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Forums - Nintendo - Why did the Gamecube fail?

The_Liquid_Laser said:
Soundwave said:

Actually I do remember avoiding LJN games, haha. But there wasn't really a distinction of what a 3rd party was, like you'd never heard someone say "I'm buying a 3rd party game" or something. Even the way Nintendo themselves positioned the NES in the West at least, all characters on Nintendo systems were basically just "Nintendo characters". 

Like you watch The Wizard (1989 Hollywood movie featuring Nintendo games pushed by Nintendo) and the kids play mostly third party content in the movie ... Double Dragon, Rad Racer (well this is a Squaresoft game, but published by Nintendo in the West), Ninja Gaiden, Ninja Turtles, etc. The Captain N TV show (animated show for kids licensed by Nintendo) also was much in the same way ... it had some Nintendo characters like Mother Brain and King Hippo but also third party characters like Simon Belmont and Megaman. 

It was all just "Nintendo". 

Also I can't find it but I believe there are splits that show how much 1st vs 3rd party software was sold on the NES, SNES, N64, GCN, Wii, etc. The NES has a huge chunk of its software sales coming from 3rd party titles. The SNES actually I believe had majority of its software sales from third parties. 

Growing up with the NES and SNES it was entirely common too ... everyone have Mario that came bundled with the system but after that it was a total crapshoot. It wasn't like now where most Switch owners are dominated by Nintendo IP, back then if someone had 5/7 of their NES games being third party (Megaman 2, Duck Tales, Castlevania, Tecmo Bowl, Ninja Turtles II and just say Mario/Duck Hunt plus Punch-Out! for the Nintendo side) ... something like that wasn't really rare or unsual at all. 

I think we are basically saying the same thing.  I never used the term "third party game", but I knew there were other companies publishing games that were not Nintendo.

"The NES has a huge chunk of its software sales coming from 3rd party titles. The SNES actually I believe had majority of its software sales from third parties."

The NES had lots of third party games, but the biggest sellers were from Nintendo.  Like I said in a previous post, only 3 of the top 20 were third party games on the NES.  However, if I were to list all of the million sellers, then you'd see a whole lot of third party games on the list.  You are right that there were lots of third party games and it's just that each person had different ones, but everyone had Mario.

Nintendo handhelds are like this too.  The top titles are always Nintendo games, but those third party games are still important.  They aren't there to be the top sellers, but to round out a person's library.  The third party titles are still important for the success of the system even if they aren't the top sellers.

The one Nintendo system that is truly different from the rest is the SNES.  The SNES had a bigger chunk of third party titles that were actually system sellers.  Street Fighter games and Squaresoft games were system sellers for the SNES.  They are doing more than just rounding out the library.  Nintendo still publishes the majority of the system sellers, but third parties play a major role.  The SNES is the only Nintendo system like this, where 7 out of the top 20 (1/3) are not Nintendo games.  Usually that ratio is more like 1/6 of the top 20.  After the SNES, the major third party titles went to Playstation.  But they were a big deal on the Playstation, because they were already a big deal on the SNES.

I wouldn't take all figures from the NES era as gospel, the game industry was the wild west back then, sales figures weren't accurately kept especially for 3rd party games, many of these companies don't even really exist anymore. 

I do think Nintendo did share 1st to 3rd party splits for hardware, that would be a better gauge, but the NES had a massive, massive amount of its software sales from third parties. 

Even things like 'Nintendo franchise' weren't as pronounced of a thing back then, people have to understand there was no such thing as Mario Kart, Pokemon, F-Zero, Animal Crossing, Smash Brothers, etc. etc. etc.. The only "franchises" Nintendo really had were Super Mario, which was a Ninja Turtles sized phenomenon in itself, and then Legend of Zelda which wasn't on that same level. 

But things like Punch-Out, Kung Fu, Duck Hunt, Ice Hockey, Metroid, Ice Climbers, etc. weren't really "franchises". They were just at that time one-off experiences for all anyone knew. Donkey Kong was out of style by then, a relic of the old Atari 2600 age of non-scrolling games your old uncle liked, Donkey Kong wasn't cool anymore. 

