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Forums - Politics Discussion - (POSSIBLE SPOILERS INSIDE) The agenda and political discussion of Naughty Dog

 

Have politics damaged the quality of ND games

No 39 41.94%
 
Yes 54 58.06%
 
Total:93
Alara317 on 20 July 2020
Zoombael said:
Alara317 said:

I just skimmed the last 10 pages or so of this thread (What a goddamn mess that was) and I have to say...dude, you should probably stop. IT's clear the one with the agenda here is YOU, not Neil or anyone else. YOU are the one clearly intending to disrupt what you perceive as slights against traditional gender roles. It's YOU who seems to have a problem with counterbalancing in the medium (by including more women to make up for the relative lack of women in the past). YOU are the one pushing an agenda, and it's kinda gross, to be honest. 

Are you saying they'll counterbalance the lack of colored people in the future. They haven't counterbalanced up to this point, so i expect to see a lotta non-caucasian AAA single player protagonists. Man, this is going to be an epic counterbalance.

I certainly hope so, but given the backlash games get any time they even TRY to be progressive I imagine that might not be for a while. 

And there's no need to act like diversity isn't good enough if it isn't ALL diversity. I agree we should definitely get more people of colour in games (like, duh, white people are only like 30% of the worldwide population but like 95% of the worldwide protagonists....because most games are made in the US or Europe, I imagine), but it doesn't help your cause to devalue what progress we HAVE made just becuase it's not in the direction you want. All steps forward are good steps, even if they're baby steps. 



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Alara317 on 20 July 2020
the-pi-guy said:

I just want to preface this first. This isn't directed at any one in this thread, it was more of a response to some reddit threads that I read following the game. And if you feel that some of my criticisms are pointed at things you posted in this thread, I hope that instead of getting bothered, that you'll put some real thought into what I've said, why you actually feel the way you do about the game.

Spoiler!

The only thing I knew about the game going into it was that there was a transgender character, and that there was some outrage over a scene.  

So I played through, clocked about 22 hours of the game wondering what kind of scene would trigger the outrage.  I got to the end and was incredibly confused. The whole time I was basically waiting for some kind of scene where a character gets a sex change right on screen, instead I thought it was the biggest nothing to ever get outraged against. I had been avoiding all spoilers, because I wanted to experience the entire game.  I did not even watch most of the trailer that were put out.  I only watched the ones shown at E3.  And I quickly played through the game to join the conversation about the game.  

And the conversation has been ridiculously disappointing.  The game has a lot of flaws.  It's weirdly the best incredibly flawed game I've ever played. Some of my favorite games, I have a really hard time thinking of any real flaws with them.  Not that they're perfect, but to me they're so darn close, they might as well be perfect games.  Bloodborne, Uncharted 2, the original Last of Us, there's nothing I'd change about those games.  This game on the other hand to me feels like it has a lot of flaws, and yet I'd rate it almost as highly as those games.  Which is crazy.  

It was overly long I felt.  And it was a bit jarring to go back between very long flashbacks, and very long present day gameplay.  I think the game would have felt better by cutting out a day for both characters.  I think it would have felt better if some of the flashbacks were replaced by more shorter lighter hearted moments in the game.  

There are other problems that weren't as big of a deal to me, but some brought it up.  Basically the game makes you feel bad for things that weren't your fault.  

It's been frustrating, because there's a lot to discuss with the game.  There's flaws to talk about.  There are design choices to talk about.  And yet a fair amount of dialogue is about things that didn't even happen in the game.  Like Abby isn't trans, and she's never suggested in the game to be as such.  I watched the first 10 minutes of the Angry Joe review, and he started complaining about things that never happened.  

It's been frustrating, because people are complaining about the mere existence of certain kinds of characters.  LGBT isn't a political position.  Strong women isn't a political position.  They're people.  They're just people.  Some of those people want to be represented somehow.  A lot of people just want diverse characters and stories. I honestly have no clue, how some people can basically imply that buff women are a political agenda, without face palming themselves.  

Imagine if someone said "The Last of Us 2 is pushing a conservative agenda, because it glorifies guns as a life saving tool. It also pushes out how important it is to have that right to defend yourself.  

