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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Bowser's Fury runs at 30 fps in portable mode

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Mr Puggsly on 03 February 2021
curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Okay, so the resolution is already on the lower side when docked.

Having an idea of the Switch can do, I imagine they could do 60 fps at 480p or maybe a little higher. Which actually wouldn't look terrible on the small screen. Also a resolution I believe Vita games aimed for in GPU heavy titles.

If I am correct, it would be nice if they gave an option but I find that unlikely. Either way, 30 fps is playable and will look great on the Switch screen.

It could be a matter of visibility; when exploring a large open world like the one in Bowser's Fury they may have found that targeting a lower resolution like 576p or 540p or something on the smaller screen made it harder to scout out distant Cat Shines and other distant details.

I am doubtful. 480p or 540p is still pretty crisp to see distant objects. And we've seen it can hold up fairly well on a small screen. We even had large scale games on 6th gen consoles and Wii.

I would need to see the game before I can really determine if 720p is essential in portable.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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curl-6 on 03 February 2021
Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

It could be a matter of visibility; when exploring a large open world like the one in Bowser's Fury they may have found that targeting a lower resolution like 576p or 540p or something on the smaller screen made it harder to scout out distant Cat Shines and other distant details.

I am doubtful. 480p or 540p is still pretty crisp to see distant objects. And we've seen it can hold up fairly well on a small screen. We even had large scale games on 6th gen consoles and Wii.

I would need to see the game before I can really determine if 720p is essential in portable.

If it was as simple as dialling down the resolution without compromising the experience, I'm sure Nintendo would have done just that. They've had first party games drop to sub-HD resolutions in portable before. Something about the makeup of Bowser's Fury in particular must have meant that performance was bottlenecked in a way that a locked 60fps just couldn't be sustained in portable mode without cutbacks that would've undermined Nintendo's vision.



Mr Puggsly on 03 February 2021
curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I am doubtful. 480p or 540p is still pretty crisp to see distant objects. And we've seen it can hold up fairly well on a small screen. We even had large scale games on 6th gen consoles and Wii.

I would need to see the game before I can really determine if 720p is essential in portable.

If it was as simple as dialling down the resolution without compromising the experience, I'm sure Nintendo would have done just that. They've had first party games drop to sub-HD resolutions in portable before. Something about the makeup of Bowser's Fury in particular must have meant that performance was bottlenecked in a way that a locked 60fps just couldn't be sustained in portable mode without cutbacks that would've undermined Nintendo's vision.

Generally lowering the resolution has been enough with most titles. While some games likely compromise other effects to keep resolution/performance a little higher. As far as I am aware the difference between docked and portable is just GPU power.

With all considered, I suspect Nintendo opted for visual fidelity.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

curl-6 on 03 February 2021
Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

If it was as simple as dialling down the resolution without compromising the experience, I'm sure Nintendo would have done just that. They've had first party games drop to sub-HD resolutions in portable before. Something about the makeup of Bowser's Fury in particular must have meant that performance was bottlenecked in a way that a locked 60fps just couldn't be sustained in portable mode without cutbacks that would've undermined Nintendo's vision.

Generally lowering the resolution has been enough with most titles. While some games likely compromise other effects to keep resolution/performance a little higher. As far as I am aware the difference between docked and portable is just GPU power.

With all considered, I suspect Nintendo opted for visual fidelity.

Prioritizing visual fidelity isn't Nintendo's MO. The compromise needed in resolution must've harmed the gameplay experience somehow; I still think the most likely candidate is that this is the biggest world in a 3D Mario game apparently and being able to pick out and distinguish distant objects in order to go and investigate might've been difficult at 540p or whatever on a 6 inch display.

I guess we'll never know for sure and we'll probably just have to agree to disagree.



Metallox on 03 February 2021
curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Generally lowering the resolution has been enough with most titles. While some games likely compromise other effects to keep resolution/performance a little higher. As far as I am aware the difference between docked and portable is just GPU power.

With all considered, I suspect Nintendo opted for visual fidelity.

Prioritizing visual fidelity isn't Nintendo's MO.

Maybe it is in Super Mario games, at least partially. Because, you know, these games tend to look splendid no matter the platform. Nintendo reached an incredible state of art with the Galaxy entries, 3D World looks beautiful despite the 720p resolution (on Wii U), and Odyssey had a weird solution in portable mode that still managed to pump up the game to 720p. From DF's analysis of SMO: 

"Portable mode is even more intriguing. When you stand still - as we did for our comparison shots from the last preview code we saw - the game presents a full 720p image, but the second you start moving, it becomes clear that the image isn't as stable as it should be. From what we can deduce, the game appears to jitter two 640x720 frames together to form a whole. And this explains why we thought cutscenes were running at this reduced resolution - when we took the snapshots for analysis, it clearly was.

But the evidence suggests that Odyssey is jittering two 640x720 images together all of the time. So in a completely static scene, we get the illusion of a full 720p image, but when Mario's idle animations kick in, our favourite plumber looks a little chunkier as he is in motion."

