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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Future of Physical Media in consoles - end of disks?

I need to make one thing clear. Whenever these topics come up in forums as a general rule. I express my support for physical and a bunch of people who only support digital quote me and try to argue. I cannot be budged from my view on physical being better. Ownership is better. Preservation is better. A lot of stuff has been delisted I have physical versions of. That now only exist in physical form. I have so many games never ported to modern services or systems.

"but emulation" it's a shallow experience. It's getting a new game in the mail or finding some treasure out in the wild in a store or yard sale or flea market. That is a thrill. Not knowing anything about an old retro game you bought. It could be amazing or bad but the exciting thing is not knowing. Hearing the click of a cartridge popping in or opening the lid to pop the CD in and pressing power. Reading the manual. It's a build-up to playing the game. The anticipation leading up. Steam or whatever is soulless to me. A page that tells you everything about the game. People reviewed it. You click to download...yay. Boring. While I'm not the biggest on Nintendo franchises. Switch is the best system I have used in a long time. It brings almost every great quality about 90s console gaming on a modern system. It's the system you dreamed of in the 90s. Full portable console gaming. Nomad had the idea but wasn't quite there. I'm playing new games like Astral Chain that remind me why I game. The same excitement of all those new ideas and IPs we got but the tens of dozens each year. Switch bought that back. Also a cart system. While PS4 still has the physical aspect of popping a disc in and opening a new game. Physical games is not just about the format. The format is part of it. There is a build up of anticipation that can be days or weeks or hours. Then you get to appreiciate the artistry of the game.

All I get in digital games is. Cool game. Play for 5 minutes. Download another. Backlog of steam games most people don't play or finish.

 



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The external HDD/SSDs or proprietary expansion card that holds your digital downloads will be your new physical media.



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DPsx7 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

The OP said "the end of discs" and I think that is the best way to put it.  I can agree that discs are going away.  I don't think carts are going away.

Nintendo is going to keep selling carts, because too many people buy mostly carts.  Also retailers are a great way to market games.  They do a lot of their own marketing which is basically free marketing for the game publishers and console makers.  On the other hand Microsoft is clearly going hard toward the all digital route.  It's going to be somewhat successful, at least, if for no other reason than they just bought Bethesda and a bunch of other game studios.  Hot exclusive games can make any platform successful regardless of how good (or bad) the idea fundamentally is.  So Microsoft wants to get to discless as fast as possible, and they are definitely going to be successful enough that they can't be ignored.

That just leaves Sony.  I think for Generation 10 Sony is going to have to choose who they want to compete directly with.  They will most likely choose Microsoft, as the path of least resistance, since they and Microsoft have been fairly similar in the past.  In this case PS6 will be a discless system that focuses on a digital subscription service.  They might also to choose be more like Nintendo if they feel there is more money on this route.  That means Sony will make something like a "Vita hybrid" with carts.  Either way Sony will have to toss discs aside for one of the other two paths.

Regardless I'd have to agree that the era of discs will end in a few years, but physical media will continue through carts.

I don't think so. The problem they have is no games. Sure you'll say "but they bought..." when that doesn't guarantee a damn thing. Rare anyone? Personally the only thing I'd miss is Doom. Burned out on Dishonored and Wolf. Prey was neat but I dunno what they'd do for a sequel. Haven't played anything else. Anyways, since their catalog relies so heavily on BC it's easier to try digital even though they got shot down once before. (Have they learned nothing?)

Companies know it's suicide to go all digital, everyone has media coming next gen. Unless prices drop dramatically the market isn't going to wean off discs for a long time. I can see a couple reasons why it may benefit then to trade optical media for carts. Like I said before as long as we have this option I'm ok with it. As soon as we lose control, forced to be always online, I'm done.

*Cards aren't that pricey. They aren't as cheap as burning discs but what does a 16-32gb card cost now? That's plenty for the majority of games. Ramp up production and the bulk costs won't be high at all.

Switcher 3 fit entirely on a 32B cart when it first released. When I checked my Switch's SD card after playing it the first couple of times, there was no install file whatsoever for Witcher 3 on it. Later they did release a patch to allow PC saves to be used on Switch which takes up about a gig, they probably did some small QOL improvements to smooth out the framerate and such as well.



Leynos said:

I need to make one thing clear. Whenever these topics come up in forums as a general rule. I express my support for physical and a bunch of people who only support digital quote me and try to argue. I cannot be budged from my view on physical being better. Ownership is better. Preservation is better. A lot of stuff has been delisted I have physical versions of. That now only exist in physical form. I have so many games never ported to modern services or systems.

"but emulation" it's a shallow experience. It's getting a new game in the mail or finding some treasure out in the wild in a store or yard sale or flea market. That is a thrill. Not knowing anything about an old retro game you bought. It could be amazing or bad but the exciting thing is not knowing. Hearing the click of a cartridge popping in or opening the lid to pop the CD in and pressing power. Reading the manual. It's a build-up to playing the game. The anticipation leading up. Steam or whatever is soulless to me. A page that tells you everything about the game. People reviewed it. You click to download...yay. Boring. While I'm not the biggest on Nintendo franchises. Switch is the best system I have used in a long time. It brings almost every great quality about 90s console gaming on a modern system. It's the system you dreamed of in the 90s. Full portable console gaming. Nomad had the idea but wasn't quite there. I'm playing new games like Astral Chain that remind me why I game. The same excitement of all those new ideas and IPs we got but the tens of dozens each year. Switch bought that back. Also a cart system. While PS4 still has the physical aspect of popping a disc in and opening a new game. Physical games is not just about the format. The format is part of it. There is a build up of anticipation that can be days or weeks or hours. Then you get to appreiciate the artistry of the game.

