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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Phil Spencer confident after seeing PS5 presentation - Gamelab 2020 interview

 

How do you think MS will perform at the July presentation?

MS will be in a league of its own 5 6.25%
 
MS will do better than the PS5 presentation 14 17.50%
 
MS will do as good as the PS5 presentation 13 16.25%
 
MS will do less well than... 48 60.00%
 
Total:80
vivster on 28 June 2020
errorpwns said:
vivster said:
It seems like Microsoft is very much content with their eternal 3rd place. Good for them. No reason to push yourself when you're already happy.

Willing to wager they made more off xbox live + 360 than Sony did with the PS3. Not to mention their other markets.

They may be 3rd place overall, but they weren't 3rd every gen.

Good for them.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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SvennoJ on 28 June 2020
Angelus said:
SvennoJ said:

About 3 years late.

They are being build with the limiting factor that they have to be scaled down to run on Series S, XB1 X, XB1 X, XB1, and low end PC hardware. The very fact they can't rely on an SSD already limits design choices.

Even after the cross-gen period, the games still need to be able to run on PC from HDD with different controllers and also be possible to run on the low end Lockhart.

I guess there better not be any Series X games that are technically superior to the top end PS5 games then. Would be a bad look if the console that's being held back by last gen ends up outflexing the console that's completely unshackled from any such burdens.

There are always different goal posts to measure against. Technically superior in some ways is bound to happen. However I did not go from PC gaming to console gaming for the best resolution and frame rates. I swapped because consoles offered the best tailor made experiences, optimized for tv screens, surround systems and one default control method (or a limited few when motion controls entered)

I feel MS is trying to be jack of all trades while I'm looking for those tailor made games, optimized and designed around the particular setup its intended for. Hence I also mentioned HL: Alyx being 3 years late. It's trying to please too many different control schemes and configurations, not really exploring what's possible with the index controller since it also has to work on more limited controllers.

There's a reason why RTS and management sims don't thrive on consoles and why big screen games don't translate well to handhelds or why pancake games are hard to port to VR. Sitting 2 feet from a monitor is an inherently different experience from sitting 12 ft from a big screen tv, and totally different from wearing a headset. Since console and PC have become intertwined font size has been my biggest annoyance in modern games. At least modern tvs don't have the overscan problem anymore where part of the HUD disappears (still a problem when I use my PC on my projector)

It's more than just powah. Interface differences are at least half of it. Designing a game to work with KB+Mouse, new controllers and legacy controllers already puts restrictions on games. Then it needs to look good 2ft from a monitor as well as 12 ft from a tv while keeping the text readable etc.

Custom fit games for custom made hardware, that's why I went with consoles. With MS I might as well be playing their games on my gaming laptop (which I have done this gen) All for $1 so win win I guess. MS another number to boast their game pass stats, I saved about $2000 this gen on Xbox HW+games :)



SvennoJ on 28 June 2020
zero129 said:
SvennoJ said:

They have to design games that run on all of the above instead of maximizing the capabilities of the Series X.

Does PSNow effect Sony development?.

They can develop the game for Series X an scale down as needed. Like i said you know about scaling in engines so why are you sounding more and more like Goopy in each thread?.

Is Sony developing games for PS Now? Was PS Now even a thing when the games running on it now were made?

I know about scaling and I know about the limitations having to make stuff scale-able imposes. I know the benefits of hard coding as much as possible first hand, and the extra complexity and overhead that comes from making everything scale-able.


padib said:
SvennoJ said:

They have to design games that run on all of the above instead of maximizing the capabilities of the Series X.

Hey man, I'll just reply here instead of your first quote-reply.

I think that MS is putting some mechanisms and systems in place to minimize the effort required in supporting it all. For example, to have games play accross various platforms may not necessarily affect dev time in a dramatic way if their development engine is capable of scaling to different consoles and platforms (PC, cloud). After all, this is MS, they have been in the field of hardware and software development systems for years.

They made Visual Studio, Blend, the Surface line, MSNLive, Hotmail, Windows, DirectX, and many more. It's these guys' profession to create integrated systems, and they've proved it in the past, by execution and success, with Xbox Live, Xbox Live Arcade, DirectX integration into the Xbox, cross-development programmer interfaces since the first Xbox. So this is part of their nature and a part of their path going forward and I doubt it will affect the progress of the development of their games. Rather, with increased distribution, customer engagement and development effort, I believe their studios have more reason than ever to be focused to create great experiences for many different people.

And I've had first hand experience with most of those you mentioned and many problems lol. Not a good track record.
Not saying Linux or Apple is better, nightmare pairing an iPhone with iTunes on Windows or even using an iPhone 11.

What I am saying is, keep all that crap away from the console experience.

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 28 June 2020

COKTOE on 28 June 2020
errorpwns said:
vivster said:
It seems like Microsoft is very much content with their eternal 3rd place. Good for them. No reason to push yourself when you're already happy.

Willing to wager they made more off xbox live + 360 than Sony did with the PS3. Not to mention their other markets.

They may be 3rd place overall, but they weren't 3rd every gen.

Given the cost of RROD, I doubt Xbox had much better profit than Sony last gen.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

kirby007 on 28 June 2020
SvennoJ said:
Angelus said:

I guess there better not be any Series X games that are technically superior to the top end PS5 games then. Would be a bad look if the console that's being held back by last gen ends up outflexing the console that's completely unshackled from any such burdens.

