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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Backwards Compatibility: The NeverEnding Story

CladInShadows said:

Yes, component is good, and certainly better than composite.  But no, it's not as good as HDMI, at least specifically in terms of PS2 vs PS3. I had the PS2 component cable back in the day. It only outputs at 480p. It was an obvious improvement when I got the PS3 and started playing my PS2 games there, even if it was only upscaled.  It's a cleaner image.  And that's even before talking about the convenience of having audio and video in one, being able to play all your games on one system, not having to buy converters, extra cables, etc.

My PC is hooked up to the same TV as my consoles, so unless Sony throws us a bone for BC, I'll probably stick to emulation (of my legally purchased PS2 games, of course).

Audio being separate is a pro for me, hdmi is a step backwards imo. Always trouble with it. My PC will only output stereo over HDMI, My receiver has no 4K pass through so I'm limited to ARC which is limited to lossy 5.1 instead of PCM (which admittedly is a limitation of toslink as well from ps2). Sometimes the sound randomly cuts out or the picture goes black for a second for no reason, or my amp and ps4 get into an endless handshaking cycle, no sound just blinking between formats. I've never had any of those issues with component video and digital audio. Of course component video tops out at 1080p and digital audio (AC3 or toslink) don't support linear PCM beyond 2.0

My ps2 looks great on my 4K tv (my phat ps3 died as well, no ps2 BC anymore) through component video. I hardly ever use it though, but my kids were going through Baldurs gate alliance and Champions of Norrath for a while, still looked gorgeous. We need sequals to those, split-screen co-op hack 'n slash is always fun.



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There are many reasons why PC is my main platform by a large margin. One of the reasons is backwards compatibility.

OneTime said:
Is anyone really buying a PS5 to play PS4 games?

Backward compatibility is largely driven by what hardware upgrades a console gets. PS4 and PS5 both contain standard PC parts: an x64 processor with AMD GPU, so you can do backward compatibility fairly easily. The PS3 had a custom IBM Cell processor so it couldn't.

From a consumer's perspective, if you already have a PS4 then you don't need PS5 to play PS4 games. When you upgrade, you probably want to play PS5 games anyway. If you want to sell your PS4 for money, you'll need to include a pile of games to make it worthwhile. So backwards compatibility actually doesn't actually matter much more than a advertising checkbox if you think through it...

Of course no one's going to buy a PS5 to play PS4 games, at least not in a long time (if ever). However, being able to play older games is quite convenient, because then you don't need several consoles for playing older games. I don't know about you, but my living room has only so much space for consoles, and isn't getting smaller - quite the opposite in fact. I simply can't keep every console ready to play or even reserve room for a console because I don't have enough suitable room for that. I already have PS3 and PS4 taking up most of the space, so yes, backwards compatability is pretty big. I also have some PS2 games I'd like to play some time but alas, there's no room for a PS2 as well.

Backwards compatibility is handled really poorly on most consoles at the moment, except for Microsoft's (and trust me, I have no love for Microsoft, but I do appreciate what they've done with backwards compatibility even though I don't own any Xbox console). Poor backwards compatibility on Sony's consoles is a major reason why I'm not interested in a new PlayStation whenever one comes out, and it affects how much I'm willing to pay for a console. It's also why PC has cemented its place so strongly as my main platform - I simply have no trust in longevity on Sony's platforms. Especially after Sony sold PS1 games on Store for PS3, the lack of PS1 support on PS4 was a huge disappointment for me - and I'm also quite disappointed by the lack of PS2 support on PS3 and PS4.



SvennoJ said:
CladInShadows said:

Yes, component is good, and certainly better than composite.  But no, it's not as good as HDMI, at least specifically in terms of PS2 vs PS3. I had the PS2 component cable back in the day. It only outputs at 480p. It was an obvious improvement when I got the PS3 and started playing my PS2 games there, even if it was only upscaled.  It's a cleaner image.  And that's even before talking about the convenience of having audio and video in one, being able to play all your games on one system, not having to buy converters, extra cables, etc.

