By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Movies & TV - Godzilla vs Kong

curl-6 said:
JWeinCom said:

I'm sure they wouldn't, but I question why not. Honestly, the rest of the stuff was pretty boring and really not worth the time I spent watching it.

It's like paying for a burger and a plateful of green peppers (or insert a food that you dislike) that you'd have to eat, vs paying for just the burger.

Well, speaking just for myself as a kaiju fan who watches the films primarily for the monsters, I still prefer them to come packaged in a full length movie to give the monsters context and establish the world and story around them. I didn't find the human drama in this particular film very compelling but I'm still glad there was some to provide a setup, otherwise it would've felt rather disconnected and incomplete.

I felt completely bored during most parts that weren't fights. And I don't think the context added that much to it. This wasn't the tragic tale of two beings with different ideas on how to create a better world ultimately left with no way to reconcile their visions and succumbing to their violent impulses, all the while losing sight of the world each sought to create. It was more like "you big, me big, let's fight."

Honestly I probably wouldn't pay for it either way (saw it on HBO max), and I likely would have felt a bit ripped off if I paid to see it in theatres. But, if I had to pay to watch either watch a 15 minute version with just the fights or pay the same amount to sit through the fights and everything else, then I'd rather just see the fights then have to sit through the rest.

Except I might accept the scenes with Maia in them. Not that they really added much to the story but she was very attractive.



Around the Network
mZuzek said:
curl-6 said:

Well, speaking just for myself as a kaiju fan who watches the films primarily for the monsters, I still prefer them to come packaged in a full length movie to give the monsters context and establish the world and story around them. I didn't find the human drama in this particular film very compelling but I'm still glad there was some to provide a setup, otherwise it would've felt rather disconnected and incomplete.

One thing about this... from these recent movies, I felt like King of the Monsters was really good at telling a story just between the monsters. They were so expressive and the ways they looked at each other and interacted with one another felt really real, I think if you were to remove the humans entirely, you'd still be left with an understandable 'story'. Can't say I felt the same way about this one.

Yeah KotM was really good at that, which is why I think  I might like it the best of the Legendary Godzilla trilogy, (though Godzilla 2014 is great too) it was a real crowd pleaser and understood that a key draw of kaiju films is the monsters have personality. That said, I personally feel all three films understood and successfully did this, KotM just did it best.

JWeinCom said:
curl-6 said:

Well, speaking just for myself as a kaiju fan who watches the films primarily for the monsters, I still prefer them to come packaged in a full length movie to give the monsters context and establish the world and story around them. I didn't find the human drama in this particular film very compelling but I'm still glad there was some to provide a setup, otherwise it would've felt rather disconnected and incomplete.

I felt completely bored during most parts that weren't fights. And I don't think the context added that much to it. This wasn't the tragic tale of two beings with different ideas on how to create a better world ultimately left with no way to reconcile their visions and succumbing to their violent impulses, all the while losing sight of the world each sought to create. It was more like "you big, me big, let's fight."

Honestly I probably wouldn't pay for it either way (saw it on HBO max), and I likely would have felt a bit ripped off if I paid to see it in theatres. But, if I had to pay to watch either watch a 15 minute version with just the fights or pay the same amount to sit through the fights and everything else, then I'd rather just see the fights then have to sit through the rest.

Except I might accept the scenes with Maia in them. Not that they really added much to the story but she was very attractive.

Different strokes for different folks I guess; I can't say I was particularly enraptured by the human scenes in this film, but as a genre fan I view them as a necessary component of the formula.



curl-6 said:
mZuzek said:

One thing about this... from these recent movies, I felt like King of the Monsters was really good at telling a story just between the monsters. They were so expressive and the ways they looked at each other and interacted with one another felt really real, I think if you were to remove the humans entirely, you'd still be left with an understandable 'story'. Can't say I felt the same way about this one.

Yeah KotM was really good at that, which is why I think  I might like it the best of the Legendary Godzilla trilogy, (though Godzilla 2014 is great too) it was a real crowd pleaser and understood that a key draw of kaiju films is the monsters have personality. That said, I personally feel all three films understood and successfully did this, KotM just did it best.

JWeinCom said:

I felt completely bored during most parts that weren't fights. And I don't think the context added that much to it. This wasn't the tragic tale of two beings with different ideas on how to create a better world ultimately left with no way to reconcile their visions and succumbing to their violent impulses, all the while losing sight of the world each sought to create. It was more like "you big, me big, let's fight."

