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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony Explains Why 1st Party Games Won't Debut Day 1 on PS Now

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gamingsoul said:
At the end of the day it’s up to gamers to decide you want cheap mediocre games like sea of thieves? Buy a subscription service, you want high quality games? Support the developer and pay for it.
I wonder if the people who defend Netflix have actually watched their original content, because honestly most of the the Netflix movies I have watched are almost embarrassing.

Actually its Netflix original content that has kept me paying for the service.  Who cares if there are some embarrasing movies within the crop of great shows, documentaries, mini series etc.  The fact that you have so much content for your sub constantly is the selling point.  Oh well, I guess to each their own.  I mean you are dissing the service for some reason that I do not understand but that is not the point you made earlier.  The fact is, the model works and its very profitable.  Not understanding the model and why it works is a problem more on your ability to understand the market then the model itself. 



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Machiavellian said:
gamingsoul said:
At the end of the day it’s up to gamers to decide you want cheap mediocre games like sea of thieves? Buy a subscription service, you want high quality games? Support the developer and pay for it.
I wonder if the people who defend Netflix have actually watched their original content, because honestly most of the the Netflix movies I have watched are almost embarrassing.

Actually its Netflix original content that has kept me paying for the service.  Who cares if there are some embarrasing movies within the crop of great shows, documentaries, mini series etc.  The fact that you have so much content for your sub constantly is the selling point.  Oh well, I guess to each their own.  I mean you are dissing the service for some reason that I do not understand but that is not the point you made earlier.  The fact is, the model works and its very profitable.  Not understanding the model and why it works is a problem more on your ability to understand the market then the model itself. 

My point is, that model is only sustainable with lowbudget production(which can end up creating good products every once in a while)m but it is not sustainable with high budget blockbuster productions, I can live with the fact that we could have both models, but people pushing for companies like Sony and maybe eventually Nintendo to put their big games there will just kill the high budget aaa gaming market, and we will end with low budget productions just like Netflix.

people always tell me, but you don’t understand the market...well the Sony ceo just said what I have always said about gaming subscriptions, and where’s is nintendo why are they so silent about gaming services when it’s such a great deal?

Last edited by gamingsoul - on 18 September 2020

Dallinor said:
EpicRandy said:

"These games cost many millions of dollars, well over $100 million, to develop" That a gross exaggeration there's only a handful of games that have reach this figure let alone sony exclusives.
Also, what about day 1 A, AA games? no excuse for them?

But I think there's little confusion here the quote refer to streaming service and you compare with Gamepass which ain't a streaming service.

For Sony there might be a lot of investment to do to upgrade their PS Now infra to support higher resolutions and new releases which would also see a higher number of user. These investment might even be too high to justify.
Microsoft on the other end may rely on azure platforms.

If we talk more specifically about PS Plus Collection than you can quote me on this, Sony will release most of there AAA day one on it by the end of the generation. When this happen I'll buy a ps5 digital edition and subscribe to it for sure

I think you might be severely underestimating just how much development costs have increased, and how fast.

"Shawn Layden referenced PlayStation’s The Last of Us 2 – a game he oversaw – which is roughly double the length and took double the development time of its predecessor. While the former PlayStation exec did not comment on the Naughty Dog game’s budget, he referred to a common theory that development costs had doubled with every new console generation, and claimed that current-gen games had reached between $80m and $150m for most AAA games.Source.

That's for this generation (PS4, Xbox One).

"Industry research firm IDG Consulting recently said it believed that more major games publishers would explore raising the prices of their games on PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X, as development costs are expected to increase." 

"In 2005, a AAA developer making a top-10 title-Electronic Arts developing the next Madden, for instance- was spending somewhere between $25 million and $35 million. “But let’s say you’re a more reasonable, cost-rational development studio,” Osaki said. “Now [in 2020], for that same [top-10] title, you’re looking at development costs somewhere between $75 to $100 million. Some folks are spending $100 million to $150 million depending on what studio, what genre, what IP you’re looking at.Source.

GT5 (10 years ago) cost Sony- $60 million. Fable Legends (2016) reportedly cost MS- $75 million.

I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Sony's big AAA games are hitting $100 million in development costs.

