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Forums - Politics Discussion - J.K. Rowling Writes about Her Reasons for Speaking out on Sex and Gender Issues

jason1637 said:
She doesn't hate trans people or are against their lifestyle. She just has a different opinion than the mainstream so they'll try to cancel her.

A central pillar of that "different opinion" regards what rights trans individuals should or should not have, coupled with a lot of stuff that sounds like the same bigoted dog-whistles that have been blown by those standing in the way of trans rights. It isn't just the opinion that upsets people, it is the effect of this opinion and the actions of people who share these opinions.



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Mnementh said:
JWeinCom said:

Ugh.  I had a whole response to this and my computer crapped out.

To sum it up, JK Rowling is presenting herself as someone who is researched and unbiased.  Yet, she's doing things like citing studies with obvious fundamental flaws in their methodology (the study she cites was conducted by surveying parents on websites with an explicit position against transitioning).  She then characterizes the backlash to this study as "a concerted campaign to discredit both her and her work" without addressing the very valid critique of the work. Now she is promoting the position that peer pressure can cause children to transition.

Essentially Rowling already had her opinion, and sought out data to cherry pick to support it.  Whether her initial position was actually correct, I don't know.  I'm not an expert on gender identity or gender dysphoria which is why I simply shut the fuck up about it beyond my personal opinion (that if someone wants to be identified a certain way I'm happy to do so which I think is simply not being an asshole).  Likewise, (while she shouldn't be threatened), JK Rowling is not an expert, and should shut the fuck about it as well.  And while she certainly has the right to express her opinion, people equally have the right to tell her to shut the fuck up.

While I mostly agree with your post, one thing I want to add: nobody  should shut up with their opinion. Everyone should be open to arguments to the contrary, but don't talking about your opinions doesn't make them go away. So everyone should always feel free to offer their own opinions, but should be prepared to get counter-arguments.

But shutting up only means some people dominate the public discourse while others still have differing opinions - only shutting up. This allows to produce societal divide. Also, simply speaking, if people don't offer their opinion that the moon is made of cheese you never get the idea that you should disprove that notion.

Sometimes letting people speak is the only way to know you should keep the distance from.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

RolStoppable said:
I assume this is an issue of society trying to make absolutely everything normal and acceptable. I saw Hiku's post with the series of comments from Harry Potter actors and actresses, and what stood out is the statement that transgender women are women.

Simply ask yourself if you would draw a line between dating women and transgender women; if you are honest about it, the chance is higher than 99% that you will draw a line. At least I hope I am correct in assuming that 'transgender woman' means that a penis is still attached to such a person.

But in any case, today's outrage culture is about shaming common sense, so it's very, very, very easy to offend people on social media platforms. The world has way too many people who believe that they are doing society a good service by fighting for the presumed interests of minorities.

Not sure what is the consensus, but I have seem considering woman with penis and without. Myself I consider transgender when the genitalia was operated. But there are gender fluids and other stuff.

Even after operation there would still be a very high portion that wouldn't go out with the trans because we are still based on biological need of procreation, so the impossibility of generating an off-spring would make the wish to go out null.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

sundin13 said:
jason1637 said:
She doesn't hate trans people or are against their lifestyle. She just has a different opinion than the mainstream so they'll try to cancel her.

A central pillar of that "different opinion" regards what rights trans individuals should or should not have, coupled with a lot of stuff that sounds like the same bigoted dog-whistles that have been blown by those standing in the way of trans rights. It isn't just the opinion that upsets people, it is the effect of this opinion and the actions of people who share these opinions.

She just has a different opinion on what sex is and what makes a woman. She's never advocated for stripping trans rights or anything of that sort. Im not saying i agree eith her or anything cause honestly I dont cate that much but its its something I always see on Twitter. People have a different opinion thats not necessarily hateful and everyone tries to cancel them because its not what tbe mainstream sees as the proper opinion. 



DonFerrari said:
Hiku said:

Well if a reader feels that they understand something the author is trying to convey, and the world they fall in love with is the embodiment of that, then to later find out that you may have misunderstood a lot of it, that this world you love and influenced your growing up is actually quite different than the one you imagined, then I can see why that can make people sad.

I can certainly understand being displeased by what an author says, but that doesn't really change the story. Be it people that became pissed when she revealed that Dumbledore was gay (certainly there is plenty of hints in the book), or people that get sad that she isn't an advocate for trans people that doesn't change the book.

Actually the interpretation of the book will change each time you read because you have changed as well. But there is a reason to not take opinion of others and even more of celebrities in account, because the only opinion that matters is yourself and at most the ones close that love you.

JWeinCom said:

Dude... look at how much people on this site get upset about things like people disagreeing with them about which video game machine they like best, and how defensive and hostile they can become towards people who like a different video game machine the best.  Or how people literally sometimes stab each other because someone dislikes their favorite sports teams.

People care very deeply when someone attacks something that is part of their identity, even a very trivial part. It's not hard to understand why people may get more upset about someone attacking (in their view at least) something that is a core part of their identity.

