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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The console war is over

Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

It lost money mostly due to RROD on X360 and they decided to go different revenue stream because they can`t compete on console against Sony.

Xbox did compete with PS head on. They did it last gen and beat Sony at their own game, so they can do it. However the cost of doing it doesn't fit well with a mega corp like MS. 

RROD lost $1.5b for the 360, the total loss was $3b so RROD wasn't the main issue. The PS3 lost $5b and that's without an RROD issue and paid subs to help balance it out back than. The collateral damage isn't worth it so that's why they changed Xbox the following gen with the XB1.

https://www.vg247.com/2013/01/07/xbox-360-and-ps3-losses-total-8-billion-ex-sony-employee-paints-grim-future/#:~:text=Animal%20Crossing-,Xbox%20360%20and%20PS3%20losses%20total%20%248%20billion%2C%20ex,Sony%20employee%20paints%20grim%20future&text=Xbox%20360%20and%20PS3%20have,by%20industry%20veteran%20Ben%20Cousins.&text=%E2%80%9CConsoles%20like%20Xboxes%2C%20PlayStations%20%26,a%20loss%E2%80%9D%2C%20said%20Cousins. 

How i see it, MS wanted to change their direction as the 360 loses isn't good enough for MS so Don Mattrick made the changes to the XB1, adding in DRM, Power of the Cloud and always online etc to move the console away from the 360 and towards a more digital future, and that's why we have GamePass, Full Backwards compatibility, Power of the Cloud (XCloud) Multi-platform releases (Steam) and cross gen games now. Those ideas are only getting pushed even further with the Series X. So here we are again, back to the original ideas of the XB1 however the difference is now, people are more accepting of the idea.

They needed Sony doing all major fuckups while they themselves doing very few mistakes in comparison (with only RROD being of notice, and that being mostly disregarded by the fanbase and even market, RROD just got confirmation after X360 was already well stablished).

From what I remember the department of Xbox wasn't really only Xbox so it had losses from other devices and endeavors like Surface, isn't that correct?

Sony certainly lost a fuck ton of money on PS3, it was selling for like 300 loss per console on launch and it actually never was reported to sell for a profit during it lifetime, so that was very hard to offset with SW sales (that Sony at the time had from every 10 1st party games launched 6 was losing money, 2 broke even and only 2 really made money and perhaps that didn`t even pay out for the whole cost) or even the royalties. PSN for free only added costs without revenue, with plus being very late on the gen and only having 1-2M subs.

And good that you point that Phil Spencer is bringing Xbox Series X to what Don Mattrick wanted on Xbox One, so he isn`t that good guy with a complete different mindset from Don Mattrick that was being held down by corporate right?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:

They needed Sony doing all major fuckups while they themselves doing very few mistakes in comparison (with only RROD being of notice, and that being mostly disregarded by the fanbase and even market, RROD just got confirmation after X360 was already well stablished).

From what I remember the department of Xbox wasn't really only Xbox so it had losses from other devices and endeavors like Surface, isn't that correct?

Sony certainly lost a fuck ton of money on PS3, it was selling for like 300 loss per console on launch and it actually never was reported to sell for a profit during it lifetime, so that was very hard to offset with SW sales (that Sony at the time had from every 10 1st party games launched 6 was losing money, 2 broke even and only 2 really made money and perhaps that didn`t even pay out for the whole cost) or even the royalties. PSN for free only added costs without revenue, with plus being very late on the gen and only having 1-2M subs.

And good that you point that Phil Spencer is bringing Xbox Series X to what Don Mattrick wanted on Xbox One, so he isn`t that good guy with a complete different mindset from Don Mattrick that was being held down by corporate right?

What ever the reasons these consoles sell for doesn't change the fact that they make and lose money. The console industry is a very in-consistence industry, one gen they can be on top of the world and the next gen they are on the bottom bleeding money. Its not a stable business practice. Something MS wants to move away from and implement a more stable system for their business practices.

Exactly, Phil is doing what Don is doing which is what MS wanted in the first place, neither are bad guys and the ideas work great on paper, Steam shows that this method works extremely well, its just very hard implementing these ideas into the console industry until now.



Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

They needed Sony doing all major fuckups while they themselves doing very few mistakes in comparison (with only RROD being of notice, and that being mostly disregarded by the fanbase and even market, RROD just got confirmation after X360 was already well stablished).

From what I remember the department of Xbox wasn't really only Xbox so it had losses from other devices and endeavors like Surface, isn't that correct?

Sony certainly lost a fuck ton of money on PS3, it was selling for like 300 loss per console on launch and it actually never was reported to sell for a profit during it lifetime, so that was very hard to offset with SW sales (that Sony at the time had from every 10 1st party games launched 6 was losing money, 2 broke even and only 2 really made money and perhaps that didn`t even pay out for the whole cost) or even the royalties. PSN for free only added costs without revenue, with plus being very late on the gen and only having 1-2M subs.

