Forums - Sony Discussion - How Sony will respond Game Pass?

DPsx7 said:
JWeinCom said:

If they hike the price, then you stop using the service. If it's successful, there will be competitors.

Something can be good for a company and also be good for consumers. 

Enh, be careful with that. If you invest money into the library and they jack the price you're gonna either have to suck it up or lose access to everything.

Yeah? That's kind of the point? Just like if I stop paying Netflix I don't get access to those movies anymore. As of now, save files can be used if I decide to buy the game outside of gamepass, so if I no longer find gamepass worth it, then I could buy whatever games I still care about and move on.

If it's important to me to have continued access to all the games I'm playing, then gamepass is not the way to go.



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If they'll really have, they'll try to devise something that make both devs and users happier with the deal, but they'll also keep on offering everything they can to gamers that shiver just thinking about gaming as a service.
As long as MS sells its products as a service, it's just a matter between MS and its users, but this thing could become dangerous: once many users have become addicted, they won't notice if the deal becomes nastier, but 3rd party devs and publishers most surely will, some could be badly hurt, and unable to do anything, while the biggest publishers could ask MS for their share to grow, at the expense of smaller ones.



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Nautilus said:

Of course? I mean, that's how business work. It's easier to sell you on a product/service if they are cheaper at first. Once the product/service is proven and it has a better pedigree/brand recognition, you can actually start charging an amount that actually makes you money.

MS is really behind Nintendo and Sony in terms of, well everything. So yes, going third party by releasing their games on PC and some on Switch, coupled with services like Gamepass and XCloud was their answer to make the brand Xbox profitable.It's how they choose to survive.

I know thats how business works. But thats not what makes this truly stupid.

There are people looking at this as if MS is being pro-consumer. But they aren't, what MS is doing is actually exactly what a company that doesn't really care about games or gamers would do. On the surface, it looks like they are opening up an entire ecosystem library to the consumer for very little money every month, but in truth, in the long term, what they are doing is actually constricting the library. 

How? I'm glad you asked...

Movies have the theatre/cinema, shows have TV and ads. The only truly viable business model for games is direct to consumer sales. A game takes at least 2 years to make, and some an even take 4+ years to make. They cost these companies anywhere from $20M - $200+ to make. Most of these AA games needs to sell like 2-3M copies just to break even. 

What do you think happens when you give gamers a service that means they never have to spend anything more than $10 on games each month? Yes, they may not get Cyberpunk on launch day, but guess what, it may show up in a year on gamepass so I will wait. And that kinda mindset trickles down. Then next thing you know, making those big $200M+ RPGs/Racers/Adventure...etc games don't make sense anymore. All that starts making sense are more GaaS type games. More games like Fortnite, Rocket League, Mine craft...etc. And trust me, every major publisher will churn out at least tw of those. Generationalgaes, games that release once a gen and milks you on mxt and "season passes" for the rest of the gen.

An all that is before the price hikes start coming in. Its a race to the bottom. MS gets a service, ties you into an ecosystem full of games that you don't actually own and can only play as long as you stay subbed. But at the same time,the constrict the gaming output of the industry as a whole over the course of years.It's the ONLY possible outcome from stuff like this. 

Think about it, if you own an Xbox, you have to be a VERY BIG FOOL to not sub to gamepass. Why in God's name would you pay $60 for halo when you can play it for $10? But thats the thing, you are still playing what is truly a $60 game. In time, all the games you will see on the service would be $10 game equivalents.Or games would start getting broken up into "volumes".

Why? Because MS still has to pay for those games to be on gamepass. Take for instance, in one year, AC, COD, Cyberpunk,Tomb Raider, FIFA all release. Each sells r at least has the potential of selling 10M copies across two different platforms. Thats at least $3B in revenue just for those 5 games. MS would have to foot that bill if they want those games to be there on day one. And we aren't even talking about the 50 other smaller games that will also release that year. So what happens when gamers "wisen" up and just wait till the games come to gamepass anyways? Those companies end up selling far fewer games than they would have. Or, they release the game in split up volumes that they can sell individually to MS. Or they dn' release their games on the Xbox platform at all.

JWeinCom said:

If they hike the price, then you stop using the service. If it's successful, there will be competitors.

Something can be good for a company and also be good for consumers. 

In this case, by then the damage would have been done. 

I am not against a service like game pass, I am just against how MS is trying to implement it. Games should not appear on it day one. Give the games a chance to perform in the open-market. Hell give it 3 months, though I think 8-12 months would be ideal instead. If yu train your userbase to expect everything day one, then they would simply not buy anything and just wait. That kinda mindset is bad for the industry. It's putting too much power in the hands of the person that drives that service. And it's simply not viable.



