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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft: Xbox Series S and X only next-gen consoles with full RDNA 2 feature set

LudicrousSpeed said:
sales2099 said:

This would be a acceptable narrative pivot. In the end devs who put in the talent and time and make amazing things.

Except there’s still a sizeable portion of apologists online who insist PS5 might somehow kinda maybe sorta have the specs advantage over Series X. 

The goal posts never stop shifting. There are people still claiming PS5 is actually more advanced than RDNA2 and that’s why MS can say X|S are the only full RDNA2 consoles, that PS5 is actually beyond it. Best to ignore such delusions, they exist in every fan base. 

How about using some research first before attacking other people. With PS4 Sony showcased their architecture and they introduced ACE (Asynchronous Compute Engine) units from their GCN based GPU which eventually made its way into AMD's next cards. Rapid-Packed Math (or FP16) on the PS4 Pro made its way into AMD's VEGA lineup a year later.

Its not far fetched to guess that Sony will have worked with AMD to create a new technology. We've seen it this last current generation of consoles and graphics cards.

RGT who has been almost deadly accurate with AMD leaks has been touting RNDA 3 feature for months and is still sticking to it. Its either something in the GE or the cache scrubbers in the PS5, is my guess. FYI no announced RDNA device announced apart from PS5 has cache scrubbers so there is one at least.

Anyway all these RDNA talks are silly. Its mostly down to the developer that makes use of these tools. Both are as capable as each other. It doesn't matter if its RDNA 1, 2, 3 or 4 as long as they deliver a good result.

Last edited by hinch - on 31 October 2020

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hinch said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

The goal posts never stop shifting. There are people still claiming PS5 is actually more advanced than RDNA2 and that’s why MS can say X|S are the only full RDNA2 consoles, that PS5 is actually beyond it. Best to ignore such delusions, they exist in every fan base. 

How about using some research first before attacking other people. With PS4 Sony showcased their architecture and they introduced ACE (Asynchronous Compute Engine) units from their GCN based GPU which eventually made its way into AMD's next cards. Rapid-Packed Math (or FP16) on the PS4 Pro made its way into AMD's VEGA lineup a year later.

Its not far fetched to guess that Sony will have worked with AMD to create a new technology. We've seen it this last current generation of consoles and graphics cards.

RGT who has been almost deadly accurate with AMD leaks has been touting RNDA 3 feature for months and is still sticking to it. Its either something in the GE or the cache scrubbers in the PS5, is my guess. FYI no announced RDNA device announced apart from PS5 has cache scrubbers so there is one at least.

Anyway all these RDNA talks are silly. Its mostly down to the developer that makes use of these tools. Both are as capable as each other. It doesn't matter if its RDNA 1, 2, 3 or 4 as long as they deliver a good result.

Who am I attacking exactly, besides irrational fanboys?  

I agree, both MS and Sony have probably worked with AMD and created new technology and techniques. There is also the possibility that either console does one thing or another better than techniques that are a part of RDNA2. My point wasn’t that people are wrong if they are talking about PS5 doing something better than AMD, but more towards the people who believe Sony has a suite of tech in the GE that blows RDNA2 away. Go to any forum where this is being discussed, especially GAF, you’ll find plenty of these delusional people. And like I said, they’re on all sides. Xbone has secret sauce too.

I also agree that none of this really matters. Nintendo is putting out the best software around imho and they have much weaker hardware. I don’t agree about RGT though. Repeating stuff other credible leakers have leaked doesn’t really make you a credible leaker as well.



People acting like the Medium has no footage whatsoever and instead comparing Scorn to DSR. 



@LudicrousSpeed Its not about doing anything better, its about the feature set. They are collaborating, just like with Microsoft and AMD. What people don't understand is that GPU features are taped out in advance. GPU feature sets would have been disclosed to both parties. Sony decided to customize the architecture to fit their development needs and wants. Microsoft also did some customizations of their own. AMD can use technologies to both.

Nah RGT he was dead on with Big Navi leaks. Down to names of specific RDNA 2 features like 'Infinite Cache' and size, specs, clock speeds and benchmarks. He has to have at least one higher up source at AMD privy to that information. Was also right about MGS rereleasing on PC days before launch.



KratosLives said:

We know ps5 has cache scrubbers to free up resources,also AMD smartshift,  we don;t know if series x implements it. Can someone explain how vrs is different than partially resident textures technology back from 2011.

Smartshift isn't going to be needed for the Xbox Series X.

Smartshift is essentially a technology that dynamically allocates power to the CPU or GPU on a per-needs basis, so if the GPU is being pegged and a developer asks for it, more energy can be funneled to the GPU rather than the CPU in order to bolster clockrates.

It's not needed on the Series X because Microsoft guarantees it's clocks.

Variable Rate Shading is a technique that reduces the shading quality where there is allot of movement/blur or where the eye isn't going to be focusing on in order to increase performance.
I.E. There is no point having a material shader on the road in the bottom left corner of the screen when your car is moving so fast that it blurs it anyway.

Partially Resident Textures is AMD breaking down the textures into smaller tiles and only loading the higher quality tiles when necessary to save on memory/performance... Think of it as an extension and evolution of Megatexturing in Rage, but also done entirely in hardware.

hinch said:

How about using some research first before attacking other people. With PS4 Sony showcased their architecture and they introduced ACE (Asynchronous Compute Engine) units from their GCN based GPU which eventually made its way into AMD's next cards. Rapid-Packed Math (or FP16) on the PS4 Pro made its way into AMD's VEGA lineup a year later.

