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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Future of Physical Media in consoles - end of disks?

TheBraveGallade on 21 October 2020
Alby_da_Wolf said:
TheBraveGallade said:

Now that even consoles are moving toward subscription based media, What you you guys think the future of physical media is?

Personally, I see them going toward the collector's item status, same as blu-ray.

Though however, I see everyone moving away from discs, as discs just don't work, hell, they haven't really since the start of gen 8.

even the much weaker wii U used install data on some bigger games to help loading (Xenoblade X)

I feel like everyone will move back to carts while simultainiously jacking up the price by at least 10$.

Making a port costs nothing compared to a disc drive, so there is a cost saving on a per console basis

plus they arn't as fragile as disc drives, and are much easier to repair and replace.

and by next gen, a 128GB read only SSD wouldn't be that expensive, currently they are around 20 bucks.

... Hell, now that I think about it, MS could do it right now with the series S/X, turning their proprietary expansion port from a 'detriment' into an asset since instead of moving around stuff from an HDD and back taking 30 minuetes, you can just hot swap a cart in and immediatly begin playing. even if it was 80$ (casue an ssd costs 20-30$ at 128GB when discs cost pennies) I'd say most people who would insist on buying phisical would buy this for the sheer convienience.

Solid state read-only memories already are totally viable for durability and speed, so the right price and companies will are the only conditions left for them to replace optical discs. Your question is interesting, because you predict the end of discs, not of the physical media. I agree, because digital download only is very far away to become viable for the majority of users: outside of towns and big villages, even in developed countries, wired connections still are far slower, and wireless connection can be vary shaky, the download of a single game tens of GB large can take even days if you can't get fibre connection or latest and fastest wireless one with strong and stable signal, and in some valleys you should even take your console on top of a hill to get enough signal. Satellite connection can solve speed and reach problems, but it has higher costs and very bad latency, good for download, but very bad for online multiplayer, so in the less lucky cases, where single player, or at most turn based multiplayer are the only viable gaming modes, physical media, even after the disc death, is still the best solution, as it is also when latency can be kept low enough for online MP, but speed is still bad for massive downloads.
And as you write, this solution could make discless low-cost console versions able to offer physical media too, not digital download only.

which is exactly the point i'm making.

phisical is not going away, much like how blu ray is still around and not dead yet, though i feel like it will eventually become a 'collector's item' rather then mainstream.

an SSD solution that uses some kind of NVME/PCIe based connection that slides into a port will be the next gen phisical port. it doesn't even need to be propreitary if they manage to pull off a thunderbolt 4 port solution.



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Cerebralbore101 on 21 October 2020
Azzanation said:
Iv been collecting phyiscal games since the beginning of gaming and honestly, its becoming more inconvenient trying to find space for everything. Sadly Digital media is superior is every way and collection a disk is now pointless especially considering you still need day 1 patches to use the disks.

Not sure what games you're buying but almost all of my games work without needing a day 1 patch.



DonFerrari on 21 October 2020
Cerebralbore101 said:
Azzanation said:
Iv been collecting phyiscal games since the beginning of gaming and honestly, its becoming more inconvenient trying to find space for everything. Sadly Digital media is superior is every way and collection a disk is now pointless especially considering you still need day 1 patches to use the disks.

Not sure what games you're buying but almost all of my games work without needing a day 1 patch.

I don't remember a single offline game that I bought and wasn't able to play directly without patch. The closest that happened to me was GTS that due to always being online (even for offline mode, which I hate) asked the patch, but yes it could be played without patch but wouldn't have the saving sync.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Conina on 21 October 2020
DPsx7 said:
Conina said:

And our physical games / movies can be damaged or get unusable by fire, water, heat, cold, pressure, laser rot, scratches, rusted contacts, empty batteries (can't hold savegames anymore), old copy protections like Securom, Tagès, StarForce... Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it can't. 