And good that you point that Phil Spencer is bringing Xbox Series X to what Don Mattrick wanted on Xbox One, so he isn`t that good guy with a complete different mindset from Don Mattrick that was being held down by corporate right?

What ever the reasons these consoles sell for doesn't change the fact that they make and lose money. The console industry is a very in-consistence industry, one gen they can be on top of the world and the next gen they are on the bottom bleeding money. Its not a stable business practice. Something MS wants to move away from and implement a more stable system for their business practices.

Exactly, Phil is doing what Don is doing which is what MS wanted in the first place, neither are bad guys and the ideas work great on paper, Steam shows that this method works extremely well, its just very hard implementing these ideas into the console industry until now.

Nintendo have been pretty consistent though, and most 3rd parties as well. Sony have lost money only on PS3 and we don`t have any evidence that MS had any console that truly profited so not sure where you are getting this inconsistence out of.

Still we got several fans talking that Phil was against what MS did with X1 and that he didn`t had the power to fight it back.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Azzanation said:

What ever the reasons these consoles sell for doesn't change the fact that they make and lose money. The console industry is a very in-consistence industry, one gen they can be on top of the world and the next gen they are on the bottom bleeding money. Its not a stable business practice. Something MS wants to move away from and implement a more stable system for their business practices.

Exactly, Phil is doing what Don is doing which is what MS wanted in the first place, neither are bad guys and the ideas work great on paper, Steam shows that this method works extremely well, its just very hard implementing these ideas into the console industry until now.

Nintendo have been pretty consistent though, and most 3rd parties as well. Sony have lost money only on PS3 and we don`t have any evidence that MS had any console that truly profited so not sure where you are getting this inconsistence out of.

Still we got several fans talking that Phil was against what MS did with X1 and that he didn`t had the power to fight it back.

Nintendo went from N64 to GameCube, Wii to WiiU, Sony went from PS2 to PS3, Xbox went from 360 to XB1. The market is incredibly in-consistence and random at times, almost a guessing game on who would make the bigger stuff up next.

Well i was never against the Don Mattrick's idea as always online and a digital market is something i am use to with Steam. Phil basically brought the brand back from a dark place with a new face however its obvious MS want this Don direction hence the current shift from hardware to services.



Azzanation said:

Xbox did compete with PS head on. They did it last gen and beat Sony at their own game, so they can do it. However the cost of doing it doesn't fit well with a mega corp like MS. 

RROD lost $1.5b for the 360, the total loss was $3b so RROD wasn't the main issue. The PS3 lost $5b and that's without an RROD issue and paid subs to help balance it out back than. The collateral damage isn't worth it so that's why they changed Xbox the following gen with the XB1.

https://www.vg247.com/2013/01/07/xbox-360-and-ps3-losses-total-8-billion-ex-sony-employee-paints-grim-future/#:~:text=Animal%20Crossing-,Xbox%20360%20and%20PS3%20losses%20total%20%248%20billion%2C%20ex,Sony%20employee%20paints%20grim%20future&text=Xbox%20360%20and%20PS3%20have,by%20industry%20veteran%20Ben%20Cousins.&text=%E2%80%9CConsoles%20like%20Xboxes%2C%20PlayStations%20%26,a%20loss%E2%80%9D%2C%20said%20Cousins. 

How i see it, MS wanted to change their direction as the 360 loses isn't good enough for MS so Don Mattrick made the changes to the XB1, adding in DRM, Power of the Cloud and always online etc to move the console away from the 360 and towards a more digital future, and that's why we have GamePass, Full Backwards compatibility, Power of the Cloud (XCloud) Multi-platform releases (Steam) and cross gen games now. Those ideas are only getting pushed even further with the Series X. So here we are again, back to the original ideas of the XB1 however the difference is now, people are more accepting of the idea.

Last gen is very bad example because both Sony and MS decided to use the approach to release consoles that are very expensive to make. This approach is bad because it makes you lose more money the more consoles you sell with no guarantee to return the investments. This gen both decided not to lose money on hardware at all. Which made both companies profitable almost from day one. So the point is, if you release a console and not losing a lot of money on it, it becomes important to sell as much as you can, because it makes you more profitable in the end. That's just how modern day console market operates. Microsoft still can compete with PS head on like they did last gen in modern reality and if they do, it will make them extremely successful if they manage to beat Sony at this game. Microsoft just needs to get their shit together and start becoming more competitive. I'm not a market analyst but I guess it will pay off pretty well for them in the end if they do it.