To me, it seems Nintendo prioritizes image clarity the best it can. And that could be due to a lasting impression on the gameplay experience that Nintendo wants to avoid, precisely. 



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

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curl-6 on 03 February 2021
Metallox said:
curl-6 said:

Prioritizing visual fidelity isn't Nintendo's MO.

Maybe it is in Super Mario games, at least partially. Because, you know, these games tend to look splendid no matter the platform. Nintendo reached an incredible state of art with the Galaxy entries, 3D World looks beautiful despite the 720p resolution (on Wii U), and Odyssey had a weird solution in portable mode that still managed to pump up the game to 720p. From DF's analysis of SMO: 

"Portable mode is even more intriguing. When you stand still - as we did for our comparison shots from the last preview code we saw - the game presents a full 720p image, but the second you start moving, it becomes clear that the image isn't as stable as it should be. From what we can deduce, the game appears to jitter two 640x720 frames together to form a whole. And this explains why we thought cutscenes were running at this reduced resolution - when we took the snapshots for analysis, it clearly was.

But the evidence suggests that Odyssey is jittering two 640x720 images together all of the time. So in a completely static scene, we get the illusion of a full 720p image, but when Mario's idle animations kick in, our favourite plumber looks a little chunkier as he is in motion."

To me, it seems Nintendo prioritizes image clarity the best it can. And that could be due to a lasting impression on the gameplay experience that Nintendo wants to avoid, precisely. 

I agree they look fantastic for their platforms, but SMO was still ultimately rendering at 640x720 or half of native 720p in portable mode though. They could've had that game run in 30fps undocked to hit full 720p but they didn't.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 03 February 2021

Mr Puggsly on 03 February 2021
curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Generally lowering the resolution has been enough with most titles. While some games likely compromise other effects to keep resolution/performance a little higher. As far as I am aware the difference between docked and portable is just GPU power.

With all considered, I suspect Nintendo opted for visual fidelity.

Prioritizing visual fidelity isn't Nintendo's MO. The compromise needed in resolution must've harmed the gameplay experience somehow; I still think the most likely candidate is that this is the biggest world in a 3D Mario game apparently and being able to pick out and distinguish distant objects in order to go and investigate might've been difficult at 540p or whatever on a 6 inch display.

I guess we'll never know for sure and we'll probably just have to agree to disagree.

Again, I am reserving some judgement until we get the final game.

But part of Mario 64 was looking at distant objects in 240p. Mario Sunshine was large in scale at 480p. Then we've got many examples of large scale portable games running at 480p or less.

As a few posts before this mentioned Mario Odyssey used a technique to improve image fidelity while maintaining 60 fps. Shame they didn't offer something like that for Bowser's Fury.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

curl-6 on 03 February 2021
Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

Prioritizing visual fidelity isn't Nintendo's MO. The compromise needed in resolution must've harmed the gameplay experience somehow; I still think the most likely candidate is that this is the biggest world in a 3D Mario game apparently and being able to pick out and distinguish distant objects in order to go and investigate might've been difficult at 540p or whatever on a 6 inch display.

I guess we'll never know for sure and we'll probably just have to agree to disagree.

Again, I am reserving some judgement until we get the final game.

But part of Mario 64 was looking at distant objects in 240p. Mario Sunshine was large in scale at 480p. Then we've got many examples of large scale portable games running at 480p or less.

As a few posts before this mentioned Mario Odyssey used a technique to improve image fidelity while maintaining 60 fps. Shame they didn't offer something like that for Bowser's Fury.

Visibility on big/complex games running at lower resolutions on Switch definitely suffers, I can attest to this from personal experience. I'm just theorizing here, clearly they had the option of going with a low resolution and 60fps, something about the gaming experience they were trying deliver just must've worked better at 720p/30fps.



Mr Puggsly on 04 February 2021
curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Again, I am reserving some judgement until we get the final game.

But part of Mario 64 was looking at distant objects in 240p. Mario Sunshine was large in scale at 480p. Then we've got many examples of large scale portable games running at 480p or less.

As a few posts before this mentioned Mario Odyssey used a technique to improve image fidelity while maintaining 60 fps. Shame they didn't offer something like that for Bowser's Fury.

Visibility on big/complex games running at lower resolutions on Switch definitely suffers, I can attest to this from personal experience. I'm just theorizing here, clearly they had the option of going with a low resolution and 60fps, something about the gaming experience they were trying deliver just must've worked better at 720p/30fps.

Given the lack of options we just have to believe Nintendo's vision is best.

My gripe isn't just with Nintendo by the way. I just get annoyed when developers don't give us choices when what we want seems feasible. More games given visual and performance options is a great thing.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly on 05 February 2021
Mar1217 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Given the lack of options we just have to believe Nintendo's vision is best.

My gripe isn't just with Nintendo by the way. I just get annoyed when developers don't give us choices when what we want seems feasible. More games given visual and performance options is a great thing.

I know what you want to reference but technically, you are given the options of visual and performance here : docked or undocked :P

I have a Lite, so I dock nuffin.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)