Chinese market, because apparently China is racist? They champion human rights yet at the same time filmed Mulan directly adjacent to China's current concentration camps (they even thank the administrative staff at these camps in Mulan's credits). You cannot be in favour of equity and also capitalist. Yet that's what they are (apparently). So yes, I acknowledge that their various points of view contradict one another. But your issue is with them for doing that, not me. I'm merely observing it.

Isn't a simpler explanation that they do whatever they think will make them the most money rather than "they're crazy far-left but they suck at it" when they do things that seem contradictory to your narrative. All that stuff makes perfect sense in my model where they're a company trying to make as much money as possible. Sure they can fuck up and do something that ends up losing them money, but that seems more plausible than your model in which they are circle jerk leftists but also randomly ignore some leftist issues because they simultaneously do everything for that high of being morally superior to others but also they took a black guy off a movie poster in China. 

I don't see how killing off (essentially) a fan favourite character makes disney more money. Cancelling her best-selling action figure as well? Come on now. How about the NBA? The NBA (for obvious reasons) hopped on the BLM bandwagon more than any other sports league in North America and their ratings have been in free fall ever since. This is despite the world being in the midst of a global pandemic with many people stuck at home with much more free time than usual. It's quite clear the the social justice initiative undertaken by the NBA and it's prominent stars (like LeBron James) is pushing many people away from their product. Yet, it continues.

If these entities were purely motivated by money (which I wish they were, tbh), they would keep politics out of their products all together. Politics, by their very nature, are divisive. And we're living in an era in which the divide between the political left and right is arguably the furthest it's ever been (at least in the West). Injecting identity politics into your product will not broaden it's mass market appeal. It's just a fact.



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Chris Hu said:

I have no problem with people getting fired for saying stupid stuff as a matter of fact it should happen more often it would stop more people from saying stupid stuff.

Aren't you just the one who just made the hilarious claim that "there are no far leftists in the United States"? Lol, better be careful what you wish for, regarding being canceled for saying something stupid. If that concept was universal, you would have just been booted from these boards for life.



sundin13 said:

I struggle to see what argument is being had here. "Some CEOs have a political lean and this is reflected in the decisions they make as businesses," is an utterly uncontroversial statement in my opinion. It is also not incompatible with the statement "Some CEOs take actions which correlates to their political lean in the belief that such actions will attract marketshare and profit".

I feel both parties are kind of throwing obviously true statements at each other and I'm not sure I see the point of the discussion being had.

You're steel-manning the position to make it rational.

The position was that CEOs are willing to make decisions that will cost them vast amounts of money solely to pander to the cancelmob, which has no actual economic power because they don't buy anything. 

Which is a completely different thing. It's simultaneously trying to paint cancel culture as a huge ominous threat, yet also portray it as a tiny minority nobody actually agrees with. And there are some serious conspiracy theorist undertones there, which is something I'm interested in, and why I was pressing on what was motivating these decisions. And they definitely bubbled up to the surface.

I enjoyed myself anyway. Sorry if you didn't like the ride.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 15 February 2021

TonsofPuppies said:
Chris Hu said:

I have no problem with people getting fired for saying stupid stuff as a matter of fact it should happen more often it would stop more people from saying stupid stuff.

Aren't you just the one who just made the hilarious claim that "there are no far leftists in the United States"? Lol, better be careful what you wish for, regarding being canceled for saying something stupid. If that concept was universal, you would have just been booted from these boards for life.

Again stop watching Fox news to much and snap out of your of alternate Universe the only people that think that there are actually far leftist in the USA are far right wingers; those people better never visit Europe either because in their book everyone is far leftist there.  Also the only think that is hilarious is right wingers and extreme right wingers that label everyone that isn't close to following their ideology as far leftist.   



shikamaru317 said:
TonsofPuppies said:

Considering how this decision certainly caused Disney to lose more subscribers from D+ than gain, I fail to see how this is purely monetary. Their stock took a hit immediately following the decision to fire her. They also cancelled the Cara Dune action figure which was either the highest or second highest selling figure in 2020. Explain to me how that makes them more money? And if Disney loses money from their stars having bad political takes on Twitter, how come Pedro Pascal is still employed? If you think that the people in charge of Disney aren't willing to lose a few bucks to virtue signal, YOU are the naive one.

