Forums - Politics Discussion - Is it true that Americans are to this day afraid of socialism?

NightlyPoe said:
JRPGfan said:

So can captalism.

Look at Trump, he doesnt fear the law in the US anymore, he thinks himself above the law,
and basically proves it by being able to break it and get away with it.

Trump is useing populism & nationalism, and racism, to win elections.
He keeps a book on hilters speeches by his bedside (said his ex-wife).
He mirrors alot of slogan and talking points Hilter did.... and he won the presidency.

Hes managed to replace alot of the people, who are in place, as safety guards to put a check on a presidents powers.
With alot of "yes people" that'll just nod at everything he does.

Is the US about to become a facist dictatorship?
I dont think so, yet.... however its strikeing the parrallels to hilter, and the america people, much like the germans at the time, dont see the danger.

What the heck does any of that have to do with capitalism?

And, no, Trump is not going to become a fascist dictator.  If he were trying, he's gone about it in a strange way considering he's probably the first president since Ford to significantly reduce the power of the office.

He was scarmongering about socialism.
Im just saying capitalism isnt immune to dictators either.


"he's probably the first president since Ford to significantly reduce the power of the office."

Huh?

Have you seen the Picture of Ivanka + Trump marketing Goya Beans ?
Thats actually against the law for them to do.  However give Trump a bag of money, and he ll market your bean can for you.

Hes reduced the power of the office?
Then howcome anyone thats critical of him, gets replaced?
Any investigation into him is stopped? Hes supoena'd for tax returns (law says hand them over) for a investigation and he doesnt?
Look how many people broke the law for him, and he just pardons them afterwards?
He replaced people that are there to put a check on presidential power..... because hes the first one to reduce the power of office? nah... thats a lie.


Also Nepotisme;

It makes corruption way to easy to get away with. If your only surrounded by family members, or people with ties to your family, who are fine with your corruption because it en-riches your family, it makes chances of such happending much higher.  This is why there is a anti-nepotism statute, to prevent that from happending.

Guess who has like 30+ members of family or people with ties to his family in the white house?


These are not the actions of "first president since Ford to significantly reduce the power of the office." ,
but a power hungry one, that thinks himself a King/dictator.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 16 July 2020

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JRPGfan said:

He was scarmongering about socialism.

That's not capitalism.

Have you seen the Picture of Ivanka + Trump marketing Goya Beans ?

Heh.  Posting on Twitter supporting a brand of beans is a lot of things.  Fascist doesn't make the list though.

Heck, their point was in favor of free speech (in this case the freedom to say nice things about Trump, but whatever), so it's pretty much the opposite.

Hes reduced the power of the office?

Very much.  Much of the executive branch's focus has been on unwinding regulations.  Even when he could have justifiably taken a more robust stand on the recent virus, the White House has generally defaulted to letting states decide what to do.

Then howcome anyone thats critical of him, gets replaced?

Are you under the impression that presidents make a habit of accepting in-house criticism?

Any investigation into him is stopped?

Oookay.  I'll just ignore the Mueller investigation, and the impeachment fiasco, and the New York investigation you'll mention in the next sentence.

What investigation into himself has he stopped?

Hes supoena'd for tax returns (law says hand them over) for a investigation and he doesnt?

That was literally just remanded by the Supreme Court to a lower court for further arguments last week.

Look how many people broke the law for him, and he just pardons them afterwards?

I'll grant you the Stone thing was ugly.  That's maybe one.

He's the only pardon or commutation for someone convicted since he's been in office, so he'd be the only one.

I'll also toss down a marker that I dislike the power to pardon in general.

He replaced people that are there to put a check on presidential power..... because hes the first one to reduce the power of office? nah... thats a lie.

Who the heck did he replace who puts a check on presidential power?  Can't be anyone in the executive branch because that's not their job.  Can't be the legislature, because he's doesn't control that branch.

So, what?  Judges?  That wouldn't be an expansion of power.

Probably not what you meant, but you seem to think that the president is subordinate to people in the executive branch, and I can't think of any president that would agree with that notion.

Also Nepotisme;

Who outside of Ivanka and Kushner are you talking about?  Both of them only hold advisor titles.