But the point was these are things YOU can prevent or avoid. If I lose my games it's my own fault. Nothing you can do about their servers or the internet. Rot isn't a problem as these discs will last longer than you need them to. BR's can't be scratched unless you're trying. Batteries can be replaced without much effort. Put it this way, I have NES or even Atari games that still work. Pretty sure my PS1 or DC games would too. Meanwhile we've already lost access to a handful of digital games that are years newer. I've often said don't fix what isn't broken. It just makes problems that don't need to be. And for what, a handful of people who are too lazy to flip a disc or too careless to keep their kids and pets away? Digital costs more so that alone should be enough incentive.

So every damage or loss of your physical games is your fault? No matter if there is a fire or flood or hurricane or theft or a publisher cheaping out on the materials?

And it ain't your fault if you don't keep your downloads (or redownload and backup it, when a delisting of a game is announced? Also, even if a Steam, PSN, XBL or eShop Switch game gets delisted, you can still redownload it over and over again as long as you have a valid license.

You really have a simple world view, all black and white.

Both digital and physical games have advantages and disadvantages... I like them both.



SvennoJ on 21 October 2020
DPsx7 said:

Kind of? Sometimes unexpected things happen. Otherwise you probably knew your area was prone to certain events and can take some precautionary measures. Some consoles won't let you back up or transfer your data. DDOS, server outage, internet congestion, hacked account, much of this you can't control, all a single point of failure blocking you from playing anything.

Facts are facts, digital has more problems than physical. I'd prefer to keep things in my control, after all I paid for the stuff so I should use it when I like.

True enough. Never said either one had to disappear. Sometimes a digital game is better than no game. But a good example here is I enjoy VR and want to try Beat Saber. If there was a disc I'd have already spent the $30. It's digital though so I don't feel right spending more than $10 since I'm technically getting less.

Make an exception and get the digital version, it's awesome. It's even better with a couple music packs. The game has had many free updates as well, a disc version of the original would be as 'representative' as the original disc version of DriveClub.

I do prefer physical in general although for VR I can't deny the convenience of not having to take the headset off to change discs and then have to fit it back on properly. Sometimes I buy the disc version later to add to my collection, however with GT Sport I bought the digital version later for convenience while storing my steel case edition safely away.

I've lost far more digital games over time than physical. My ps3 died at some point and I could not get everything back. I either couldn't remember what I was missing or the updates weren't there anymore. On PC the same, hdd failure, now to remember which games I'm missing from what direct sale sites if still available. I'm no good at keeping track of digital purchases, however physical games/movies I can find on my crowded shelves no problem.

I love physical editions, I just bought my 5th version of Princess Mononoke, the limited steelbook edition. It can stay shrinkwrapped, safely with the others on the shelf. I already had the Honk Kong and Disney edition on blu-ray and two dvd versions. Chance of them all failing, pretty much zero.



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Conina on 21 October 2020
DPsx7 said:

Games that I know disappeared like Duck Tales, I have that on disc too. There is one story that could help explain. Back when I played on PC I made the mistake of buying HL2. It came infected with Steam. This malware caused me to spend hours DL'ing a game that should have installed in minutes. It blocked me from playing on several occasions when the internet went out (broadband was new to the area then). The circus I went through because of one stupid game pretty much got me out of PC gaming and away from digital. It was an early lesson. Losing a free game or anything $10 or less, ok it stinks but not that big a deal. Getting screwed out of a $30 or worse $60 purchase, not gonna let that happen.

Where to begin? So much FUD, lies and half-truths!

Duck Tales: Remastered wasn't on sale digitally for a few months. Then it reappeared in all digital stores again after the licencing issues were solved.

Do you also blame the stores or the publisher/developer, when a physical game ain't available for a few months or even goes out of print forever?

People who already had one of the digital versions (PlayStation, Xbox, Steam,... ) kept a valid license and could play it the whole time.
People who already had one of the digital versions (PlayStation, Xbox, Steam,...) could download it the whole time, even in the delisted window.
People who already had one of the digital versions (PlayStation, Xbox, Steam,...) kept a valid license when the game came back to the digital shelves.
People who already had one of the digital versions (PlayStation, Xbox, Steam,...) didn't have any disadvantage due to the delisting.