Skyrim is pushing a conservative agenda by having a semi-capitalistic society, and represents a proud almost patriotic group of white people who are fighting off their oppressors just like us Americans did in 1776.  

The magic bit here is that if you go into any game trying to find an agenda, if you're clever enough, chances are pretty good that you'll be able to argue that the agenda you expected is actually there.  

Even more frustrating is that every time a diverse character like I talked about previously exists, people demand that their existence be justified somehow.  As if character traits have to be justified somehow.  "why is this character male, that needs to be justified"  Even more frustratingly this game literally went to lengths to justify the characters.  Lev being transgender was part of his story.  Abby being buff was part of her story.  They weren't just token characters who were just thrown into a regular story to check off some boxes.  And yet the outrage was worse than ever.  So apparently the issue wasn't that these characters weren't justified.  

And frankly even if buff women was part of some kind of liberal agenda.  Why do you think that pixels on a screen is worth getting upset over?

Well said from beginning to end. I do have to ask though: Why are liberal 'agendas' considered bad or unsavoury? In my experience (and keep in mind I'm Canadian, not American), liberals stand for progress, inclusion, equality, and acceptance. These are the sort of agendas we SHOULD be fighting for and history has told us WILL prevail. All the current political discourse in the world (BLM, Neo Nazis in America, pretty much everything Trump says or does, etc) boils down to having that last pocket of ignorant bigots crying VERY loudly about their values no longer being accepted and trying their best to not go down without a fight. Racism, sexism, xenophobia...they're dwindling but you'd never know it becuase the people fighting FOR those things are louder and more aggressive than ever. We're more tolerant and accepting of interracial relationships and integration and LGBT+ Rights than we've ever been over in the western world...but the people who find those values to be 'wrong' or whatever are in their death knell and will continue to do so for as long as there's bigotry in this world.

Honestly, I am not looking forward to the next few years. it's going to get worse, becuase entitled, privileged, straight white people feel threatened by the encroachment of...you know, social progress. When you're in power like that, balance and equality feels like oppression. Not gonna be fun. 

So yeah, Liberal agendas are good. We need more of them because conservative agendas usually are "HOO RAH GUNS!" or traditionalist or regressive or bigoted. that's not even just my liberal brain speaking, that's observable truth. Modern conservatives stand for regressive beliefs, not progressive beliefs. their entire political standpoint seems to be held up by the idea that all this liberal progress is ruining the world....and it's just not. Their view on progress is provably wrong, but good luck convincing them of that...hence why they fight so loud, are so aggressively resistant, and call out 'fake news' whenever pesky facts interfere with their feelings. 



Runa216 on 20 July 2020

it is in fact rather shocking how far people will go to justify their hate for something. Like, seriously.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

DonFerrari on 20 July 2020
Alara317 said:
Zoombael said:

Are you saying they'll counterbalance the lack of colored people in the future. They haven't counterbalanced up to this point, so i expect to see a lotta non-caucasian AAA single player protagonists. Man, this is going to be an epic counterbalance.

I certainly hope so, but given the backlash games get any time they even TRY to be progressive I imagine that might not be for a while. 

And there's no need to act like diversity isn't good enough if it isn't ALL diversity. I agree we should definitely get more people of colour in games (like, duh, white people are only like 30% of the worldwide population but like 95% of the worldwide protagonists....because most games are made in the US or Europe, I imagine), but it doesn't help your cause to devalue what progress we HAVE made just becuase it's not in the direction you want. All steps forward are good steps, even if they're baby steps. 