That was actually a big thing back then, being a "Nintendo fanatic" back then meant you weren't just good at Super Mario Bros. ... that was like "so what?". Everyone could play and beat Mario. If you were "big time" it meant you mastered a wide variety of games like Megaman, Castlevania, Blaster Master, Wizards & Warriors, Ninja Turtles II, and if you were really hardcore, even more niche style games. 

The NES era was just different. There was a magic of discovering new games and trying to "figure them out", calling Nintendo's hotline when you got stuck or digging through pages of Nintendo Power. No modern Nintendo system is really like the NES even though people want to try to shoe horn that comparison badly. The Wizard movie (a film basically designed by Nintendo's marketing department) from 1989 actually encapsulates the NES era reasonably well:

Nintendo's marketing department of the day also makes it seem like basically all video games, even arcades were all "Nintendo" (even though things like Megaman 2 weren't available in arcades), which was actually a fairly commonly held belief by a lot of parents. Video games were all just "Nintendo". 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 13 October 2020

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PS2 happened.



Leynos said:
curl-6 said:

Regarding PS2 and Gamecube, as I understand it the Cube's main graphical advantages were its high speed 1T-SRAM, and it's TEV unit which allows 8 textures to be combined in a single pass, thus giving it an advantage in things like bumpmapping and the like, correct?

I think Xbox only had 4. At least according to EGM in 2001.

The Xbox had 8 texture mapping units. It's Geforce 3/4 derived. It can match the Gamecube on this front.

Though the OG Xbox can handle larger textures due to it's higher system bandwidth and system memory capacity... The Cube had the texture cache and 1T-SRAM to make up some of that difference and can simply sample more textures and layer them appropriately in real time.
Star Wars definitely showcases this advantage for the Gamecube to a great extent.

curl-6 said:
Leynos said:

I think Xbox only had 4. At least according to EGM in 2001.

I remember reading that too. As I understand it (I could be wrong) Gamecube was faster at multitexturing due to being geared for it, while Xbox's programmable pixel and vertex shaders were less fast but more flexible.

Definitely. The Gamecube's TEV meant it was a texturing powerhouse, no doubt... And the games showcased that.
But for compute it was a no contest, this was simply one of nVidia's big key strengths at the time, no one would approach nVidia on this front (And we aren't talking raw specs here, but real-world capability) until ATI brought out the Radeon 9700 years later once the 7th generation was underway.

The Xbox being built on PC technology had a more 7th-gen hardware design which emphasized shaders and compute to pull off effects like deferred rendering in Shrek (Something that hit it big with Battlefield 3 during the 7th gen)...

And Ray Tracing in Conker: Live and Reloaded. (Global Illumination.)
In Conker if the normal looks towards the ground, the engine would shoot a single ray from the sky towards the ground and do collision detection with colour encoding calculations performed on the vertices.
Result was the ability for the engine to seamlessly do colour shifting between scenes.

Obviously Conkers implementation of Ray Tracing is rudimentary as it's only running on 6th gen hardware, but hard to ignore the benefits it brought forward.

Since then Ray Tracing has only become more intricate, demanding and impressive.
Conker and Shrek though are probably two of my favorite games that showcases the foundations of the main technologies we rely on today and which define current games and rendering approaches.

It was really forward looking hardware.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 13 October 2020


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The XBox kind of screwed things up too .... if there was no XBox or it fizzled out quickly like the 3DO and Jaguar did, the GameCube probably sells a more comfortable 40-50 million units.

They would've gotten beat but it would've been more respectable of a gap I think as with Sega out, GameCube would've been the only other alternative to the PS2 and since it was quick to $99-$149.99, it would've been cheap to pick up as a secondary console.

The GameCube still did have some good things going for it, game droughts were not nearly as prevalent as the N64, Resident Evil was exclusive which was a huge get at the time it was like getting the 2nd or 3rd most popular 3rd party IP exclusive.



In hindsight with the GameCube, knowing what we know now, I would probably tell Nintendo of the late 90s ...

- GameCube has to launch in late November 2000. Fall 2001 is too late, lets Sony get too much of a head start and lets Microsoft get their behind schedule XBox into the mix.

- The purple Fisher Price plastic design needs to go. Make it look like an Apple product or ditch the cube design entirely.

- Mini-DVDs are out. Full sized discs. DVD playback is optional via plug in dongle, so Nintendo can off-load the DVD licensing fee costs.