All I get in digital games is. Cool game. Play for 5 minutes. Download another. Backlog of steam games most people don't play or finish.

 

Some of us like digital more because it's convenient and in some markets, price gouging is an issue. However, I agree delisting is an issue, which is why I believe people should back their games up to an external physical storage and keep that handy regardless of position. I literally have a 2TB NVMe stowed away with tons of XBO games... 



DPsx7 said:
Shiken said:
The external HDD/SSDs or proprietary expansion card that holds your digital downloads will be your new physical media.

Uh huh. What do you think THAT'S gonna cost? I'd rather look at a shelf or two of colorful spine art than a nasty tangle of wires and external devices.

Never said I was happy about it, just stating that this is indeed where we are headed.



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Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

It sure depends on the game you'll play. AC for example are all over 50Gb if I'm not wrong, CoD the same, most Sony 1st party also.

On the size itself a regular BD is 25 Gb (so a 32Gb stick would cover and still have space for DLCs that perhaps you could download and install on it), a dual layer BD is 50Gb (and gen 8 that was the limit the console accepted, so a 64Gb stick would cover, but it is plenty more expensive than a 16Gb stick, while dual layer BD additional cost is minimal) with some games coming with 2 dual layer BDs such as you listed FF7R and TLO2 so it would be 100Gb and a 128Gb stick is very costly compared to 2 dual layer BDs.

Next gen Sony and MS have a UHD driver so I guess it will be able to read even more layers so possibly a 100Gb game could be in a single disc and would be the standard.

The games for PS5 will be made to use the SSD speed, so you wouldn't be able to use a stick with 10% that speed and only need to install small parts. If you read or watch Sony presentation you'll see that.

BDXL goes all the way up to 128GB, both the Xbox One S, One X, Series S, Series X, Playstation 5 support that.

Thanks for giving that info, so 28% more than what I was expecting. Should be enough for most games of 9th gen, but sure thing we will get some 2 discs due to 4k assets.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

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DPsx7 said:
Shiken said:

Never said I was happy about it, just stating that this is indeed where we are headed.

K. Why though? From all I've seen the demand is higher for physical and no company is going to move ahead with dropping it until we say so. People don't realize companies are nothing without our money so we get a major vote in the deal. Then despite all the whining that 'discs are done' we get the Switch and PS5 with all our handy media intact. Honestly we probably won't have to worry about it until our infrastructure gets some important hurdles out of the way.

A simple google search would tell you that in 2018, only 17% of game sales were physical.  You got it backwards, the digital demand is higher.  And now that both Sony and MS are releasing all digital versions of their consoles at a cheaper price, it is obvious they are starting to push in that direction.  Throw in the value of gamepass and the like, newer generations of gamers already accepting digital, and a DECREASE in demand for physical game...the writing is on the wall.

You are right, they can do nothing without the consumer being on board.  What you fail to realize is that the majority of consumers (sadly) are already supporting the notion.



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DonFerrari said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

The thing I really don't like about a lot of these F2P games is that in order to get the full experience you need to pay way more than the standard $60 price tag. Even way more than the $60 price tag + $25 Expansion pass. League of Legends is the perfect example of this. I might have 1/5th of the champions in League if I'm lucky. I pretty much made that game my life for 3 years, and I spent about $300 on it to boot. That sort of time/money investment will buy you 5 full priced single player games, and get you the Platinum Trophy on 10 to 20 games.

I think a lot of these F2P games really need to slow down with the MTX. If you wind up spending 5 times more than that game would have cost then F2P is not a good model economically anymore. The real kicker here is that as more and more full priced games add in MTX, collecting or even buying games becomes pointless. The value proposition isn't there anymore. Heck, even as a completely free (No MTX, No nothing. COMPLETELY FREE) offering many games just don't have a good value proposition, because your time alone has value. If a game is full of tedious things that artificially lengthen the game, and don't respect the player's time then the game isn't worth bothering with.

And like I said before. This sort of "Add grind to the game, to sell MTX" model is going to kill my hobby long before physical media dies out.

The grinding and generic is what I hate most about open world games, it is a bunch of padding to increase lenght that I can't stand it. Even more because it have you going back and forth like and idiot on fetch quests.

BotW mostly skips the tedious travel. Try that.



DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:

BDXL goes all the way up to 128GB, both the Xbox One S, One X, Series S, Series X, Playstation 5 support that.

Thanks for giving that info, so 28% more than what I was expecting. Should be enough for most games of 9th gen, but sure thing we will get some 2 discs due to 4k assets.

It wouldn't surprise me if games continue to come of blu-ray. Either download the rest or multiple discs. I doubt they are going to change production lines to 4K blu-rays while pushing digital. Heck, FS 2020 came out on 10 DVDs (only available in Europe)



SvennoJ said:
DonFerrari said:

Thanks for giving that info, so 28% more than what I was expecting. Should be enough for most games of 9th gen, but sure thing we will get some 2 discs due to 4k assets.

It wouldn't surprise me if games continue to come of blu-ray. Either download the rest or multiple discs. I doubt they are going to change production lines to 4K blu-rays while pushing digital. Heck, FS 2020 came out on 10 DVDs (only available in Europe)

That was because PCs when they have a physical media reader it is dvd instead of bd. So MS gone and launched for the most common (and still niche) PC market. Xbox can read DVD but you can bet the game will come on BD.

I don't think printing the games on 4K BD will be that much more expensive long term than making more discs or if consumers will be happy with all games needing download to even play (Sony said all their physical PS4 and PS5 games could be played after installing without any need to connect to the internet).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."