I for one would love if Sony was bold enough to fund an AAA studio in Africa, one in South America and one in Asia outside China/Japan and have they tell tales from those places with all Indigenous, or all black, all Asian people in the cast. I would certainly buy a well made game based in some folklore of Africa (told by African), or by the native indigenous of Peru/Brazil/etc... and perhaps in the case of South America since very few still hold tradition and also would be a game developer at least hear they very through and make the game based on it. I have no problem with my weapons being limited to arch, spear and some rock slinging.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Lonely_Dolphin on 20 July 2020
Alara317 said:

Well said from beginning to end. I do have to ask though: Why are liberal 'agendas' considered bad or unsavoury? In my experience (and keep in mind I'm Canadian, not American), liberals stand for progress, inclusion, equality, and acceptance. These are the sort of agendas we SHOULD be fighting for and history has told us WILL prevail. All the current political discourse in the world (BLM, Neo Nazis in America, pretty much everything Trump says or does, etc) boils down to having that last pocket of ignorant bigots crying VERY loudly about their values no longer being accepted and trying their best to not go down without a fight. Racism, sexism, xenophobia...they're dwindling but you'd never know it becuase the people fighting FOR those things are louder and more aggressive than ever. We're more tolerant and accepting of interracial relationships and integration and LGBT+ Rights than we've ever been over in the western world...but the people who find those values to be 'wrong' or whatever are in their death knell and will continue to do so for as long as there's bigotry in this world.

Honestly, I am not looking forward to the next few years. it's going to get worse, becuase entitled, privileged, straight white people feel threatened by the encroachment of...you know, social progress. When you're in power like that, balance and equality feels like oppression. Not gonna be fun. 

So yeah, Liberal agendas are good. We need more of them because conservative agendas usually are "HOO RAH GUNS!" or traditionalist or regressive or bigoted. that's not even just my liberal brain speaking, that's observable truth. Modern conservatives stand for regressive beliefs, not progressive beliefs. their entire political standpoint seems to be held up by the idea that all this liberal progress is ruining the world....and it's just not. Their view on progress is provably wrong, but good luck convincing them of that...hence why they fight so loud, are so aggressively resistant, and call out 'fake news' whenever pesky facts interfere with their feelings. 

Who are these people you're talking about exactly? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt as surely you can't actually mean all straight white people. Racism, sexism, and just being an ass in general isn't exclusive to them, see Nick Cannon's latest nonsense. Now you say these voices are so loud but I haven't heard them, certainly not aware of how they're being aggressive. Of course I've seen racist comments (and I mean real ones, not just opinions I don't like), but very few and generally from random nobodies with no power. It's possible I'm just very lucky/ignorant though, so that's why I ask to be shown examples.



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Runa216 on 20 July 2020
Lonely_Dolphin said:
Alara317 said:

Well said from beginning to end. I do have to ask though: Why are liberal 'agendas' considered bad or unsavoury? In my experience (and keep in mind I'm Canadian, not American), liberals stand for progress, inclusion, equality, and acceptance. These are the sort of agendas we SHOULD be fighting for and history has told us WILL prevail. All the current political discourse in the world (BLM, Neo Nazis in America, pretty much everything Trump says or does, etc) boils down to having that last pocket of ignorant bigots crying VERY loudly about their values no longer being accepted and trying their best to not go down without a fight. Racism, sexism, xenophobia...they're dwindling but you'd never know it becuase the people fighting FOR those things are louder and more aggressive than ever. We're more tolerant and accepting of interracial relationships and integration and LGBT+ Rights than we've ever been over in the western world...but the people who find those values to be 'wrong' or whatever are in their death knell and will continue to do so for as long as there's bigotry in this world.

Honestly, I am not looking forward to the next few years. it's going to get worse, becuase entitled, privileged, straight white people feel threatened by the encroachment of...you know, social progress. When you're in power like that, balance and equality feels like oppression. Not gonna be fun. 

So yeah, Liberal agendas are good. We need more of them because conservative agendas usually are "HOO RAH GUNS!" or traditionalist or regressive or bigoted. that's not even just my liberal brain speaking, that's observable truth. Modern conservatives stand for regressive beliefs, not progressive beliefs. their entire political standpoint seems to be held up by the idea that all this liberal progress is ruining the world....and it's just not. Their view on progress is provably wrong, but good luck convincing them of that...hence why they fight so loud, are so aggressively resistant, and call out 'fake news' whenever pesky facts interfere with their feelings. 

Who are these people you're talking about exactly? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt as surely you can't actually mean all straight white people. Racism, sexism, and just being an ass in general isn't exclusive to them, see Nick Cannon's latest nonsense. Now you say these voices are so loud but I haven't heard them, certainly not aware of how they're being aggressive. Of course I've seen racist comments (and I mean real ones, not just opinions I don't like), but very few and generally from random nobodies with no power. It's possible I'm just very lucky/ignorant though, so that's why I ask to be shown examples.