My PC is hooked up to the same TV as my consoles, so unless Sony throws us a bone for BC, I'll probably stick to emulation (of my legally purchased PS2 games, of course).

Audio being separate is a pro for me, hdmi is a step backwards imo. Always trouble with it. My PC will only output stereo over HDMI, My receiver has no 4K pass through so I'm limited to ARC which is limited to lossy 5.1 instead of PCM (which admittedly is a limitation of toslink as well from ps2). Sometimes the sound randomly cuts out or the picture goes black for a second for no reason, or my amp and ps4 get into an endless handshaking cycle, no sound just blinking between formats. I've never had any of those issues with component video and digital audio. Of course component video tops out at 1080p and digital audio (AC3 or toslink) don't support linear PCM beyond 2.0

My ps2 looks great on my 4K tv (my phat ps3 died as well, no ps2 BC anymore) through component video. I hardly ever use it though, but my kids were going through Baldurs gate alliance and Champions of Norrath for a while, still looked gorgeous. We need sequals to those, split-screen co-op hack 'n slash is always fun.

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, the last time I had an actual PS2, I didn't even have a 1080p TV, let alone a 4K TV. So I could always change my tune.

I don't run into those issues with HDMI audio.  Of course, you need an actual 4K60 pass through receiver.  And my gaming video card (1080ti) does allow 5.1 audio.  I used to run toslink from my PS3 way back when, but that changed when I got HDMI passthrough. I seriously have everything running through it (PC, cable box, Playstation, XBOX, FPGA consoles, NES/SNES/Genesis Mini, Switch, etc.  Even my OUYA!!).  I ran out of HDMI ports, but I tossed an HDMI switch on one of those ports and I'm good to go. Audio works flawlessly no matter which input I make active.

The reason I want BC with the PS2 is that there's so many good games that I haven't played from that era.  I don't always go back to it, but it's go so many great games that it almost feels like a crime to ignore it just because it's old.



Finally watched the video.

I've always been interested in backwards compatibility. Didn't use it on GBA because old school Gameboy games aged too badly. Kinda used it on PS2 but that didn't last long because PS1 games aged like shit, even though they looked better on PS2. Same for Wii games on Wii U and most other systems. Even original Xbox games on Xbox 360 were just outdated. I mostly played Conker. Tried a few other games but technology moves fast. GameCube games on Wii didn't really do much for me, either.

When I got a Vita, that kinda changed. I played a ton of PSP games on my Vita because PSP games still looked good. I think the 7th gen is where leaps finally started slowing down and things reached a point where they just look good from that point forward. Games from that gen still have online support, etc. In fact, 8th gen often felt like a prettier version of the 7th gen. Xbox 360, PS3, and Wii U (I know it's 8th gen) games still look good. I LOVE playing 7th gen games on my Switch and I love playing 7th gen games on my Xbox One. Hell, a huge portion of my 8th gen library is just remastered versions of 7th gen games.

I just have to say that, as we move forward, I think that BC is more important than it's ever been. It's not love going from VHS to DVD, it's more like going from DVD to Blu-ray... except that in some circumstances, you get a free upgrade.

Would I buy an Xbox SX or PS5 to play 8th gen games? Nope. But will I play 8th gen games on my 9th gen hardware? Hell yeah! In fact, I'm kinda excited to see what they can do! Plus me being "all digital" makes it just that much easier.



Twitter: @d21lewis

d21lewis said:

I've always been interested in backwards compatibility. Didn't use it on GBA because old school Gameboy games aged too badly. Kinda used it on PS2 but that didn't last long because PS1 games aged like shit, even though they looked better on PS2. Same for Wii games on Wii U and most other systems. Even original Xbox games on Xbox 360 were just outdated. I mostly played Conker. Tried a few other games but technology moves fast. GameCube games on Wii didn't really do much for me, either.