If you bought Half-Life 2 (or any other of the earlier Steam games) as retail version you could install it directly from disc.

You didn't have to download the whole game, you only had to enter the Steam key for activation.

When Half-Life 2 launched in November 2004, Steam already had an off-line mode and still has it.

 



Conina on 21 October 2020
SvennoJ said:

I've lost far more digital games over time than physical. My ps3 died at some point and I could not get everything back. I either couldn't remember what I was missing or the updates weren't there anymore.

No, you didn't lose these games.

PS3: Go to Account Management ---> Transaction History ---> Download List

Xbox 360: Go to Settings ---> Account

PS4, Xbox One, Wii U, Switch, every PC game launcher: just look in the game library



SvennoJ on 21 October 2020
Conina said:
SvennoJ said:

I've lost far more digital games over time than physical. My ps3 died at some point and I could not get everything back. I either couldn't remember what I was missing or the updates weren't there anymore.

No, you didn't lose these games.

PS3: Go to Account Management ---> Transaction History ---> Download List

Xbox 360: Go to Settings ---> Account

PS4, Xbox One, Wii U, Switch, every PC game launcher: just look in the game library

The list is an undecipherable mess and extremely slow to navigate. I painstakingly went through it after I bought a new ps3 and simply could not find some of the DLC and add-ons I had bought like for example the DLC for super stardust. I did get the original game back but never found the add-ons. Of course with a disc I would have had the same problem unless I had waited to buy a disc with the complete version. @DPsx7 has a valid point.

Thanks to ps+ my download list is a terrible mess, as well as transaction history. I wish you could filter all the 'free' stuff out.

As for PC, I've bought digital games directly from the publisher, not in any game library. Can't remember the name of some I bought, just vaguely remember playing it, no clue who the publisher was. All my earlier PC games are in a box, ready to be installed again with all the manuals in reach.



DonFerrari on 22 October 2020
DPsx7 said:
Conina said:

Where to begin? So much FUD, lies and half-truths!

Duck Tales: Remastered wasn't on sale digitally for a few months. Then it reappeared in all digital stores again after the licencing issues were solved.

Do you also blame the stores or the publisher/developer, when a physical game ain't available for a few months or even goes out of print forever?

People who already had one of the digital versions (PlayStation, Xbox, Steam,... ) kept a valid license and could play it the whole time.
People who already had one of the digital versions (PlayStation, Xbox, Steam,...) could download it the whole time, even in the delisted window.
People who already had one of the digital versions (PlayStation, Xbox, Steam,...) kept a valid license when the game came back to the digital shelves.
People who already had one of the digital versions (PlayStation, Xbox, Steam,...) didn't have any disadvantage due to the delisting.

If you bought Half-Life 2 (or any other of the earlier Steam games) as retail version you could install it directly from disc.

You didn't have to download the whole game, you only had to enter the Steam key for activation.

When Half-Life 2 launched in November 2004, Steam already had an off-line mode and still has it.

 

I never lost it so I made the right choice.

Not an issue, I'll have my copy before it disappears. This is another one of those cases where if I didn't, it's my own fault. Remember digital can be stolen back at any time without refund.

But if you didn't have it, lost your account or HDD, then no luck.

This is 100% wrong. I bought the game and would have installed from disc if given the option. Offline mode does not exist. I have first hand experience from my many attempts to finish the damn game. I will never allow that malware on my system again and probably won't trust anyone who speaks positively of it. Totally lost my appetite for PC gaming.

We have seem cases of people permanently banned from Live, PSN, Steam or whatever and they lost access to all the games they had even the ones installed weren't able to play because license couldn't be checked. How do you saveguard from it? Obey whatever order the companies give and accept every TOS?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

SvennoJ on 22 October 2020
DPsx7 said:
That too. I say getting hacked is something you may not have control of. Getting banned also denies access to your library but you should know why that happened.

Sure, large corporations never make mistakes and have an excellent appeal process...