Oh, and I guess technically Melania, but I assume the Office of the First Lady doesn't count.

These are not the actions of "first president since Ford to significantly reduce the power of the office." ,
but a power hungry one, that thinks himself a King/dictator.

Again, the White House under Trump has been unusually passive in controlling stuff.

You're focused on reasons you don't like Trump.  Fair enough, but even if he's crooked as can be, it doesn't make him a fascist.  The two concepts are hardly synonymous.  He'd actually have to, y'know, exert control over the populace and suppress the opposition to gain that title.

Posing with some beans does not a fascist make.

And again I ask, what the heck does any of this have to do with capitalism?



A social democracy is not socialism,most countries in Europe have a social democracy.



Dante9 said:
Everybody should be afraid of socialism, it has a tendency to turn nations into tyrannical dystopias if taken to its fullest expression.
Government funded health systems in themselves are a good thing for the people, as long as the overarching economy remains capitalistic. This kind of system is very costly, however, and it cannot be sustained without heavy taxation.

Not us, especially about how to handle the covid-19 pandemic, in fact, we are more scared if we were from a different country. You can check the worldometer-coronavirus about Vietnam.



Socialism is another word which means “government control of society’s infrastructure”. Since government is so trustworthy and efficient, people are foolish to be fearful of of socialism.

What this thread is referring to is socialized medicine. Not blanket socialism. Give government an inch and they won’t take more than it needs. So I say go for it. Doctors were so expensive for our ancestors before insurance.

Tax 30% of our personal earnings and think of how much more we’ll save compared to now!



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Because eye-watering debt from student loans and healthcare makes you more free!



snyps said:
Socialism is another word which means “government control of society’s infrastructure”. Since government is so trustworthy and efficient, people are foolish to be fearful of of socialism.

What this thread is referring to is socialized medicine. Not blanket socialism. Give government an inch and they won’t take more than it needs. So I say go for it. Doctors were so expensive for our ancestors before insurance.

Tax 30% of our personal earnings and think of how much more we’ll save compared to now!

Where did you learn that from?



They are not afraid of socialism, the problem is that the word socialism is being used in a wrong way by both conservatives and liberals and the hard left. This is for another discussion but I think the hard left uses it in a wrong way in purpose.
Ask any american and most of them will agree that the tax money should be used in a socialized way paying for the police, firefighters, road constructions etc etc. Nobody would be against it, even libertarian will accept at least some structure of state.
Americans are by definition very individualists and this is not a bad thing, it's just the way they are and it definitely helped the country to be the mammoth they are today. So when you tell them their tax money will be used to pay for other people's medical bills because this person, for whatever reason, dont have insurance, they will be against it. Tell them their money will be used to give money for people that dont work and dont help society and they will be against it. They have a very "you should be responsible for yourself" attitude and culture. It's not bad, it's just their culture.
Then, when you throw the word socialism in it, it just makes things worse as by definition, socialism would imply a revolution in the country and getting rid of capitalism, including a people's dictatorship. The left need to stop using the word socialism and just talk about increased participation of state in the society with increase in taxes., etc.
As for universal health care, all I can say is careful what you wish. There are exceptions, but state funded health care will never be as good as private, and I can tell you by first hand, it is much worse and usually takes away your right of decision.



@NightlyPoe

Unwinding environmental regulations isn't reducing the power of the presidency.  You are full of shit if you think trump has relinquished any power of the presidency which has only grown in the past decades.

Let me give you one example of him overstepping the "boundaries" of the power of the president.  Take his stupid wall.  Congress has the power of the purse and decides where money is spent.  Congress didn't give him the money he wanted for his wall even after shutting down the government for a couple weeks so he has the department of defense pull money away from other programs to fund his wall.

If you want more examples then I'll gladly give you more.

Last edited by sethnintendo - on 16 July 2020

Dante9 said:
Everybody should be afraid of socialism, it has a tendency to turn nations into tyrannical dystopias if taken to its fullest expression.
Government funded health systems in themselves are a good thing for the people, as long as the overarching economy remains capitalistic. This kind of system is very costly, however, and it cannot be sustained without heavy taxation.