I understand it, and agree with you. And would you deny that people that act to this extreme doesn't need professional help to deal with their issues and improve in life?

Obviously not in the examples of people stabbing others, but feeling hurt because a person with significant influence that you perhaps held in high esteem is speaking out against something that's core to your personality... no I don't think that's a sign that one needs professional help.



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Mnementh said:
Hiku said:

Well if a reader feels that they understand something the author is trying to convey, and the world they fall in love with is the embodiment of that, then to later find out that you may have misunderstood a lot of it, that this world you love and influenced your growing up is actually quite different than the one you imagined, then I can see why that can make people sad.

I would argue against it. In my opinion stories were always out of the control of the author once released. If you and the author disagree on what can be seen in the stories, then the author hasn't the higher authority anymore. The author can make opinions clear from the outright, but probably many intentions are more hidden and everyone is free to interpret them. To bring it a bit away from Harry Potter, I would bring up Shakespeare. A modern reader of Shakespeare (or visitor to a play) for sure interprets things differently from what Shakespeare thought about it. That doesn't mean the modern reader is wrong. It just means there is no 'right' interpretation of a workand more importantly nobody owns the right interpretation.

So if you see Harry Potter books in a way and feel now Rownling maybe sees things differently, than your interpretation is still right - for you.

DonFerrari said:
Hiku said:

Well if a reader feels that they understand something the author is trying to convey, and the world they fall in love with is the embodiment of that, then to later find out that you may have misunderstood a lot of it, that this world you love and influenced your growing up is actually quite different than the one you imagined, then I can see why that can make people sad.

I can certainly understand being displeased by what an author says, but that doesn't really change the story. Be it people that became pissed when she revealed that Dumbledore was gay (certainly there is plenty of hints in the book), or people that get sad that she isn't an advocate for trans people that doesn't change the book.

Actually the interpretation of the book will change each time you read because you have changed as well. But there is a reason to not take opinion of others and even more of celebrities in account, because the only opinion that matters is yourself and at most the ones close that love you.

Same reply to you and Mnementh.

I agree that people can view works of fictional art that way. But not everyone sees it that way.
Some people love ambiguous open ended endings like in Inception, where it seems like it's left up to interpretation.
I personally loved that. But then there are people who want to know what 'actually' happened. Because they value the creators vision a lot more than their own, even in situations where the creator wants them to draw their own conclusions.

When an anime studio starts making filler episodes, a portion of the fanbase don't even consider them worth watching, as they are non-canon, etc.

You know there are a lot of people who are passionate about things way more than you and I may be, and for different reasons.
And I don't think there's one 'right' way to look at it. It depends on the work and/or the person.

In some situations I appreciate that it was left for me to decide and I wouldn't ask the author to elaborate.
But there are some situations where I would rather get their answer. (Code Geass for example. And 11 years later, we got it.)

Last edited by Hiku - on 19 June 2020

jason1637 said:
sundin13 said:

A central pillar of that "different opinion" regards what rights trans individuals should or should not have, coupled with a lot of stuff that sounds like the same bigoted dog-whistles that have been blown by those standing in the way of trans rights. It isn't just the opinion that upsets people, it is the effect of this opinion and the actions of people who share these opinions.

She just has a different opinion on what sex is and what makes a woman. She's never advocated for stripping trans rights or anything of that sort. Im not saying i agree eith her or anything cause honestly I dont cate that much but its its something I always see on Twitter. People have a different opinion thats not necessarily hateful and everyone tries to cancel them because its not what tbe mainstream sees as the proper opinion. 

She pretty explicitly advocated for the segregation of "biological" women and trans women when speaking about spaces traditionally segregated by sex (ie bathrooms and changing rooms), as well as supporting legal distinctions between sex and gender. While you could make an argument about whether you think these rights should be granted, you cannot make an argument that this isn't a question of trans rights. It is.



sundin13 said:
jason1637 said:

She just has a different opinion on what sex is and what makes a woman. She's never advocated for stripping trans rights or anything of that sort. Im not saying i agree eith her or anything cause honestly I dont cate that much but its its something I always see on Twitter. People have a different opinion thats not necessarily hateful and everyone tries to cancel them because its not what tbe mainstream sees as the proper opinion. 

She pretty explicitly advocated for the segregation of "biological" women and trans women when speaking about spaces traditionally segregated by sex (ie bathrooms and changing rooms), as well as supporting legal distinctions between sex and gender. While you could make an argument about whether you think these rights should be granted, you cannot make an argument that this isn't a question of trans rights. It is.

But he does not make that argument.



She's a cunt, and likely has always been a cunt. Much of the time when you get to know your heroes, you find out that they're all cunts too.
Even Ralph Fiennes apparently (who played Voldemort in Harry Potter).



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Trans women aren't women. That's why we use the trans-prefix
Trans = NOT eg trans women = NOT a woman

What's so hard to understand?

Sorry (not sorry) if it's offensive but that's reality.



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