- Zelda: Majora's Mask, Perfect Dark, and Conker's Bad Fur Day are off the N64 and launch window GameCube software. To play basically any of these games you need the RAM expansion pak anyway ... hire extra artists if need be to work double time to bring the graphics performance up to snuff. N64 becomes more of the kids/Pokemon spin-offs machine in the later years of its life.

- Mario Sunshine time is given more time to bring the game up to a higher level. 

- Controller is tweaked, d-pad is larger, L and R buttons.

- This is probably cheating, but buy Bungie/Halo IP before Microsoft does, lol.

Last edited by Soundwave - on 13 October 2020

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Soundwave said:

In hindsight with the GameCube, knowing what we know now, I would probably tell Nintendo of the late 90s ...

- This is probably cheating, but buy Bungie/Halo IP before Microsoft does, lol.

I actually remember reading about how Battlefield could have been a Nintendo exclusive, originally. It's not exactly the same, mind you, especially since Battlefield didn't make it big on the console scene till Bad Company. But it's interesting nonetheless! Nintendo could have had their Splatoon/Halo much sooner. That's assuming that everything went right, of course, which isn't realistic, but still fascinating!  



Eh Melee outsold Halo and Melee made the Smash series the phenom it would become,while Halo is now limping along hanging onto former glory. If Gamecube had a competent online service like SEGANET or XBL along with Melee having an online mode. That would have been something.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

The GameCube didn't fail the market. The market failed the GameCube.

It is still my favorite console of all time, with my favorite list of games ever. It was powerful, it was portable, it had the GameBoy Advanced adaptor (that I used a TON), and it had the best controller of all time, across any system. Smash Melee, Luigi's Mansion, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Metroid Prime, Twilight Princess, Paper Mario TTYD, Rogue Squadron II, and so, so many more. It was a gamer's dream, but sadly it was destined to fail because everyone got obsessed with having DVD players built into everything. We were stupid and so the greatest device ever failed.



Dulfite said:
The GameCube didn't fail the market. The market failed the GameCube.

It is still my favorite console of all time, with my favorite list of games ever. It was powerful, it was portable, it had the GameBoy Advanced adaptor (that I used a TON), and it had the best controller of all time, across any system. Smash Melee, Luigi's Mansion, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Metroid Prime, Twilight Princess, Paper Mario TTYD, Rogue Squadron II, and so, so many more. It was a gamer's dream, but sadly it was destined to fail because everyone got obsessed with having DVD players built into everything. We were stupid and so the greatest device ever failed.

I agree, to a certain point. I still think some of Nintendo's decisions like the mini-DVD were very stupid. But I'll give Nintendo a slight defense that the 'Cube was only $99.99 from September 2003 onward. That is super cheap for a current-gen console a little less than two years after its launch. 

If Nintendo would've launched the GameCube at $99.99 or likely $149.99 and changed virtually nothing else, I do think it would've sold at minimum the same lifetime units of the N64. Heck, it might even match or surpass the SNES.

You're at the store. You're getting a new game console. PS2 is $299.99, Xbox is $299.99. But the GameCube is half the price. Sure it doesn't have a DVD player or online, but you have a pedigree of Nintendo titles and some multiplats. It would make a very attractive option for kids and adults alike.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 122 million (was 105 million, then 115 million) Xbox Series X/S: 38 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million. then 48 million. then 40 million)

Switch 2: 120 million (was 116 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

Ka-pi96 said:
It was purple and ugly?

More seriously though, when you ask "What did you or other people see in the Gamecube?" the answer is more along the lines of "What didn't I see?" and that was the Gamecube itself. It had basically no market presence. Everybody I knew had a PS2, Gamecube was barely even known about. Granted I'm from Europe where the NES, SNES and N64 didn't sell all that well either. So very little existing brand awareness, plus very little marketing or shelf space in stores and of course it isn't going to sell well.

Plus if, like me, you don't rate Nintendo games that highly then the Gamecube had a serious dearth of good games. I can't think of a single good exclusive for it, and for multiplats why would you get a weird system that nobody else owns for them, when you can get the same system all your mates have and borrow their games?

Fun fact: Europe received roughly 600 fewer Game Cube titles than the USA. 



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