Graphics Core Next had ACE units before the Playstation 4.
The Playstation 4 just increased the number of them, AMD desktop GPU's eventually followed that paradigm.

As for FP16/Half Precision... AMD's first GPU with that support was actually the Radeon R9 285 which beats the Playstation 4 by a couple years.
AMD wasn't packing two FP16 operations together though it was single rate, that didn't happen until Vega, but this was a path that AMD was always heading down.

Either way, Rapid Packed Math and the ACE units aren't a Sony invention, Sony and Microsoft probably are not allowed access to the low-level architectural ISA of AMD's GPU's due to patenting and security. - They can work closely with AMD and suggest ideas/improvements for their semi-custom designs, but that will probably be it.
AMD, Intel or nVidia having one of their designs leaked would absolutely be catastrophic, especially if China or some sorts managed to nab the design.

We also need to keep in mind that it takes many many years for a GPU design to happen, AMD and nVidia actually have multiple development teams who iterate and refine their designs so that we get improvements on a yearly cadence, thus many design goals (I.E. ACE units and Rapid Packed Math) would have been on the development pathway for years before Sony or Microsoft ever came along.







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Yeah I never said it was Sony's invention. I was saying that engineers of multiple companies would have collaborated on GPU functions and iterations of technology.

Anyway the "full RNDA 2" feature is dumb marketing since Series X is missing Infinity Cache, which is a major feature of RDNA 2.

Last edited by hinch - on 31 October 2020

eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:

This would be a acceptable narrative pivot. In the end devs who put in the talent and time and make amazing things.

Except there’s still a sizeable portion of apologists online who insist PS5 might somehow kinda maybe sorta have the specs advantage over Series X. 

That sounds like what you think they are saying. Seems very clearly to me that post here are just saying that the power gap xbox fans seem to think they have is much smaller than what they think. Most ps fans know that there is a hardware advantage. And yes, like Jumpinbeans said, sony will push a lot harder so at least in the exclusive front, sony will have the edge almost guaranty. 

Except I agree with that assertion. Series X having some combination of resolution edge or FPS edge or hardware RT as opposed to old fashioned RT per multiplat release isn’t mind blowing differences. But it is a difference. 

I just would like to say Xbox has better hardware without being questioned on it. Which Xbox gamers still are. But it’s been literally 6 months of pulling teeth to make this claim. You have people who say power doesn’t matter in a console and yet they are apologists for their peers who literally can’t have the power narrative not be theirs. If roles were reversed the topic would have been settled at the spec reveals for each months ago. Don’t you see the double standard? 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Like jim ryan said " Let the games do the talking" and so far, it aint looking good for xbox.



sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:

That sounds like what you think they are saying. Seems very clearly to me that post here are just saying that the power gap xbox fans seem to think they have is much smaller than what they think. Most ps fans know that there is a hardware advantage. And yes, like Jumpinbeans said, sony will push a lot harder so at least in the exclusive front, sony will have the edge almost guaranty. 

Except I agree with that assertion. Series X having some combination of resolution edge or FPS edge or hardware RT as opposed to old fashioned RT per multiplat release isn’t mind blowing differences. But it is a difference. 

I just would like to say Xbox has better hardware without being questioned on it. Which Xbox gamers still are. But it’s been literally 6 months of pulling teeth to make this claim. You have people who say power doesn’t matter in a console and yet they are apologists for their peers who literally can’t have the power narrative not be theirs. If roles were reversed the topic would have been settled at the spec reveals for each months ago. Don’t you see the double standard? 

Had The gap been like ps4 vs  x1 I would say that the gap would be notisable and might matter, but this 15% really wont matter. That there are fans that would twist things if the roles where reverse? Sure. Im pretty sure that would happen. Its the internet. But lets be honest here and really addres the discusions people have been having for years here not just the last 6 months. But xbox fans have atributed the entirety of the x1 collapse on the reveal and then claiming its power gap. Then for the last 6 mothns they went to claim that now they have the power gap they are gona see results like the ps4 had while the gap this time is ingsignificant and the most notable titles that pushed the consoles where sony first party. Its like every year GOTY, and other graphically intensive title is like a sony game first and foremost. Not even rockstar could top them. So lets be honest here, that 15% gap will mean nothing for this gen as long as sony have the top devs in the industry. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:

That sounds like what you think they are saying. Seems very clearly to me that post here are just saying that the power gap xbox fans seem to think they have is much smaller than what they think. Most ps fans know that there is a hardware advantage. And yes, like Jumpinbeans said, sony will push a lot harder so at least in the exclusive front, sony will have the edge almost guaranty. 

Except I agree with that assertion. Series X having some combination of resolution edge or FPS edge or hardware RT as opposed to old fashioned RT per multiplat release isn’t mind blowing differences. But it is a difference. 

I just would like to say Xbox has better hardware without being questioned on it. Which Xbox gamers still are. But it’s been literally 6 months of pulling teeth to make this claim. You have people who say power doesn’t matter in a console and yet they are apologists for their peers who literally can’t have the power narrative not be theirs. If roles were reversed the topic would have been settled at the spec reveals for each months ago. Don’t you see the double standard? 

That depends on what the criteria is though. Is it more powerful? Undoubtedly, Yes.

There's many other variables to be taken into account though with an all encompassing and sweeping statement like that. Including the actual design of the hardware and controller, the subsequent result of using said hardware in software and the user experience. So no, generalising to that degree you will obviously run into plenty of people who will disagree with that statement, particularly at this stage.