The recent Star Wars trilogy, which became increasingly divisive with each new instalment ended up performing worse with each subsequent release at the box office. I have no doubt in my mind that the trilogy would have made more money if not for the political pandering stuffed into it. The examples are numerous. Most of the rabid extreme-left twitter crowd who "cancel" people they disagree with do not actually consume the products associated with said people. This is pretty much the case in all of these scenarios. Look at the Last of Us Part II, which was (likely) not as successful as the first game, despite having a much larger install base of players on PS4 vs PS3, plus the added benefit of being a sequel vs a new IP.

TL;DR - Companies within the entertainment industry have shown time and time again that they are willing to lose money over social justice pandering. If you haven't figured this out by now, you're clearly not paying attention.

That is why I'm not convinced that Disney's higher ups had anything to do with her firing, this is 100% on Kathleen Kennedy. I follow a youtube channel that claims to have LucasFilm inside sources, and for quite awhile he has claimed that LucasFilm is a house divided in two right now, with a Kathleen Kennedy faction and a Dave Filoni/Jon Favreau faction. 

Would that be Doomcock? 

I absolutely love his channel.



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Chris Hu said:
TonsofPuppies said:

Aren't you just the one who just made the hilarious claim that "there are no far leftists in the United States"? Lol, better be careful what you wish for, regarding being canceled for saying something stupid. If that concept was universal, you would have just been booted from these boards for life.

Again stop watching Fox news to much and snap out of your of alternate Universe the only people that think that there are actually far leftist in the USA are far right wingers; those people better never visit Europe either because in their book everyone is far leftist there.  Also the only think that is hilarious is right wingers and extreme right wingers that label everyone that isn't close to following their ideology as far leftist.   

Ah yes. The 'ol "anyone who disagrees with me watches Fox News" argument. Is this the part where I'm supposed to reply "stop watching CNN"? And yes, Europe on the whole is quite heavily left leaning. That isn't a secret to anyone that has been watching the nonsense going on in places like the UK, Germany and Sweden over the past decade. So am I a far right winger for acknowledging the reality that there are far-left people in the United States? If so, can you be so kind as to tell me exactly what my far-right views are? lol



TonsofPuppies said:
Torillian said:

Isn't a simpler explanation that they do whatever they think will make them the most money rather than "they're crazy far-left but they suck at it" when they do things that seem contradictory to your narrative. All that stuff makes perfect sense in my model where they're a company trying to make as much money as possible. Sure they can fuck up and do something that ends up losing them money, but that seems more plausible than your model in which they are circle jerk leftists but also randomly ignore some leftist issues because they simultaneously do everything for that high of being morally superior to others but also they took a black guy off a movie poster in China. 

I don't see how killing off (essentially) a fan favourite character makes disney more money. Cancelling her best-selling action figure as well? Come on now. How about the NBA? The NBA (for obvious reasons) hopped on the BLM bandwagon more than any other sports league in North America and their ratings have been in free fall ever since. This is despite the world being in the midst of a global pandemic with many people stuck at home with much more free time than usual. It's quite clear the the social justice initiative undertaken by the NBA and it's prominent stars (like LeBron James) is pushing many people away from their product. Yet, it continues.

If these entities were purely motivated by money (which I wish they were, tbh), they would keep politics out of their products all together. Politics, by their very nature, are divisive. And we're living in an era in which the divide between the political left and right is arguably the furthest it's ever been (at least in the West). Injecting identity politics into your product will not broaden it's mass market appeal. It's just a fact.

It loses them less money than if they decided to keep Gina on. That's their reasoning. They could be right or wrong, but you'd have to show me that Disney would make more money if they ignored her. The options aren't "lose money or make money" in some of these situations it's "lose money or lose more money".

NBA went all in with BLM because they're nothing without their players and that's what the players wanted to do. What would you propose the league do when their top stars like LeBron want to embrace a political movement? The players wanted to go on full on strike in solidarity with BLM, feel like they would've lost a whole lot more money if noone could watch. So again that is a case of "lose money or lose more money". If you can remake the NBA without any players who care about black issues be my guest, I'll be curious to see if anyone watches. 

Now we're talking about injecting identity politics? I thought we were talking about cancelling. 