100M budget for development alone is still far from the norms among all AAA. I Know The Last of Us 2, is rumored to have reached this figure but cannot find any reliable info on other exclusives that did recently. But still, that kind of budget is only unlocked for new entries of an already well established, well loved, successful ip and when there's basically no risk related to the investment. Most of your source actually reflect this. 

Reliable information on the subject is scarce so there's guessing from my part but I'll argue that 30m-60m should still provide enough budget for many AAA and is probably the kind of budget you find for most new ip AAA titles and most sequel. Uncharted 4 budget was rumored to be about 50M.


 



gamingsoul said:
Machiavellian said:

Actually its Netflix original content that has kept me paying for the service.  Who cares if there are some embarrasing movies within the crop of great shows, documentaries, mini series etc.  The fact that you have so much content for your sub constantly is the selling point.  Oh well, I guess to each their own.  I mean you are dissing the service for some reason that I do not understand but that is not the point you made earlier.  The fact is, the model works and its very profitable.  Not understanding the model and why it works is a problem more on your ability to understand the market then the model itself. 

My point is, that model is only sustainable with lowbudget production(which can end up creating good products every once in a while)m but it is not sustainable with high budget blockbuster productions, I can live with the fact that we could have both models, but people pushing for companies like Sony and maybe eventually Nintendo to put their big games there will just kill the high budget aaa gaming market, and we will end with low budget productions just like Netflix.

people always tell me, but you don’t understand the market...well the Sony ceo just said what I have always said about gaming subscriptions, and where’s is nintendo why are they so silent about gaming services when it’s such a great deal?

Please don't write your text IN the quotes but UNDER the quotes.



Conina said:
gamingsoul said:

Please don't write your text IN the quotes but UNDER the quotes.

Fixed, sorry 



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I want Jim Ryan to go.



yvanjean said:
Manlytears said:

you wrong, completely wrong... remaster and Remake are not the same thing. Demon's Souls Remake is a game remade from the ground with a completely different technology that demonstrates a true game of the next generation. A remaster is simply a small improvement in areas like resolution, textures, the basis of the game is the same.

Remake and remaster... two completely different things.

My bad I should have said Remastered/Remake games are a quick cash grab and Sony cash cow.

You are not making a new game from the grounds up and spending hours on level design, Story, Mechanics, Etc.

You are spending about 15-30% of the original budget to Remaster/Remake and slap on a $69.99 price tag on it. 

More power to Sony if people are willing to drop $69.99 on a remake, smart business. I can benefit after they are done playing with it and pick it up in the bargain bins or they drop the digital price a few months down the road.

⚠️ WARNED: Flaming

Would like to see the sources for the claim that a remake uses 30% the budget of the original.

Considering FF VIIR then the original must really have costed a lot.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

The only reason why MS first party games releasing on gamepass on day 1 as being sustainable is because most of them are now/ are becoming service games. Halo Infinite, Grounded, Forza, Fable Reboot is rumored to be a MMo- lite game, etc.

So their bet is that they will have reccurent revenue - Microtransactions. That goes against the philosofy of Sony and Nintendo games for the most part, where they are trying to be single player games, or experiences rather than services.

I fear the direction MS is going for will only worsen the quality of their games. But I really hope I'm wrong.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

gamingsoul said:
Why are Xbox fans so cheap? You expect game developers to hand you their games for free? You get for what you pay for, look how cheap battletoads and sea of thieves are, even ori isn’t that impressive.

Sorry I like playing more games then you for hundreds less every year (shrugs). 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

vonny said:
sales2099 said:

Official response: That’s why Xbox put their games on Steam/Win Store. And then you got the majority who still buy games on console. Full purchases of games go hand and hand with Game Pass.

Unofficial Response: Sony knows damn well they got their fans right where they want them. They know they can make more money from traditional sales and have no reason to transition from short term income gain to steady flow of income.

Oh shit business are going to business, do you think Microsoft created gamepass because they feel nice and like giving? Each company is going to do what they feel will bring them the most profit

Well I mean I played 20 games last year and 15 this year so far on Game Pass alone where as you would have to spend hundreds to even approach what I’m playing for $180 a year. 

I am very aware it’s all a business on both sides. But I’m clearly getting the better deal, if anything from a purely financial and bang-for-buck point of view.

Imo Sony demands more of your money because they can. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.