 

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KratosLives said:
gamepass will be the demise of xbox in the future

If regulated to just Xbox? Who knows. Good thing it’s also on PC and doesn’t restrict you from buying games. I mean look at Steam sales charts. Plenty people still like buying games, especially Xbox ones ;)



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

DonFerrari said:
Azzanation said:

What ever the reasons these consoles sell for doesn't change the fact that they make and lose money. The console industry is a very in-consistence industry, one gen they can be on top of the world and the next gen they are on the bottom bleeding money. Its not a stable business practice. Something MS wants to move away from and implement a more stable system for their business practices.

Exactly, Phil is doing what Don is doing which is what MS wanted in the first place, neither are bad guys and the ideas work great on paper, Steam shows that this method works extremely well, its just very hard implementing these ideas into the console industry until now.

Nintendo have been pretty consistent though, and most 3rd parties as well. Sony have lost money only on PS3 and we don`t have any evidence that MS had any console that truly profited so not sure where you are getting this inconsistence out of.

Still we got several fans talking that Phil was against what MS did with X1 and that he didn`t had the power to fight it back.

Just saying Xbox 360 was profitable since 2008. Kinect gave a nice boost too. Don’t ask me how I know, I just remember. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

Nintendo have been pretty consistent though, and most 3rd parties as well. Sony have lost money only on PS3 and we don`t have any evidence that MS had any console that truly profited so not sure where you are getting this inconsistence out of.

Still we got several fans talking that Phil was against what MS did with X1 and that he didn`t had the power to fight it back.

Just saying Xbox 360 was profitable since 2008. Kinect gave a nice boost too. Don’t ask me how I know, I just remember. 

Talking in total man, the profit after 2008 (if existed, because MS at the time revealed the profit and loss for the department and that had more than Xbox right?) didn't offset all the loss of the previous year. At least from the numbers we had access both PS3 and X360 lost plenty of money although it was the best gen in total, we had Xbox very strong with great games, Wii if a unique proposition and I enjoyed several games and PS3 even with all the flaws had great games... sure when looking at a single system for me no gen had better games on a single platform than PS4 (sure PS2 had more variety and all, but well I like new stuff =p).

And this gen despise X1 selling much less than X360 it certainly made much more money (unfortunately MS doesn't give data that is only Xbox =[) and PS4 was the best profit Sony made on gaming ever. They should greatly thank MS on showing then that paying for MP would be a gold mine (for as much as I hate they doing it and not even playing MP).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

It really should be over. Nintendo does handheld and family friendly, Sony does power and variety, Microsoft does...what exactly? Services and shooty bang bang games? They don't have enough stuff to justify needing a console of their own.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

zero129 said:
goopy20 said:

The Switch probably can, if all their 1st party games are designed to scale and run in 4k/60 or 120fps on Series X.

This is exactly what I've been saying for months. GP is fantastic but it gets in the away of launching a next gen console and pushing its hardware. Series X doesn't have exclusives because MS doesn't want games on GP that are designed around high-end specs. I mean how great would GP be if your pc couldn't run 95% of the games on there? Almost every pc on the planet has access to GP, so that's obviously where MS expects to get most of their revenue from in the foreseeable future. Their end game is Xcloud, though, so they can go after the mobile gamers and have GP pre-installed on Samsung Tv's.

MS is thinking about potentially reaching 2 billion people, so why would they care about a max Series X installbase of like 50m? I'm Pretty sure they would have to pay royalties to companies like Samsung as well. So when you think about it, it wouldn't make business sense NOT to release GP on ps5 or Switch.

Stop pushing your false narrative. You keep trying to say that PC is holding consoles back but thats never been the case and sure as hell isnt the case now and it never will be. Also the was plenty of games that was shown at the MS event that look just as good as anything Sony showed so far.

But i guess you are the guy who thinks its ok to brag about CGI and In Engine footage when its from Sony so i shouldnt be too surprised by your posts, Hopefully the mods will keep an eye on your claims and are willing to ask you to prove some of the outlandish stuff you do be saying.

I mean how the hell would Gamepass be better if MS games wasnt coming to PC??. It would be worse.. And the was plenty of exclusives at the MS event that isnt coming to XBOne so how would you expect them to come to the Switch??. Maybe games like Grounded. But Fable, MS Flight Sim, Forza, state of decay 3 etc about as much chance as scaling Horizon 2 to run on the Switch.

And Halos problems doesnt come from being crossgen also, it would do you well to read up on that if your going to be trying to trow this narrative around..

I'll have to disagree because no game show at the MS conference got anywhere near Horizon 2 Forbidden West and even some of the other games there. Sure MS can use the power of Series X to have games looking even better than that, but they didn't yet.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."