Honestly I probably wouldn't pay for it either way (saw it on HBO max), and I likely would have felt a bit ripped off if I paid to see it in theatres. But, if I had to pay to watch either watch a 15 minute version with just the fights or pay the same amount to sit through the fights and everything else, then I'd rather just see the fights then have to sit through the rest.

Except I might accept the scenes with Maia in them. Not that they really added much to the story but she was very attractive.

Different strokes for different folks I guess; I can't say I was particularly enraptured by the human scenes in this film, but as a genre fan I view them as a necessary component of the formula.

I'm not suggesting that humans in a kaiju movie are a bad thing. 

If I cared about the humans and the world they inhabited, then those scenes would make me care more about the outcome of the battles.

The problem is in this particular movie, the human scenes failed to do so, and therefore really served no purpose. 

Basically...

Kaiju Fights + compelling or at least likable human characters >> Just Kaiju Fights >>> Kaiju Fights + boring unmemorable human characters



JWeinCom said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah KotM was really good at that, which is why I think  I might like it the best of the Legendary Godzilla trilogy, (though Godzilla 2014 is great too) it was a real crowd pleaser and understood that a key draw of kaiju films is the monsters have personality. That said, I personally feel all three films understood and successfully did this, KotM just did it best.

JWeinCom said:

I felt completely bored during most parts that weren't fights. And I don't think the context added that much to it. This wasn't the tragic tale of two beings with different ideas on how to create a better world ultimately left with no way to reconcile their visions and succumbing to their violent impulses, all the while losing sight of the world each sought to create. It was more like "you big, me big, let's fight."

Honestly I probably wouldn't pay for it either way (saw it on HBO max), and I likely would have felt a bit ripped off if I paid to see it in theatres. But, if I had to pay to watch either watch a 15 minute version with just the fights or pay the same amount to sit through the fights and everything else, then I'd rather just see the fights then have to sit through the rest.

Except I might accept the scenes with Maia in them. Not that they really added much to the story but she was very attractive.

Different strokes for different folks I guess; I can't say I was particularly enraptured by the human scenes in this film, but as a genre fan I view them as a necessary component of the formula.

I'm not suggesting that humans in a kaiju movie are a bad thing. 

If I cared about the humans and the world they inhabited, then those scenes would make me care more about the outcome of the battles.

The problem is in this particular movie, the human scenes failed to do so, and therefore really served no purpose. 

Basically...

Kaiju Fights + compelling or at least likable human characters >> Just Kaiju Fights >>> Kaiju Fights + boring unmemorable human characters

I agree that the humans and their story in this one were quite boring. I just personally still need some kind of setup and scenario building around the monsters though, to give them context and meaning within the world.



curl-6 said:
JWeinCom said:

I'm not suggesting that humans in a kaiju movie are a bad thing. 

If I cared about the humans and the world they inhabited, then those scenes would make me care more about the outcome of the battles.

The problem is in this particular movie, the human scenes failed to do so, and therefore really served no purpose. 

Basically...

Kaiju Fights + compelling or at least likable human characters >> Just Kaiju Fights >>> Kaiju Fights + boring unmemorable human characters

I agree that the humans and their story in this one were quite boring. I just personally still need some kind of setup and scenario building around the monsters though, to give them context and meaning within the world.

Well alright then. We're going in circles so we'll have to agree to disagree.



Around the Network

Humans in this film just served to move the plot and it was perfectly fine. The previous 2 films had bullshit family drama. In Godzilla vs Kong, the humans had small-scale sets and scenes just to advance the plot. Left the large scale for the monsters.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Leynos said:

Humans in this film just served to move the plot and it was perfectly fine. The previous 2 films had bullshit family drama. In Godzilla vs Kong, the humans had small-scale sets and scenes just to advance the plot. Left the large scale for the monsters.

I am pretty much on this opinion.  The human scenes did exactly what they were designed to do which is move the story points along.  Its was the backdrop to the main characters which was Kong and Godzilla.  I thought the human scenes were fine and to be honest after watching many kaiju movies since the first one when I was a child, pretty much stayed to canon.  While KOTM is still my favorite, this movie was still a good addition to the arch and keeps me interested to see what they do next. 