Are you serious right now? I mean, pretty much everything in our modern political discourse has shown just how loud and aggressive bigots are being to justify their bigotry. You'd have to be willfully ignorant or woefully blind to not see what she means by her statements. Seriously, it's like someone said 'the sky is blue' and you're saying 'prove it' or 'that's not what I see'.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Zoombael on 21 July 2020
Alara317 said:
Zoombael said:

Are you saying they'll counterbalance the lack of colored people in the future. They haven't counterbalanced up to this point, so i expect to see a lotta non-caucasian AAA single player protagonists. Man, this is going to be an epic counterbalance.

I certainly hope so, but given the backlash games get any time they even TRY to be progressive I imagine that might not be for a while. 

And there's no need to act like diversity isn't good enough if it isn't ALL diversity. I agree we should definitely get more people of colour in games (like, duh, white people are only like 30% of the worldwide population but like 95% of the worldwide protagonists....because most games are made in the US or Europe, I imagine), but it doesn't help your cause to devalue what progress we HAVE made just becuase it's not in the direction you want. All steps forward are good steps, even if they're baby steps. 

How many games got backlash for 'trying' to be progressive? Any time, every game? Every game with a white female protagonist? Got Senuas Sacrifice backlash? I don't remember, but it must have if you say so. Metacritic disagrees. Or is it not trying enough when handling the delicate subject of mental disorder? Did the Dragon Age and Mass Effect series receive backlash for optional gay relationships? Is Miles Morales being blacklashed?

What i constantly witness though is a screeching mob when supposed injustice occurs and the game is perceived not progressive enough.

As it happened recently.

https://www.ccn.com/far-cry-6-reveal-gives-us-another-reason-to-cancel-ubisoft/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXM9M_kFVHs

Backlash for Ubisoft not trying enough:

https://www.mcvuk.com/business-news/backlash-to-forced-romance-in-assassins-creed-odyssey-dlc-has-been-a-learning-experience-says-ubisoft/

What is next? Backlash against God Of War because a greek dude is voiced by Christopher Judge, a man with african and native american ancestry? The second person of color to give Kratos a voice. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree. What matters is the dominating consenus, aka social media echo and gaming press influencer, and how it affects the medium and respective companies, who undoubtetly develop countermeassures to protect their investments, e.g. by taking control of the narrative.

"because most games are made in the US or Europe, I imagine"

Most videogame hardware and software is sold in regions which happen to be predominantly white. White males, white females. Go figure how much non-white skin we're going to see in the future in the tripple A segment. Not significantly less or more than in the olden days. I don't mind that, when i see how hamfisted companies treating the subject and how "progressors" flip and creating drama at every slight misstep. What they perceive as misstep.

Let's hypothesize: The main market for consoles is Africa, consumers predominantly black. You think the skin color of protagonists wouldn't represent the appearance of the target audience?

You're saying counterbalancing today to make up for the lack of women in videogames in the past. What justifies this? There were no 50% female gamers in the past and the proclaimed 50% of today are doubtful.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding Tlou2. Do you believe, if it wasn't for all the "progressiveness" (even though Ellie had her coming out years ago), there'd be no backlash including death threats? 

Why did the follwing happen then?

Walking Dead star Jeffrey Dean Morgan says he gets DEATH THREATS over Negan role

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/tv/the-walking-dead-season-negan-14536724

Or was it in actuallity because of the gay couples in the TWD series, not the severe headache inducing violence done to beloved characters?

Other TWD actors got media attention for receiving death threats. Alanna Masterson who played the lesbian Tara, was also harassed online. Funny enough, according to her own account not for embodying a homosexual or being a scientologist in real life. 

https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/news/the-walking-dead-actors-death-threats/

By no means is this an attempt to relitivize such behavior. However, your kind desperatly seeks justification to have this elevating feeling of righteousness. Everyone who is not happy with tlou2 is a bigot, homophobe, misogynist. Simply because they don't agree, regardless of how objectively flawed the game is. This is the overruling consesus.