There are always different goal posts to measure against. Technically superior in some ways is bound to happen. However I did not go from PC gaming to console gaming for the best resolution and frame rates. I swapped because consoles offered the best tailor made experiences, optimized for tv screens, surround systems and one default control method (or a limited few when motion controls entered)

I feel MS is trying to be jack of all trades while I'm looking for those tailor made games, optimized and designed around the particular setup its intended for. Hence I also mentioned HL: Alyx being 3 years late. It's trying to please too many different control schemes and configurations, not really exploring what's possible with the index controller since it also has to work on more limited controllers.

There's a reason why RTS and management sims don't thrive on consoles and why big screen games don't translate well to handhelds or why pancake games are hard to port to VR. Sitting 2 feet from a monitor is an inherently different experience from sitting 12 ft from a big screen tv, and totally different from wearing a headset. Since console and PC have become intertwined font size has been my biggest annoyance in modern games. At least modern tvs don't have the overscan problem anymore where part of the HUD disappears (still a problem when I use my PC on my projector)

It's more than just powah. Interface differences are at least half of it. Designing a game to work with KB+Mouse, new controllers and legacy controllers already puts restrictions on games. Then it needs to look good 2ft from a monitor as well as 12 ft from a tv while keeping the text readable etc.

Custom fit games for custom made hardware, that's why I went with consoles. With MS I might as well be playing their games on my gaming laptop (which I have done this gen) All for $1 so win win I guess. MS another number to boast their game pass stats, I saved about $2000 this gen on Xbox HW+games :)

So end of story MS wins, you win, why still mad?



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

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SvennoJ on 28 June 2020
kirby007 said:
SvennoJ said:

There are always different goal posts to measure against. Technically superior in some ways is bound to happen. However I did not go from PC gaming to console gaming for the best resolution and frame rates. I swapped because consoles offered the best tailor made experiences, optimized for tv screens, surround systems and one default control method (or a limited few when motion controls entered)

I feel MS is trying to be jack of all trades while I'm looking for those tailor made games, optimized and designed around the particular setup its intended for. Hence I also mentioned HL: Alyx being 3 years late. It's trying to please too many different control schemes and configurations, not really exploring what's possible with the index controller since it also has to work on more limited controllers.

There's a reason why RTS and management sims don't thrive on consoles and why big screen games don't translate well to handhelds or why pancake games are hard to port to VR. Sitting 2 feet from a monitor is an inherently different experience from sitting 12 ft from a big screen tv, and totally different from wearing a headset. Since console and PC have become intertwined font size has been my biggest annoyance in modern games. At least modern tvs don't have the overscan problem anymore where part of the HUD disappears (still a problem when I use my PC on my projector)

It's more than just powah. Interface differences are at least half of it. Designing a game to work with KB+Mouse, new controllers and legacy controllers already puts restrictions on games. Then it needs to look good 2ft from a monitor as well as 12 ft from a tv while keeping the text readable etc.

Custom fit games for custom made hardware, that's why I went with consoles. With MS I might as well be playing their games on my gaming laptop (which I have done this gen) All for $1 so win win I guess. MS another number to boast their game pass stats, I saved about $2000 this gen on Xbox HW+games :)

So end of story MS wins, you win, why still mad?

Who says I'm mad? I'm just not excited for the Series X just because of 12tf. I would be if MS committed fully to the Series X without all the distractions like they did with the XBox and the early years of the 360.



goopy20 on 28 June 2020
zero129 said:
hinch said:

That's not how game development works. You go from the ground up not port down.

Yeah only a few weeks to go. Can't wait to see what they have in store.

The Countless games thats been ported to the switch such as Witcher 3 etc.

Its also been knowing for some time and has been said time and time again Including in that link i gave that XBSX is the main platform of development for halo Inf.

I'm just curious, but what do you expect the pc requirements of Halo Infinite be like when its on Xbox One too? Yes, Series X will have the best possible version running in 4k/60fps and ray tracing effects, but the core game (level design, geometry, assets variation, ai, physics etc.) has to run on the Xbox One and average pc's with a HDD too.

It can still look great and they've been working on it for years so it should be a good game. But fact remains, ps5 exclusives like HZD2 can do a lot more with the ps5's hardware when they don't have to think about other platforms.



SvennoJ on 28 June 2020
zero129 said:
hinch said:

That's not how game development works. You go from the ground up not port down.

Yeah only a few weeks to go. Can't wait to see what they have in store.

The Countless games thats been ported to the switch such as Witcher 3 etc.

Its also been knowing for some time and has been said time and time again Including in that link i gave that XBSX is the main platform of development for halo Inf.

And how does The Witcher 3 port stand up against BotW...

The Witcher 3 had a lot of issues on ps4, proving my point exactly

For example, here I'm inside the inn, waiting for the inn to show up.



hinch on 28 June 2020
sales2099 said:
hinch said:

That's not how game development works. You go from the ground up not port down.

Yeah only a few weeks to go. Can't wait to see what they have in store.

https://twitter.com/xcloudtimdog/status/1276173499028078592?s=21

Plus Hellblade and Witcher 3 on Switch kinda disprove the theory. Far easier to port down then build up. 

They are cross developing on multiple platforms. The base code has to run on Xbox One.



sales2099 on 28 June 2020
hinch said:
sales2099 said:

https://twitter.com/xcloudtimdog/status/1276173499028078592?s=21

Plus Hellblade and Witcher 3 on Switch kinda disprove the theory. Far easier to port down then build up. 

They are cross developing on multiple platforms. The base code has to run on Xbox One.

No question. I imagine Xbox One will have lesser graphical fidelity and textures, no ray tracing, lesser draw distances, lower resolution and FPS. More loading times and pop in. Probably will be gimped in terms of AI and number of characters on screen. Sure the base game is there but like Witcher 3 on Switch I’m sure they will do all the cutbacks necessary to make it fit. 

Really looking forward to Digital Foundry when they make the inevitable comparison between the two 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.