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Torillian said:
TonsofPuppies said:

I don't see how killing off (essentially) a fan favourite character makes disney more money. Cancelling her best-selling action figure as well? Come on now. How about the NBA? The NBA (for obvious reasons) hopped on the BLM bandwagon more than any other sports league in North America and their ratings have been in free fall ever since. This is despite the world being in the midst of a global pandemic with many people stuck at home with much more free time than usual. It's quite clear the the social justice initiative undertaken by the NBA and it's prominent stars (like LeBron James) is pushing many people away from their product. Yet, it continues.

If these entities were purely motivated by money (which I wish they were, tbh), they would keep politics out of their products all together. Politics, by their very nature, are divisive. And we're living in an era in which the divide between the political left and right is arguably the furthest it's ever been (at least in the West). Injecting identity politics into your product will not broaden it's mass market appeal. It's just a fact.

It loses them less money than if they decided to keep Gina on. That's their reasoning. They could be right or wrong, but you'd have to show me that Disney would make more money if they ignored her. The options aren't "lose money or make money" in some of these situations it's "lose money or lose more money".

NBA went all in with BLM because they're nothing without their players and that's what the players wanted to do. What would you propose the league do when their top stars like LeBron want to embrace a political movement? The players wanted to go on full on strike in solidarity with BLM, feel like they would've lost a whole lot more money if noone could watch. So again that is a case of "lose money or lose more money". If you can remake the NBA without any players who care about black issues be my guest, I'll be curious to see if anyone watches. 

Now we're talking about injecting identity politics? I thought we were talking about cancelling. 

Identity politics leads to cancelling.

Identity politics -> insistence on political correctness -> violations of political correctness -> cancellation



TonsofPuppies said:

How about the NBA? The NBA (for obvious reasons) hopped on the BLM bandwagon more than any other sports league in North America and their ratings have been in free fall ever since. This is despite the world being in the midst of a global pandemic with many people stuck at home with much more free time than usual. It's quite clear the the social justice initiative undertaken by the NBA and it's prominent stars (like LeBron James) is pushing many people away from their product. Yet, it continues.

Didn't virtually every sport see a decline in viewership over the pandemic? 

Here is a sampling of those horrible numbers via Sports Media Watch:

• The 2020 Stanley Cup Playoffs averaged 953,000 viewers across NBC's TV and digital platforms. That's a 38% decrease compared to last year.

• The final round of golf's U.S. Open averaged a 2.0 rating and 3.21 million viewers for NBC, the lowest rated and least-watched final round of the tournament ever and down 55% from 2019.

• The Preakness on NBC was down 56% in viewership from 2019.

• Even when there's good news, there's bad news. Last Saturday's Tennessee-Georgia game on CBS averaged a 3.1 rating and 5.77 million viewers, making it the highest-rated and most-watched game of the season. However, the rating was still 21% lower than CBS's Week 6 SEC game in 2019. 

It was also the first game of the season to average at least a 3.0 rating. By this date in 2019, 15 college football games averaged at least a 3.0 ratings. 

• Sunday's Game 1 of the ALCS on TBS drew 2.07 million viewers. Monday's Game 2 of the ALCS drew 1.88 million viewers. These are now the two least-watched LCS games ever. The viewership numbers for the two games are down 66% from the first two games of 2019's ALCS.



TonsofPuppies said:
Torillian said:

It loses them less money than if they decided to keep Gina on. That's their reasoning. They could be right or wrong, but you'd have to show me that Disney would make more money if they ignored her. The options aren't "lose money or make money" in some of these situations it's "lose money or lose more money".

NBA went all in with BLM because they're nothing without their players and that's what the players wanted to do. What would you propose the league do when their top stars like LeBron want to embrace a political movement? The players wanted to go on full on strike in solidarity with BLM, feel like they would've lost a whole lot more money if noone could watch. So again that is a case of "lose money or lose more money". If you can remake the NBA without any players who care about black issues be my guest, I'll be curious to see if anyone watches. 

Now we're talking about injecting identity politics? I thought we were talking about cancelling. 

Identity politics leads to cancelling.

Identity politics -> insistence on political correctness -> violations of political correctness -> cancellation

So are we on to the full "get woke go broke" argument that any time a black person or other minority of some sort is "unnecessarily" on screen the company is losing money for the purpose of a political agenda? 



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