JWeinCom said:
DPsx7 said:

Enh, be careful with that. If you invest money into the library and they jack the price you're gonna either have to suck it up or lose access to everything.

Yeah? That's kind of the point? Just like if I stop paying Netflix I don't get access to those movies anymore. As of now, save files can be used if I decide to buy the game outside of gamepass, so if I no longer find gamepass worth it, then I could buy whatever games I still care about and move on.

If it's important to me to have continued access to all the games I'm playing, then gamepass is not the way to go.

The point is to get locked into rising costs? I suppose if you have the saves then yeah you have some other option besides going cold turkey.

Well we were talking about MP not too long ago so you may want to keep access to certain games.



To Int, I'm suspicious of this program too but in the end it's just an option. Third party games will still earn the usual from the other platforms so maybe the only games to suffer are the exclusives. I'd assume devs have to sign up for this program so they must be compensated in some way that benefits them.

I've also had that thought. If ever we got stuck with games as service or streaming it's going to harm our AAA's. Development would be too pricey and all we'd receive is mobile-quality junk. Short lived games that are disposable as soon as the next flavor of the month arrives.



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DPsx7 said:
JWeinCom said:

Yeah? That's kind of the point? Just like if I stop paying Netflix I don't get access to those movies anymore. As of now, save files can be used if I decide to buy the game outside of gamepass, so if I no longer find gamepass worth it, then I could buy whatever games I still care about and move on.

If it's important to me to have continued access to all the games I'm playing, then gamepass is not the way to go.

The point is to get locked into rising costs? I suppose if you have the saves then yeah you have some other option besides going cold turkey.

Well we were talking about MP not too long ago so you may want to keep access to certain games.

The point is that you pay for the service for a certain period of time at a certain rate. Once that period has expired, you can choose to sign up again at whatever the current rate is, or you can choose not to sign up. I don't see how anyone is locked into anything. 



JWeinCom said:
DPsx7 said:

The point is to get locked into rising costs? I suppose if you have the saves then yeah you have some other option besides going cold turkey.

Well we were talking about MP not too long ago so you may want to keep access to certain games.

The point is that you pay for the service for a certain period of time at a certain rate. Once that period has expired, you can choose to sign up again at whatever the current rate is, or you can choose not to sign up. I don't see how anyone is locked into anything. 

As with majority of subscriptions you have to opt out to get out - this is the case for GP where you continue to pay unless you cancel the sub. Which a lot of people neglect to do.

Granted some companies make this more of an hassle. Take cellphone companies for example. A lot of people also subscribe to so much stuff forget what subs they are paying for, which is what these companies want.



JWeinCom said:
DPsx7 said:

The point is to get locked into rising costs? I suppose if you have the saves then yeah you have some other option besides going cold turkey.

Well we were talking about MP not too long ago so you may want to keep access to certain games.

The point is that you pay for the service for a certain period of time at a certain rate. Once that period has expired, you can choose to sign up again at whatever the current rate is, or you can choose not to sign up. I don't see how anyone is locked into anything. 

It's like this. You buy the console and a pass. If the pass goes up in price and you don't like it now you have a console and nothing to play. It's not a paperweight as you can still go out and buy retail games, but if you're gonna do that you might as well skip the pass entirely.

Dunno if people who sub to a lot of things just don't worry about it. Whatever.



A few random thoughts:

-Some people say it's bad for developers. How do those of you feel about the "free" games given away by PS+ and GWG? At least with Game Pass, those AAA games are just temporarily on the market. You may buy it later. With the other services, if they give you a game, it's almost yours. They're not making any more money from you unless you buy DLC.

-At least one person said they still prefer digital because they can control their purchase. Remember the time people couldn't even play Heavy Rain on PS3 despite owning it physically? Physical is no guarantee of anything.

-Some ham would be pretty good right now. A nice ham and cheese sandwich...

My point is, even if you buy physically, there's just so much to download, so much to patch in, and DRM is so ingrained in modern hardware (2005-present), even if you buy physical, you're just buying digital with a disc in your hand. The world changed and we didn't even notice.

At this point, even with big games coming to Game Pass, it's still just a percentage. People will still gravitate towards retail or (like me) just buy digitally because they think they own the game that way.

We don't.

-One last thing: Attach rates. How many games does the average gamer buy? If you're like me (the way I used to be) you were buying multiple games a month. Awesome for the industry. I think gamers don't fall under that umbrella. If M$ can convince millions of those gamers who were spending $0 a month on nothing to spend $15 a month on something they weren't even interested in... 🤔



mZuzek loves to pre-order

Game pass isn't even pro consumer, guess it is if you see the low sub price for a catalog of games. GAAS will never give you big budget games, it simply won't pay for it. In that sense to me it is not pro consumer, I would rather pay full price games that give me these experiences.