Spoiler!
Hell, I was all for Godzilla to be crowed the Champion but they actually made we feel that if Kong got the win, I would have been ok.  The battles I felt were definitely better done in this movie than KOTM and showed the strength of both Godzilla and Kong.  

I would say this movie did a good job with both Kong and Godzilla as far as personalities wise but they probably could have dedicated a few more scenes to develop Godzilla.  You feel in this movie you get a better understanding of Kong and Godzilla has that big brother I can still kick your ass mentality.

Now all we need is to bring Pacific Rim and this monster movie arch into the same universe for some Mech, Kaiju action.



Jaicee said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

This is the closest I could find to a whimsical Godzilla with fairies.

So you've never heard of Mothra vs. Godzilla before? Or any of the Mothra movies? You know, the island fairies who serve as Mothra's twin priestesses? ...And you call yourself a fan!

(Not that I don't enjoy the short before Godzilla 1985 you highlighted mind you. )

Heh, I really don't call myself a fan.  More like a bored person who watches hoping they will be somewhat entertained.



Personally, I thought the human components were fine in all the Legendary Pictures Godzilla films; they were far from Citizen Kane but they served their purpose, which is par for the course when it comes to the kaiju genre.

I actually found GvK the weakest of the three in this regard as there was nobody with the gravitas of Ken Watanabe or Brian Cranston this time around, or strong supporting actors like Sally Hawkins or Zhang Ziyi, but all the same, they got the job done.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 10 April 2021

The_Liquid_Laser said:
Jaicee said:

So you've never heard of Mothra vs. Godzilla before? Or any of the Mothra movies? You know, the island fairies who serve as Mothra's twin priestesses? ...And you call yourself a fan!

(Not that I don't enjoy the short before Godzilla 1985 you highlighted mind you. )

Heh, I really don't call myself a fan.  More like a bored person who watches hoping they will be somewhat entertained.

I see.

Personally, I rank Godzilla films in four tiers.

Tier 1: Top-tier Godzilla films are meaningful and relevant entries that do much more than just entertain. They capture a sense of the Japanese psyche and the traumas and struggles of its people at various points in their history using kaiju as powerful metaphors. They're genuine art films. This tier includes three films, each from a different generation of Godzilla movies: the original Gojira (1954), Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991), and Shin Godzilla (2016). These are the real masterpieces. These aren't just good Godzilla movies -- movies that are good by the standards of this particular franchise -- they're good movies, period.

Tier 2: Second-tier Godzilla movies are entries that aspire to tier 1 art film status, but fall a bit short of being true masterpieces. Examples of films I classify as tier 2 include Mothra vs. Godzilla, The Return of Godzilla, Godzilla (2014), Godzilla vs. Hedorah, Terror of Mechagodzilla, and some others. These are still issue-driven, evocative movies, but maybe rely on contrivance too much or lean equally on pure entertainment value in a way that can distract and lift some weight from the core narrative.

Tier 3: Third-tier Godzilla movies for me are entries that exist purely to entertain. This describes the majority of Godzilla films really, including Godzilla vs. Kong, most entries in the Champion series of Godzilla movies, and many others. These movies do not constitute serious art, but are often (including in the case of Godzilla vs. Kong) genuinely fun to watch. My first Godzilla movie, Godzilla vs. Megalon, qualified in this category. I was appropriately seven years old at the time, so really the ideal age for that movie. I remember how I used to watch it back then: I thought the human interactions in the movie were dumb and boring, so I'd typically fast-forward through them to get to the monster scenes, whereupon me and my best friend at the time Casey would play-act as various monsters on-screen, pretending to control them like it was a video game. Typically, I'd assume the role of Godzilla and physically act out his parts and Casey would assume the role typically of Jet Jaguar and act out his. It was fun. The difference between this and a tier 2 movie of the same era like Terror of Mechagodzilla for example is that I would rarely fast-forward through the human interactions in the likes of Terror of Mechagodzilla because, even at the relatively young age of 11 when I first saw the latter, I wasn't bored by them. I wanted to see the whole movie, not just the monster scenes.

Tier 4: These are the genuinely bad Godzilla movies I don't enjoy watching. Mostly this category consists of films that seriously pretend to be weighty art movies but don't actually have anything to say and resultantly are highly pretentious and annoying. Godzilla Raids Again, Godzilla (1998), and Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) are examples of tier 4 Godzilla movies in my book. The worst of the worst, not worthy of your time.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 10 April 2021