Remember the tweet (or whatever) by Druckman showing selected comments with antisemitic/antigay slurs? These few selected lines are the overruling consensus. Nothing else.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"So yeah, Liberal agendas are good. We need more of them because conservative agendas usually are "HOO RAH GUNS!" or traditionalist or regressive or bigoted."

The problem with that, there is only one group who forces their political agenda and wants to make it a prerequisit in videogames. There is no big push for neonazi, rascism, bigot sandwich maker and sexism games and there never was. Compared to the political dumpsterfire of today videogames once really were diverse.

Social politics n stuff, media focusing on moral 'n ethics seem to have an easy time with critics. Meaning, even when heavily flawed the media piece is reviewed  favorably soley based on its theme, not it's actual substance.

What goes for Movie&TV will apply to videogames...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"All the current political discourse in the world (BLM, Neo Nazis in America, pretty much everything Trump says or does, etc)"

I am US-american/german, black&white and i live in Germany. I wouldn't want to live in the US seeing how north-americans act all PC crazy. Unfortunatly the madness has spread. In Germany it's considered racist now to ask someone where he or she is originally from. It never bothered me, and others i know, but those times are over. Guess now i have to reply with "That's racist!"

"All the current political discourse in the world (BLM, Neo Nazis in America, pretty much everything Trump says or does, etc) boils down to having that last pocket of ignorant bigots crying VERY loudly about their values no longer being accepted and trying their best to not go down without a fight."

To achieve this goal by conforming or exterminating any opposing videogame and franchise. How pleasant. This will certainly do the trick. Gonna be maximum diversity.



Hunting Season is done...

Lonely_Dolphin on 26 July 2020
Runa216 said:

Are you serious right now? I mean, pretty much everything in our modern political discourse has shown just how loud and aggressive bigots are being to justify their bigotry. You'd have to be willfully ignorant or woefully blind to not see what she means by her statements. Seriously, it's like someone said 'the sky is blue' and you're saying 'prove it' or 'that's not what I see'.

Yes I am serious. If what you say is true, should be easy to provide examples.

the-pi-guy said:

Because both sides are exactly the same.  

I don't believe I had made such an assertion.  

Spoiler!

It wasn't about Joel's death happening or not.  He lied about what happened before Joel's death.  

He had a skit where they satirized Joel and Tommy handing out all kinds of information like guard routes.  When the reality is they basically gave two pieces of information.  One was their names, and one was a nondescript "we live down the hill".  Which is practically a polite nonanswer to "do you live around here?"  Tommy was the one who pushed Joel into giving his name.  While Joel is very suspicious of the crew, Tommy is being friendly.  Which are their characters.  

That all depends on how you conduct yourself.

Jim Sterling had a harsh review, and no one is calling him a homophobe.

I will say if you're not being direct about what you're actually thinking, then some people are going to assume the worst.  

Which again, are related.  It's relatable for some people to see someone be ostracized for being transgender.  It can be inspiring for someone to see that person rise above their challenges.  

Being alive and being human can make for a good character.  But the absolute best characters, they're the ones you relate with on a deeper level.  Whether it's something silly like liking the same book.  Or whether it's looking the same or going through the same challenges.  

There are entire categories of memes and groups that are dedicated to struggles. 

This isn't a controversial subject.  People relate better to the things that they do, or the people that they are. That should be an obvious concept.

So why not be better instead of inciting and participating in more discussion that isn't about the game itself?

My mistake, you definitely did not say that anywhere, twas purely my bias making me think that was the implication. Still if you do believe that isn't true, why even make these post? Just discuss the game with people if that's truly what you want. There will always be discussions involving identity politics with any popular piece of entertainment, and you can always ignore them.

That all depends on what people feel like, how direct and clear you are be damned. If I call you a racist right now, would you say it must be because of your conduct? No it's because I'm stupid lul. Simply saying you don't like TLOU2 in a more aggressive or impolite way doesn't suddenly make you racist. Making biased assumptions when you lack information isn't an excuse for false accusations either.