When I got a Vita, that kinda changed. I played a ton of PSP games on my Vita because PSP games still looked good. I think the 7th gen is where leaps finally started slowing down and things reached a point where they just look good from that point forward. Games from that gen still have online support, etc. In fact, 8th gen often felt like a prettier version of the 7th gen. Xbox 360, PS3, and Wii U (I know it's 8th gen) games still look good. I LOVE playing 7th gen games on my Switch and I love playing 7th gen games on my Xbox One. Hell, a huge portion of my 8th gen library is just remastered versions of 7th gen games.

You do make a good point Lewis, as game titles experience even further diminishing returns having BC is a nice feature to have, specially if the games can easily have improved performance due to their scalable design nature. Still publishers would rather resell remasters, right?



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Bc is probably the biggest feature for me, I bought +100 xbox /xbox360 games on my xone, it is hard to say no when a game is on sale for 3.59€ and you have great memories with it. Their are games like Gears that are fun for me to replay all of them but on plenty of occassions when I play a game that has prequels Ratched and Clank/Persona/FF and so on I wish I could play the older games aswell. It seems like a no brainer to release for example chrono trigger/FI-FIV/Chrono Cross also on consoles and have it playable years down the line.






CladInShadows said:
Backwards compatibility is important to me, and I do use it quite a bit. I wish the PS5 was fully BC for a couple reasons:

1. I originally had a fat 60GB PS3. It was glorious. I could play PS1, PS2, and PS3 games, all through HDMI. Unfortunately, it started displaying graphical glitches after a while. So I had to replace it with a PS3 that no longer has BC with the PS2. W had also previously sold the PS2 since we no longer needed it. I would happily go with a 60GB PS3 and PS5 as my all encompassing solution, but buying one of those used today is really just gambling that it will last.

2. Even if I did have a PS2, the best that thing can output is component. Aside from the fact that component is considerably lower quality than HDMI, most TVs today don't even have component ports anymore. It is increasingly difficult to actually play a PS2 today.

Right now, I resort to emulation on my PC for my PS2 needs, which is pretty good, but not perfect. Would be nice if Sony provided a method.

If you ever do acquire a PS2, I have really liked this brand of HDMI converters: https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Cable-Sony-PlayStation-Models-2/dp/B083RY5NZH/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2TXJ17KPZB8W5&dchild=1&keywords=kaico+ps2+hdmi&qid=1603389855&sprefix=kaico%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-5

I have its Dreamcast HDMI adapter, and it does wonders.

On topic: I think my postings in the annual games beaten thread more than demonstrates that I use BC quite a bit. If I were to get a PS5, it actually would be, in large part, to play PS4 games. And, while I have no intention of getting a PS5 in the foreseeable future, if Sony was to release a PS5 that was fully BC and still reliable (just in case the introduction of hardware and emulators in some way made the system unreliable), I would buy it day 1...even if it were more expensive. It's not because I don't have a PS4, a PS3, a PS2, and a PS1 (I do have all of those currently); it's because one system with all saves stored and graphics up-scaled is convenient and enjoyable and keeps alive the possibility that I will be able to find a machine to play these games in perpetuity.



Currently Playing (So the world might be mended):

PlayStation 4: PlayStation 3: PlayStation Portable: PlayStation Vita:
Resident Evil: Revelations 2 (Raid Mode) Tokyo Jungle Valkyria Chronicles III

Soul Sacrifice: Delta

Transistor (Platinum run) Doom 3: BFG Edition PC:

Natural Doctrine

Salt & Sanctuary Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker HD Death's Gambit
Deadly Premonition: DC Deus Ex: The Fall



super_etecoon said:

Hmmm

Another never ending story:



@Twitter | Switch | Steam

You say tomato, I say tomato 

"¡Viva la Ñ!"