Are there not characters you relate with that don't have the same appearance and sexuality as you, or characters that do but you don't relate with? Sure are for me, and as far as I can tell, that can only be explained by appearance and sexuality not mattering for relatability.



Lonely_Dolphin on 27 July 2020
the-pi-guy said:

>So why not be better instead of inciting and participating in more discussion that isn't about the game itself?

Because I'm responding to the discussion.  You're equating inventing a bad discussion with responding to a bad discussion, when they aren't the same.

>That all depends on what people feel like, how direct and clear you are be damned. If I call you a racist right now, would you say it must be because of your conduct? No it's because I'm stupid lul. Simply saying you don't like TLOU2 in a more aggressive or impolite way doesn't suddenly make you racist. Making biased assumptions when you lack information isn't an excuse for false accusations either.

I wasn't defending that people made the comments.  I'm just explaining that it's common for people to be wrongfully nasty when they make assumptions.  

Sure, there's all kinds of reasons why people can connect to someone.  But when you've gone through something due to your looks or your sexuality, it's nice to see experiences that you can relate to.  

I'm suggesting how you can take matters into your own hands. If you just want to vent then that's fine. 

Being ostracized, abused, etc. are not experiences exclusive to any specific appearance/sexuality. I can still understand and relate to Lev's struggle despite our completely different identities if you can believe it for example. Frankly identity just doesn't matter at all outside of describing what someone looks like and finding a romantic partner (EDIT: there are more situations but you get what I mean), or rather it shouldn't. Of course it does to some people sadly. You wouldn't define a real person by their looks or sexuality (I hope anyway) so it should be the same with fictional characters too.

I'm also against putting stock in identity because I feel that's probably a common cause for people to get too attached to fictional characters. I'm talking to the point where they see criticism n hate towards that fictional character and their series as a personal attack. It would explain the "if you don't like X you're racist/sexist/etc." logic beyond just being a cheap way to deflect criticism.

Last edited by Lonely_Dolphin - on 27 July 2020

Alara317 on 28 July 2020
Lonely_Dolphin said:
the-pi-guy said:

>So why not be better instead of inciting and participating in more discussion that isn't about the game itself?

Because I'm responding to the discussion.  You're equating inventing a bad discussion with responding to a bad discussion, when they aren't the same.

>That all depends on what people feel like, how direct and clear you are be damned. If I call you a racist right now, would you say it must be because of your conduct? No it's because I'm stupid lul. Simply saying you don't like TLOU2 in a more aggressive or impolite way doesn't suddenly make you racist. Making biased assumptions when you lack information isn't an excuse for false accusations either.

I wasn't defending that people made the comments.  I'm just explaining that it's common for people to be wrongfully nasty when they make assumptions.  

Sure, there's all kinds of reasons why people can connect to someone.  But when you've gone through something due to your looks or your sexuality, it's nice to see experiences that you can relate to.  

I'm suggesting how you can take matters into your own hands. If you just want to vent then that's fine. 

Being ostracized, abused, etc. are not experiences exclusive to any specific appearance/sexuality. I can still understand and relate to Lev's struggle despite our completely different identities if you can believe it for example. Frankly identity just doesn't matter at all outside of describing what someone looks like and finding a romantic partner (EDIT: there are more situations but you get what I mean), or rather it shouldn't. Of course it does to some people sadly. You wouldn't define a real person by their looks or sexuality (I hope anyway) so it should be the same with fictional characters too.

I'm also against putting stock in identity because I feel that's probably a common cause for people to get too attached to fictional characters. I'm talking to the point where they see criticism n hate towards that fictional character and their series as a personal attack. It would explain the "if you don't like X you're racist/sexist/etc." logic beyond just being a cheap way to deflect criticism.

"Anyone can be prejudiced and anyone can be a victim, therefore we shouldn't do anything to stop bigotry or address issues plaguing a minority." Fixed it for ya.

Based on this post alone I don't think you have any interest or willingness to correct your bad behaviour or ignorant opinions on the matter. I get the distinct impression it doesn't matter how much evidence, time, or effort anyone puts into a thorough explanation of the situation will make you realize how ignorant your comments are. You made up your mind already and have no interest in learning or growing.